2/9/12, 6pm: Valpo @ Cleveland State Game Thread

[valpotx]

No one is saying we are expecting to go to the tourney at this time lol.  Just like Stl said, it is just fun to see our name on the bracket for the first time in 8 years.  Everyone knows it is way too early to consider this, it is just a bit of levity considering we haven't been in so long.  It used to be the expectation in the Mid-Con that we would be going to the tourney.  We know it is a much harder road in the Horizon.

[sectionee]

http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/02/valpo-vs-cleveland-state-pps-results.html
Here are my productivity scores from last night's game.

[crusaderjoe]

Any report yet on Kevin's injury?  My gut tells me he will be unavailable for YSU the way he was limping around.  Also, I read Boggs suffered a concussion--anyone know his status as well?

[vu72]

This story about Richie kind of reaffirms my point about Richie being a different type of big versus Kevin.  Water's say as much in describing Pogue's problems:

Edwards steps up for Valparaiso
By Mark Lazerus 648-3140 or mlazerus@post-trib.com February 9, 2012 11:28PM
ReprintsTweetUpdated: February 10, 2012 2:08AM



CLEVELAND — Cleveland State coach Gary Waters didn't even seem to know Richie Edwards' name.

But he won't soon forget this performance.

With Kevin Van Wijk sidelined by a knee injury, Richie Edwards stepped in and had his third straight monster game, scoring 20 points and hauling in six rebounds in Valparaiso's crucial 59-41 road victory at Cleveland State.

After Ryan Broekhoff opened the game with three 3-pointers, Edwards hit three straight treys of his own as the Crusaders jumped out to a 20-4 lead and never looked back.

Edwards finished 4-of-7 from long range.

"That one kid had 20," Waters said. "He probably only averaged six or eight points a game."

Edwards' early treys took Cleveland State big man Aaron Pogue — who was abused inside for 23 points by Van Wijk in the teams' earlier meeting at the ARC — out of his game, as he was forced to step out and defend along the perimeter."Broekhoff's going to hit some shots — in my estimation, he's the best player in the league," Waters said. "(Number) zero stepping out and hitting shots, now Aaron, who normally would be inside, now this guy's outside shooting the 3. That was deflating. That really was deflating."Less than two weeks ago, Edwards was drawing heavy criticism for getting himself ejected from a big game at Milwaukee with two quick technical fouls. Since then, he's more than atoned, with 16 points against Detroit, 16 against Wright State and 20 against CSU.

He had 18 in his previous five games combined.

"I just feel like my after-practice work is what's really been helping me play better," Edwards said.

With Van Wijk's status uncertain, Edwards could play a key role down the stretch as VU tries to stay in first place.If the last three games are any indication, he might be ready to do that.

"He was a junior-college All-American, but when he came in, it usually takes a little time to get used to the system and the offense and where his spots are to score," VU coach Bryce Drew said. "I think he's done a tremendous job. Even early in the year, he did a really good job, it's just that Kevin's been playing so well."

[crusaderjoe]

CSU received a couple of votes in the last AP and ESPN/USA polls.  Maybe we sneak in there?  When was the last time we received votes?  Seems long overdue, but maybe I'm failing to remember something recent.

Not that overdue--we received votes in the ESPN/USA Today poll last year, actually right around this time of the season.  I don't think we ever received a vote in the AP.

[valpotx]

On the bracketology noise, I think someone has a sense of humor in placing us today:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

[valpopal]

On the bracketology noise, I think someone has a sense of humor in placing us today:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

Yes, I wondered what it would be like if Valpo were in the same bracket with Michigan State just as much as I wondered about Baylor.

[bbtds]

Granted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arch will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state. 

When was SLU admitted to the HL? Won't both Scottrade and Chaifitz be busy during tournament week?    StLVUFan? vuweathernerd?

[VUfan]

The win last night really means that we and CSU are tied in losses three each (they have a game in hand). If we win out and CSU win out record wise we will be tied record wise, we win on tie breakers. We lose one game and CSU wins out we end up 2ed. A YSU game win and a Butler win over CSU gives  VU a one game advantage. A big advantage for the rest of the season.  There is a lot to be done before the season is over.  Let's focus on YSU the next game!! 

[bbtds]

then a second CSU player (Brown) dove in to try to grab the lose ball and rolled right up on his leg.  VW fell awkawrdly to the side and then to the ground.  I saw it right away and thought it was a knee.  Knowing the way that Brown plays (all-out hustle, but clean), I don't think for a second that it was an intentional play,

I call it unintentional/intentional. It's like when your mother used to tell you not to play and "rough-house" so much. Before you know it you banged yourself into your brother's knee and he's crying and yelling "Mom, YOUR NAME hurt me." You didn't mean to hurt your brother but you knew the physical play could lead to dangerous circumstances and you are just lucky that it was just your brother and not both of you that got hurt.

[agibson]

No one is saying we are expecting to go to the tourney at this time lol.  Just like Stl said, it is just fun to see our name on the bracket for the first time in 8 years.

As with the national polling, our name was on _this_ kind of bracket a year ago.  It's the next four games, and the HL tournament, that will really test how far we've come.

(Hmmm.. March 15, 16, 17, 18.  Still Spring Break.  Road trip to... Columbus?  Louisville?  Nashville?  Omaha?  I suppose I'd stay home with the family.)

[Valpo89]

Lost in all the discussion of last night's win was Ryan's monster dunk in the second half. The Cleveland Plain Dealer wrote about the coast-to-coast play, and of course Ryan remembered everything and broke it down like a coach:

Valpo's Ryan Broekhoff, working on a 24-point night, snatched the rebound under the basket, then drove coast-to-coast for a dunk and a 49-34 lead that all but took first place, and perhaps a chance at hosting the Horizon League Tournament, out of the hands of the Vikings (20-5, 10-3), and placed it firmly in the grasp of the Crusaders (18-8, 11-3). Valparaiso swept CSU this season.

"I was trying to track the ball, because I'm not a physical guy that can bang around and get [a rebound]," Broekhoff said. "I noticed it was short so I ran under the ring, pushed through. Kind of an instinct. I grabbed the ball, pushed it out and kind of caught everyone else by surprise, flat-footed and straight-legged. I was either going to take a layup or go for a 3. I was able to force it [to the rim] and finish the play."

[StlVUFan]

Granted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arch will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state. 

When was SLU admitted to the HL? Won't both Scottrade and Chaifitz be busy during tournament week?    StLVUFan? vuweathernerd?

Probably a slip of the finger.  Probably meant ARC

[FWalum]

Clearly Kevin will be missed but, Edwards adds a dimension Kevin will never have--the 3 point shot.  When you have a 6'8" guy who can move as well as Richie AND hit the 3, it makes their bigs try to defend on the perimeter which in many cases just doesn't work.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that he wouldn't be missed, but would the loss be fatal?  I don't think so. We would need more minutes from Ben and Matt which makes us smaller, but quicker with another 3 point shooter on the floor.  Imagine what next year will bring when we add to more skilled bigs to the equation--but, that is next year not this year.  Let's all pray for a quick and full recovery!

I respect your view on this VU72 but have to really disagree.  Kevin is a true "back to the basket" player "the best true post in the HL" as the pregame analyst said before last nights game, something we have not had in a long time and something that has really changed the way teams have had to defend us this year.  Richie has added a different dimension to the team on the floor when he comes in, but this is really set up by Kevin's physical play.  Teams have to game plan for Kevin's majority of minutes letting Richie come in and give us a different look.  If Kevin is out for a period of time it allows teams to game plan specifically for Richie and a less physical style of play.  Kevin also gets more than twice the free throw attempts per minute played and consequently can rack up the fouls on the opposition.  Without Kevin this team becomes the Cory Johnson style team of 2009-2010 when Cory shot 50% from 3. While the blow may not be fatal I think it make things much harder strategically.

[vuweathernerd]

Granted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arch will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state. 

When was SLU admitted to the HL? Won't both Scottrade and Chaifitz be busy during tournament week?    StLVUFan? vuweathernerd?

Probably a slip of the finger.  Probably meant ARC

probably. but chaiffetz will be quiet by then b/c stl doesn't host the a10 tourney. and the mo valley tourney is played out at scottrade center.

[valpopal]

Just an update: word is that Kevin's knee is feeling better today, but it is uncertain whether he will be able to play against YSU. Certainly good news after the initial impression when he went down in the Cleveland game.

[vu72]

Clearly Kevin will be missed but, Edwards adds a dimension Kevin will never have--the 3 point shot.  When you have a 6'8" guy who can move as well as Richie AND hit the 3, it makes their bigs try to defend on the perimeter which in many cases just doesn't work.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that he wouldn't be missed, but would the loss be fatal?  I don't think so. We would need more minutes from Ben and Matt which makes us smaller, but quicker with another 3 point shooter on the floor.  Imagine what next year will bring when we add to more skilled bigs to the equation--but, that is next year not this year.  Let's all pray for a quick and full recovery!

I respect your view on this VU72 but have to really disagree.  Kevin is a true "back to the basket" player "the best true post in the HL" as the pregame analyst said before last nights game, something we have not had in a long time and something that has really changed the way teams have had to defend us this year.  Richie has added a different dimension to the team on the floor when he comes in, but this is really set up by Kevin's physical play.  Teams have to game plan for Kevin's majority of minutes letting Richie come in and give us a different look.  If Kevin is out for a period of time it allows teams to game plan specifically for Richie and a less physical style of play.  Kevin also gets more than twice the free throw attempts per minute played and consequently can rack up the fouls on the opposition.  Without Kevin this team becomes the Cory Johnson style team of 2009-2010 when Cory shot 50% from 3. While the blow may not be fatal I think it make things much harder strategically.

Well said.  I defer to your judgement and experience Coach!

[bbtds]

Granted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arch will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state. 

When was SLU admitted to the HL? Won't both Scottrade and Chaifitz be busy during tournament week?    StLVUFan? vuweathernerd?

Probably a slip of the finger.  Probably meant ARC

Yes, should have arched over and fixed it. [preview button works great]   

[valporun]

There is also a way to "modify" a post, if you catch a mistake/typo after you've posted it.

[bbtds]

probably. but chaiffetz will be quiet by then b/c stl doesn't host the a10 tourney. and the mo valley tourney is played out at scottrade center.

it wasn't really about whether Chaifetz was empty or not. I'm just a stickler for correcting spelling errors that are oblivious

Very small small spelling errors can make a huge huge dilifference.

Right, Crudsader 03?

[bbtds]

There is also a way to "modify" a post, if you catch a mistake/typo after you've posted it.

I love "modify." I must modify about every post.

[oklahomamick]

Fixed.

[FWalum]

Clearly Kevin will be missed but, Edwards adds a dimension Kevin will never have--the 3 point shot.  When you have a 6'8" guy who can move as well as Richie AND hit the 3, it makes their bigs try to defend on the perimeter which in many cases just doesn't work.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that he wouldn't be missed, but would the loss be fatal?  I don't think so. We would need more minutes from Ben and Matt which makes us smaller, but quicker with another 3 point shooter on the floor.  Imagine what next year will bring when we add to more skilled bigs to the equation--but, that is next year not this year.  Let's all pray for a quick and full recovery!

I respect your view on this VU72 but have to really disagree.  Kevin is a true "back to the basket" player "the best true post in the HL" as the pregame analyst said before last nights game, something we have not had in a long time and something that has really changed the way teams have had to defend us this year.  Richie has added a different dimension to the team on the floor when he comes in, but this is really set up by Kevin's physical play.  Teams have to game plan for Kevin's majority of minutes letting Richie come in and give us a different look.  If Kevin is out for a period of time it allows teams to game plan specifically for Richie and a less physical style of play.  Kevin also gets more than twice the free throw attempts per minute played and consequently can rack up the fouls on the opposition.  Without Kevin this team becomes the Cory Johnson style team of 2009-2010 when Cory shot 50% from 3. While the blow may not be fatal I think it make things much harder strategically.

Well said.  I defer to your judgement and experience Coach!

Thanks for the ego boost VU72.  Just my humble opinion and perhaps old school approach to coaching.  Hopefully this will all be a moot point and Richie will continue to impress along with Kevin's knee appearing to be better than initial appearances and responding to treatment as has been intimated by others.

One of the big differences I see in this team is how Kevin has really gotten to the line this year.  This ability really puts pressure on the other teams big men often creating foul trouble.  In the past years many posters have complained that we did not take the ball to the basket and get free throw attempts. Compare Kevin to last years two top players in free throw attempts and makes.
              FTM     FTA       GMS
Cory          97     137        35
Brandon     77     116        35
Kevin        114    174        26

Currently as a team we are getting 22 FTA a game this year vs 19.8 last year and making 15.58 per game vs 12.8 makes from last years team.  Perhaps a small thing but I think pretty significant.

[historyman]

From Butler board, quotes from Butler player,


"I mean, Cleveland State is a really dirty team," Marshall said. "They get away with a lot."

The Vikings long have been recognized in the Horizon League for physical, hard-nosed play. The same often has been said about Butler.

Marshall referred to an incident in last month's game in which a Cleveland State player inbounded a ball hard off Butler's Kameron Woods, who doubled over in pain.

"Cleveland State is definitely a dirty team, and it's just how we respond to it," Marshall said. "There were a lot of bumps, a lot of hand checks, pushing calls we wish we could have gotten."


I know this is nothing new but it still makes me think that the injury to Kevin was more intentional than unintentional. But as I said the payback must come in beating UIC and Loyola and not giving Cleveland State any chance at hosting the HL tourney where they will get away with more of their "dirty" play.

[FWalum]

I know this is nothing new but it still makes me think that the injury to Kevin was more intentional than unintentional. But as I said the payback must come in beating UIC and Loyola and not giving Cleveland State any chance at hosting the HL tourney where they will get away with more of their "dirty" play.

I did not get to watch the first CSU VU game so after the win at CSU I watched the previous game and could not get over how many times Kevin got tangled up with someone and ended up on the floor.  I can't say that any incident in particular was intentional it just seemed rather unusual.