Outside The Lines for February 9, 2012

[valporun]

I'm watching OTL today because part of it is talking about rivalries in college football and basketball. Some of it will probably have to do with the lost rivalries in all of this conference realignment, and what happened in last night's Duke-UNC game, since it is rivalry week. What I wanted to do with this post though is ask what some people feel are the best, or their favorite, rivalries in college football or basketball?

It could be any of the Big Ten football rivalries involving Paul Bunyan's Ax, Old Oaken Bucket, or any of those rivalry games. It could even been the Valpo-Butler Hoosier Helmet game. Don't be afraid to even talk about the old rivalry of Harvard-Yale.

If you missed this, go to the Outside The Lines page on espn.com, and they'll have it there later.

[vuweathernerd]

i'm biased, but mizzou-kansas. and i'm sad that it's ending for the forseeable future. though in fairness, it is kind of mizzou's fault for leaving for the sec. but ku is using that as an excuse to cut off the series.

[valpo04]

Army/Navy!

[valporun]

i'm biased, but mizzou-kansas. and i'm sad that it's ending for the forseeable future. though in fairness, it is kind of mizzou's fault for leaving for the sec. but ku is using that as an excuse to cut off the series.

That is a rivalry much like how ours was with ORU, once we left the Summit, I was upset that rivalry was ending, but I think we're starting to develop a few good ones in the HL, and I'm also glad that we're still scheduling Oakland from time to time.

[setshot]

Harvard - Valparaiso. We beat them  68-66 in 1961 at a tournament in StL.  A neighbor of mine claims to have played for Harvard in that game. Harvard also played both Wheaton and DePauw in that tournament and lost to both. Seriously though,UNC-Duke in basketball and OSU-Michigan and USC-Clemson in football would be my choices. Now,let's beat CSU tonight!

[bbtds]

The Monon Bell game between Wabash and DePauw has drawn up to 11,000 in attendance over the years and is one of the true pure rivalries of college student athletes in the nation. That game brings millions $$ to either Greencastle or Crawfordsville every year.

History of the Monon Bell
http://www.depauw.edu/athletics/traditions/monon/history/

Monon Bell Song with video
http://c510383.r83.cf2.rackcdn.com/av/fball/ballad-bell-2007.mov

When did Wabash College change their nickname from Cavemen to Little Giants?  They were the Little Giants in the 70's.

[valpotx]

By far, the Texas-OU Red River Shootout is insane each year in football.  Every time that game is played around Texas State Fair time, traffic is jam packed throughout DFW, and it bring tons of money to the area.  Very intense on the field as well, as Oklahoma always has a lot of Texas players on their roster (as do most college programs it seems).

In regards to Valpo, since I hate them so much, it must have been a rivaliry: ORU.  In basketball, as well as baseball.  We rarely beat them in baseball, but when we did, it was a huge victory since they were usually in the top 25 back then. 

[StlVUFan]

This one's my choice: http://www.midmajority.com/p/2308

[vu84v2]

Regarding Missouri-Kansas...

I was fairly familar with Michigan-Ohio State and UNC-Duke before moving to Lawrence.  After putting Army/Navy in a whole different dimension, I must say that I have never seen anything like Missouri-Kansas.  There are huge historical ties back to pre-cival war issues and they just transferred to sports once football started around 1890.  The rivalry is intense on so many levels, especially the relatively close distance with a major city right in between.

Consider:
-Norm Stewart refused to buy anything in the state of Kansas.  He never bought anything in this state during his entire time coaching Missouri and visiting KU.
-A longtime coach and athletic director recently passed away in Lawrence...he was around 90.  Every year he would personally talk with the KU football team before the Missour game about why they should utterly hate Missouri.
-I can safely say that you could not wear Missouri Black and Gold in Lawrence and KU Blue in Columbia...I mean I don't think you can wear the color, let alone the school logo.

Should they continue the series?  I doubt Missouri will want to play football on a neutral ground (since they have the historical upper hand) and Kansas feels vastly superior to Missour in basketball (5 national titles to none, seven consecutive Big 12 titles, etc, etc).  My guess is that it will be a long time for football to be renewed (Weis and future coaches will focus on K-State and trying to be competitive in the Big 12), but that the money and allure of a basketball game in Kansas City may be too much to pass up.  It will be awhile though, because Self will hold a long grudge against Missouri for bolting and feels that Kansas basketball is just fine without Missouri.

Oh....and the Missouri at Kansas game later this month should be absolutely wild - especially if both teams come in with 2 Big 12 losses.

[vu72]

Being from Ohio originally, I would have to say Ohio State (The) and Michigan.  As for us, it has to be Valpo -Butler.  We started playing other teams earlier (Western Michigan in 1920 for example) but the rivalry with Butler includes the most games played against each other (101 at the moment), which began in 1934.

Students from the more recent past don't understand the history, which included playing in the same conference--before the Horizon, from the 50-51 season through the 88-89 season.  If that isn't quite correct, it's close.  Then there was an occasional game and then Butler decided they were too good to play home and home and the series stopped.  During those 40ish years there was nothing quite like the history and dislike for the Bulldogs.

I'm very glad the rivalry has been renewed.  It is apparent that the students now realize the significance and hopefully will be out in force for the game coming up.  Even I am considering coming down for the game.

As for football, we have played them 71 times, again, more than any other school.

[crusaderjoe]

'72, you would know better as an older alum and former player, but I always thought Valpo's main rival in football at least before the move to D-IAA was St. Joseph's College and not Butler. 

As far as VU's rival in the HL, I think there are a few schools that could make the mark.  Butler is one for obvious reasons, but I think you could also throw in Wright State given the history between the two schools stemming back to the 1994 split.  Given the closeness and competitiveness of games, UWM is also a good candidate. 

As for the rivalries that I enjoy, other than Valpo's I am partial to Miami--Miami/FSU, Miami/UF (although the Gators keep ducking the 'Canes) and Miami/VT.  Too bad the Miami/ND series was ended the way it was back in 1990.  That arguably might have been the most hated of all time, in so short of time.

[vu72]

'72, you would know better as an older alum and former player, but I always thought Valpo's main rival in football at least before the move to D-IAA was St. Joseph's College and not Butler.  As far as VU's rival in the HL, I think there are a few schools that could make the mark.  Butler is one for obvious reasons, but I think you could also throw in Wright State given the history between the two schools stemming back to the 1994 split.  Given the closeness and competitiveness of games, UWM is also a good candidate. 

As for the rivalries that I enjoy, other than Valpo's I am partial to Miami--Miami/FSU, Miami/UF (although the Gators keep ducking the 'Canes) and Miami/VT.  Too bad the Miami/ND series was ended the way it was back in 1990.  That arguably might have been the most hated of all time, in so short of time.

You are probably correct about the football rivalry with St. Joes, which goes back to 1921 while we didn't start playing Butler until 1934.
Basketball wise Butler takes the cake but both schools were rivals because of being in the same conferenc with us, the Indiana Collegiate Conference, which included Valpo, Butler, St. Joes, Ball State, Indiana State, Evansville and Depauw, among others over the years. If you took just the D1 schools from the old days you would have quite a conference going on today!

[valpotx]

We play/played St. Joe's each year in baseball when I played, and they always took those games seriously.  Probably because they are a D-2 playing a D-1, but they seemed to know something about the rivalry.

I played with several of the St. Joe's guys my last 2 summers in IN playing around the Midwest, and they even mentioned the fact that they hated our school lol.

[Crusader03]

Hard to argue with Duke-UNC and OSU-MICH...those are possibly the two biggest rivalries nationally.

But some other rivalries I enjoy----ND-USC, Auburn-Bama, IU-KY, TX-OU

[Crusader03]

By far, the Texas-OU Red River Shootout is insane each year in football.  Every time that game is played around Texas State Fair time, traffic is jam packed throughout DFW, and it bring tons of money to the area.  Very intense on the field as well, as Oklahoma always has a lot of Texas players on their roster (as do most college programs it seems).

In regards to Valpo, since I hate them so much, it must have been a rivaliry: ORU.  In basketball, as well as baseball.  We rarely beat them in baseball, but when we did, it was a huge victory since they were usually in the top 25 back then.

I know this thread is about college sports, but still, I am really surprised you didn't mention Dodgers-Giants!!!

[vu72]

By far, the Texas-OU Red River Shootout is insane each year in football.  Every time that game is played around Texas State Fair time, traffic is jam packed throughout DFW, and it bring tons of money to the area.  Very intense on the field as well, as Oklahoma always has a lot of Texas players on their roster (as do most college programs it seems).

In regards to Valpo, since I hate them so much, it must have been a rivalry: ORU.  In basketball, as well as baseball.  We rarely beat them in baseball, but when we did, it was a huge victory since they were usually in the top 25 back then. 

A few years ago my son-in-law and I decided to go over to the Cotton Bowl area and try to find tickets for the Texas-OU game.  Crazy!  I ended up buying fake tickets at near the 50 yard line!  Pretty embarrassing, but the ushers found us pretty good seats.  They no longer do such things so if you buy fake tickets you are shown the door.

The atmosphere is hard to describe.  The stadium seating is split in half and so one have is all orange and the other half is all red.  Never before have I seen older ladies, all dressed up and verbally attacking the lineage of the opposition!   

[valpotx]

They now do this game at Jerry's world (new Cowboys Stadium), and it has gotten even more hectic with the increased seating that place provides.