Valpo (WBB) vs. Butler - 2/11

KL31NY · February 11, 2012, 05:49:34 PM

Checking the board before the men's game and noticed no one mentioned the Crusader women...

http://www.valpoathletics.com/wbasketball/news/2011-12/11428/valpo-wins-at-butler-for-first-time-since-1983/

Last time Valpo defeated the Bulldogs at Hinkle Fieldhouse, current head coach Keith Freeman was a teenager and the first-year skipper of the Huntington women's team. Solid shooting game in all areas. Gerardot w/ a CH 26, plus 8 boards. Great win short-staffed.

vuweathernerd · February 11, 2012, 06:05:30 PM

this was a great bit of news to wake up to from my nap. way to go ladies!

Crusader03 · February 11, 2012, 07:44:15 PM

Another one bites the dust...another one bites the dust...HEY HEY!

This team marches on towards a showdown with Green Bay...JUST AS I PREDICTED. BAAAAAM! Keith has got this team rounded in to form...despite being shorthanded, he has got the machine purring. I think he is closing in on the HL Coach of the Year award.

Due to our record, I think we would be a 16 in the tourney, no higher than a 14. This isn't the men's tourney though, folks. 16's beat 1's. YOU GOTTA BELIEVE!

valpotx · February 12, 2012, 01:43:13 AM

Good win, watched part of it and we made a lot of shots that were contested. I also noticed we played 8 today??

jack · February 12, 2012, 07:51:26 AM

Great win. The ladies came out with attitude this game. probably the toughest place to win a road game. Gerardot was fantastic under the boards. She was finishing with athortity. The crowd had to be the largest we've seen yet. Horton even got a couple of minutes in on this one. Looks like Carr is sporting some new hardware, but it didn't appear to affect her mobility. If we can just get one more player healthy, we might be able to put a little run together. Got to get Richards out for a blow though. Playing the entire game will bite us in the ass as the season winds down.
Congrats ladies. You earned this one!

IndyValpo · February 12, 2012, 08:31:10 AM

Quote from: jack on February 12, 2012, 07:51:26 AM
Great win. The ladies came out with attitude this game. probably the toughest place to win a road game. Gerardot was fantastic under the boards. She was finishing with athortity. The crowd had to be the largest we've seen yet. Horton even got a couple of minutes in on this one. Looks like Carr is sporting some new hardware, but it didn't appear to affect her mobility. If we can just get one more player healthy, we might be able to put a little run together. Got to get Richards out for a blow though. Playing the entire game will bite us in the ass as the season winds down.
Congrats ladies. You earned this one!

Two very good games in a row. Neither CSU or Butler is particularly strong, however, Butler had been playing pretty well the last 2-3 weeks. Interestingly, Jansone has gotten more minutes the last two games and the additional minutes has helped. Makes you wonder about her first 5-6 games.

Always good to beat Bulter in anything!!!!!!

IndyValpo · February 12, 2012, 08:36:03 AM

Quote from: Crusader03 on February 11, 2012, 07:44:15 PMDue to our record, I think we would be a 16 in the tourney, no higher than a 14. This isn't the men's tourney though, folks. 16's beat 1's.

As usual I will take the time to educate our poor 03. Do just a little research and you will see that 1/16 match ups are incredibly one sided for the 1 seed in the women's game much, repeat much, more so than the mens tourney. We are talking about 50-60 point blowouts.

historyman · February 12, 2012, 01:06:18 PM

Quote from: IndyValpo on February 12, 2012, 08:36:03 AM
Quote from: Crusader03 on February 11, 2012, 07:44:15 PMDue to our record, I think we would be a 16 in the tourney, no higher than a 14. This isn't the men's tourney though, folks. 16's beat 1's.

As usual I will take the time to educate our poor 03. Do just a little research and you will see that 1/16 match ups are incredibly one sided for the 1 seed in the women's game much, repeat much, more so than the mens tourney. We are talking about 50-60 point blowouts.

I certainly agree with this. In the womens game there are much much more lopsided games than in the mens. I think the biggest reason being that many more men athletes (some are not much in the student category) move on to the NBA to start their professional playing careers BEFORE spending four years in college. Women student athletes don't value the prize money and alure of the WNBA as much as the men covet the money and fame of the NBA. Therefore many more of the talented women play for 4 years for the dominating schools and keep those schools in the dominating category. Much like the college mens game was before so many men athletes started leaving early for the NBA.

Yes, there have been some 16-1 upsets in the womens NCAA tourney but there have also been many many more blowouts than in the mens NCAA tourney.

Valpo89 · February 12, 2012, 01:26:29 PM

Quote from: historyman on February 12, 2012, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on February 12, 2012, 08:36:03 AM
Quote from: Crusader03 on February 11, 2012, 07:44:15 PMDue to our record, I think we would be a 16 in the tourney, no higher than a 14. This isn't the men's tourney though, folks. 16's beat 1's.

As usual I will take the time to educate our poor 03. Do just a little research and you will see that 1/16 match ups are incredibly one sided for the 1 seed in the women's game much, repeat much, more so than the mens tourney. We are talking about 50-60 point blowouts.
I certainly agree with this. In the womens game there are much much more lopsided games than in the mens. I think the biggest reason being that many more men athletes (some are not much in the student category) move on to the NBA to start their professional playing careers BEFORE spending four years in college. Women student athletes don't value the prize money and alure of the WNBA as much as the men covet the money and fame of the NBA. Therefore many more of the talented women play for 4 years for the dominating schools and keep those schools in the dominating category. Much like the college mens game was before so many men athletes started leaving early for the NBA.

Yes, there have been some 16-1 upsets in the womens NCAA tourney but there have also been many many more blowouts than in the mens NCAA tourney.

Interesting subject. I've always been of the belief that there is a HUGE talent gap in the women's game between the elites and everyone else. It is especially true in high school.

Not a lot of girls grow up playing basketball. It's just a fact. So there are much fewer truly elite players. They all go to UConn, Tennessee and Baylor. They used to go to Louisiana Tech, or somewhere down there.

That's why the women's NCAA Tournament is much easier to predict than the men. I'm not going to do the research, but I'll bet if you look at the history of the women's tournament since going to seeds, the Final Four probably consists of teams from the top 8 or 12 seeds more than 75 percent of the time. Outside of the elite programs, the other schools are left with everyone else - good but not great. That's why there is such a gap between best teams in women's basketball and everyone else.
In high school, there are schools around here where girls get to the high school level and have trouble doing any of the fundamentals. They shoot the ball over the backboard, they travel, they constantly throw it away. They miss shots, which is why girls players almost always have bigger rebounding numbers than boys. At the small schools, if you're willing to go out for the team, you will play even if you are terrible. Maybe there aren't enough kids who truly put in the time to become the best they can be, either because they don't like the sport enough or because they know they will make the team even if they don't play all the time simply because there's no one else available.
It's not like that in boys basketball. Most boys grow up playing. It's an honor to make the team in high school, and if you don't work at it you know you're not going to make the team - even at small schools. That translates to the college level. Sure, you've got your McDonald's All-Americans who go to Duke, NC, UCLA, Kentucky and everywhere else and leave after a year. And then at VU's level, you get guys like Ryan Broekhoff who probably could play at a higher level. Most mid-major schools probably do have 2-3 guys who could have gone to a bigger school but chose not to in search of immediate playing time. By the time they're seniors, if you get a class to stick together, they can pull off the upset of a team with NBA Draft pick freshmen. That's what leads to the March Madness.

The WNBA comment? The money isn't there, come on. If there were multi-million dollar contracts in the WNBA, I'll bet girls would leave school early. But the money isn't there. I won't say it's because no one cares about the WNBA, but that's probably part of it.

historyman · February 12, 2012, 01:47:21 PM

Quote from: Valpo89 on February 12, 2012, 01:26:29 PMThe WNBA comment? The money isn't there, come on. If there were multi-million dollar contracts in the WNBA, I'll bet girls would leave school early. But the money isn't there. I won't say it's because no one cares about the WNBA, but that's probably part of it.

I totally agree with you. I probably didn't say it well enough to get my point across. When I said "the women don't value the prize money and allure of the WNBA" I was refering to the amount of the salaries and agree if the money was as much as in the NBA then the women would leave for the WNBA just as early as the men do to the NBA.

The women like to feel they are smarter about the need to prepare themselves better for the rest of their careers after their professional playing days but don't believe that. Everyone is allured by large sums of money.

jack · February 12, 2012, 02:24:57 PM

Boys go to college to play ball. Girls play ball to go to college.

Valpo89 · February 12, 2012, 03:02:43 PM

Quote from: jack on February 12, 2012, 02:24:57 PM
Boys go to college to play ball. Girls play ball to go to college.

If we had a Like button, I'd click it.

Crusader03 · February 12, 2012, 03:55:21 PM

Quote from: IndyValpo on February 12, 2012, 08:36:03 AM
Quote from: Crusader03 on February 11, 2012, 07:44:15 PMDue to our record, I think we would be a 16 in the tourney, no higher than a 14. This isn't the men's tourney though, folks. 16's beat 1's.

As usual I will take the time to educate our poor 03. Do just a little research and you will see that 1/16 match ups are incredibly one sided for the 1 seed in the women's game much, repeat much, more so than the mens tourney. We are talking about 50-60 point blowouts.

Has a 16 ever beaten a 1 in the mens' tourney?

StlVUFan · February 12, 2012, 06:48:50 PM

Quote from: Crusader03 on February 12, 2012, 03:55:21 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on February 12, 2012, 08:36:03 AM
Quote from: Crusader03 on February 11, 2012, 07:44:15 PMDue to our record, I think we would be a 16 in the tourney, no higher than a 14. This isn't the men's tourney though, folks. 16's beat 1's.

As usual I will take the time to educate our poor 03. Do just a little research and you will see that 1/16 match ups are incredibly one sided for the 1 seed in the women's game much, repeat much, more so than the mens tourney. We are talking about 50-60 point blowouts.

Has a 16 ever beaten a 1 in the mens' tourney?

Several have come darn close, but no. However, if I'm not mistaken, the 16/1 upset has happened in women's NCAA tourney precisely ONCE. Not a huge difference there.

historyman · February 12, 2012, 08:37:32 PM

Quote from: StlVUFan on February 12, 2012, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: Crusader03 on February 12, 2012, 03:55:21 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on February 12, 2012, 08:36:03 AM
Quote from: Crusader03 on February 11, 2012, 07:44:15 PMDue to our record, I think we would be a 16 in the tourney, no higher than a 14. This isn't the men's tourney though, folks. 16's beat 1's.

As usual I will take the time to educate our poor 03. Do just a little research and you will see that 1/16 match ups are incredibly one sided for the 1 seed in the women's game much, repeat much, more so than the mens tourney. We are talking about 50-60 point blowouts.

Has a 16 ever beaten a 1 in the mens' tourney?

Several have come darn close, but no. However, if I'm not mistaken, the 16/1 upset has happened in women's NCAA tourney precisely ONCE. Not a huge difference there.

Speaking of brains over brawn can you name the school that has won the only 16 vs 1 match up in either the mens or womens NCAA basketball tournament?

jack · February 12, 2012, 08:54:24 PM

Never happened in the Men's game, but I believe #16 Harvard beat #1 Stanford in the late 90's on the women's side. Actully, that would be brain over brain!!

ValpoHoops · February 12, 2012, 09:40:52 PM

Correct. Stanford sat two of their top players who were battling injuries, and it cost them.

KL31NY · February 13, 2012, 12:10:01 AM

When I looked up the information on Wikipedia, I found a couple interesting things...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_NCAA_Women%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament

QuoteHowever, in the West Regional, the expected 1-16 blowout did not happen. In that matchup, Harvard defeated #1 seed Stanford on its home court 71-67, the only time in the men's or women's tournament that a 16 has ever beaten a 1. In addition, 9th-seeded Arkansas made the final four, the highest seed ever to do so in the women's tournament.

The latter is more interesting because one of the anchors of that Razorback team was former VUWBB assistant and current Purdue coach Christy Smith.

StlVUFan · February 13, 2012, 01:43:49 AM

Quote from: KL31NY on February 13, 2012, 12:10:01 AM
When I looked up the information on Wikipedia, I found a couple interesting things...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_NCAA_Women%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament
QuoteHowever, in the West Regional, the expected 1-16 blowout did not happen. In that matchup, Harvard defeated #1 seed Stanford on its home court 71-67, the only time in the men's or women's tournament that a 16 has ever beaten a 1. In addition, 9th-seeded Arkansas made the final four, the highest seed ever to do so in the women's tournament.
The latter is more interesting because one of the anchors of that Razorback team was former VUWBB assistant and current Purdue coach Christy Smith.

I thought the Purdue coach was somebody else. Did they recently change coaches or something? Dang, I can't remember the name that I'm referring to.

IndyValpo · February 13, 2012, 07:09:09 AM

Quote from: StlVUFan on February 13, 2012, 01:43:49 AMI thought the Purdue coach was somebody else. Did they recently change coaches or something? Dang, I can't remember the name that I'm referring to.

Purdue coach is former player Sharon Versyrp (sp). Smith is an assistant.

StlVUFan · February 13, 2012, 09:32:06 AM

Quote from: IndyValpo on February 13, 2012, 07:09:09 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on February 13, 2012, 01:43:49 AMI thought the Purdue coach was somebody else. Did they recently change coaches or something? Dang, I can't remember the name that I'm referring to.

Purdue coach is former player Sharon Versyrp (sp). Smith is an assistant.

Oh

Thanks.

jack · February 13, 2012, 10:24:18 AM

If memory serves (which happens with less frequency these days) I believe that Versyp played her college ball at IU, didn't she? If so, what an ironic twist to that in state rival.

covufan · February 13, 2012, 10:36:07 AM

Quote from: jack on February 13, 2012, 10:24:18 AM
If memory serves (which happens with less frequency these days) I believe that Versyp played her college ball at IU, didn't she? If so, what an ironic twist to that in state rival.

No, she played at Purdue:

http://www.purduesports.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/versyp_sharon00.html

She may have played one game a year at IU, though

jack · February 13, 2012, 11:20:51 AM

There's a tie there somewhere. Didn't she coach at IU then, or sign a contract to do so and then have a change of heart? Seems like there was something like that that happened, but again, my "mind like a steel trap' could use some WD40 these days.

IndyValpo · February 13, 2012, 11:23:55 AM

Quote from: jack on February 13, 2012, 11:20:51 AM
There's a tie there somewhere. Didn't she coach at IU then, or sign a contract to do so and then have a change of heart? Seems like there was something like that that happened, but again, my "mind like a steel trap' could use some WD40 these days.

She coached 1 year at IU before the Purdue job.