Valpo vs. UIC (2/14) Game Thread

[crusaderjoe]

Can we send the officiating crew (and particularly the one who made that call with 1.1 left) a fruit basket? 

What a way to lose. You have to figure if that game goes into overtime, Cleveland State wins.

[vuweathernerd]

Can we send the officiating crew (and particularly the one who made that call with 1.1 left) a fruit basket? 

What a way to lose. You have to figure if that game goes into overtime, Cleveland State wins.

for sure. they came storming back, thanks in large part to the intensity of their press.

[vu72]

Can we send the officiating crew (and particularly the one who made that call with 1.1 left) a fruit basket? 

What a way to lose. You have to figure if that game goes into overtime, Cleveland State wins.

I don't care!   

[vu72]

Way to go 'Saders!!!!

Is this some sort of insult to the chairbacks??   

[sectionee]

fun game...well the second half was fun.  The atmosphere inside the ARC was terrible, where were the students? Thanks to those that came out and made as much noise as they could!  Safe travels to LA (we'll have a special guest blogger at the game), and lets get these last couple!

[KL31NY]

Game Ball: Valpo bench. We're down 9 w/ little more than 15 MIN left and here's our scoring -> Edwards FT, Edwards FT, Kenney FT, Edwards FT, Edwards FT, Edwards FT (obviously the early bonus situation helped ), Harris 3, Edwards 2, Harris 3, Edwards 3 -> and all of a sudden, we're up 3 with almost 10 MIN to play. Then after UIC regains the lead and we take it back, Kenney pops a couple daggers from deep to help secure the lead for good.

Overall, solid games almost all around. Good plays on both ends. And w/ a little help from the Panthers, we're one game away. Now to get the job done!

PS concerning ee's notes: I was actually surprised we had as many students as we did. Took awhile for them to show up, but they brought some noise. At one point during the run earlier in my post, Buggs turned around to the students waving his arms up and down for more noise with the biggest grin possible on his face. Made my day!

[swiftmutiny]

fun game...well the second half was fun.  The atmosphere inside the ARC was terrible, where were the students? Thanks to those that came out and made as much noise as they could!  Safe travels to LA (we'll have a special guest blogger at the game), and lets get these last couple!

It's the middle of the week. People have homework to do, tests to study for, and it's Valentine's Day to boot. Personally, I had a class tonight. Tuesdays are just bad for turnouts.

[KL31NY]

Since we're on to student discussion, who can describe what student turnout might have been like in earlier years on weeknights? I'm interested in any perspective that can be provided...

To throw out my thoughts to start, it seems to me from following Valpo since '08 that we need either Butler or ESPN for a "student sellout," a relatively good crowd consistently on Saturdays, usually less on Sunday, close to pitiful on weekdays. That's just a quick summary of my years of Valpo experience combined IMO.

[valporun]

Since we're on to student discussion, who can describe what student turnout might have been like in earlier years on weeknights? I'm interested in any perspective that can be provided...

To throw out my thoughts to start, it seems to me from following Valpo since '08 that we need either Butler or ESPN for a "student sellout," a relatively good crowd consistently on Saturdays, usually less on Sunday, close to pitiful on weekdays. That's just a quick summary of my years of Valpo experience combined IMO.

That's pretty standard for all colleges. Student turnout hurts during the week because of classes, and especially in an economy such as the one we are living in now. There was a study done by ESPN's college basketball writers/bloggers about how student attendance is down all over. They were finding out that a lot of students all over D-1, even at the majors like Duke, Syracuse, North Carolina, Michigan St., and various others were not going to games because in this economy they were staying in to studying so they could keep up on the studies and be more competitive in finding that job/internship. They wanted to go to games, but with the studying, classes, and even off-campus jobs they had to work to help with tuition, they couldn't go to games as frequently as they used to.

[StlVUFan]

I have no problem with students concentrating on homework, etc.  What disappointed me was seeing so many empty rows and sections in the bleachers.  The bleachers looked dead too in parts.  Or as John Rooney used to say, "A lot of those fans came dressed as empty chairs."

[valpotx]

Since we're on to student discussion, who can describe what student turnout might have been like in earlier years on weeknights? I'm interested in any perspective that can be provided...

To throw out my thoughts to start, it seems to me from following Valpo since '08 that we need either Butler or ESPN for a "student sellout," a relatively good crowd consistently on Saturdays, usually less on Sunday, close to pitiful on weekdays. That's just a quick summary of my years of Valpo experience combined IMO.

From the 1999-2000 season until 2003-2004, it didn't matter what day of the week it was or who we were playing if it was a regular season game.  It was VERY rare for us to be under 4,000 in attendance.  I believe we usually averaged 4,200-4,500 fans for each game, when it was not a sell-out.  Does that sound accurate Run?

It probably helped that we were always expected to win the regular season and conference tournament championships during this time...

[govalpogo]

There was most certainly something "sweet" helping from 99-04 I'd say.  In my experience (07-11) my friends didn't think Valpo was a serious contender in the bigger picture so generally didn't show up until Butler or a big name opponent rolled around.  Heck, EPSN even helps Duke fill their student sections more so no shame in that trend, some schools appear on the network with half empty bleachers...now that would be embarrassing. 

[vu84v2]

Good come from behind win last night.  While I thought Valpo's defense was weak in the first half, you also have to give credit to UIC who was playing hard, running their offense and making shots.  Additionally, UIC was getting deep position down low for a lot of the game - something to work on for Valpo.

Kenney really made the difference - great stretches on offense and defense.

As far as student attendance at the majors, Kansas definitely has better student attendance for the big games (which this season have all been on Saturday or Monday).  At least for this sampling of one big school, it does not seem to make a difference which day of the week they play.  For overall attendance, I have only seen empty seats (up to about 500 - 1,000) for the weaker non-conference opponents (people here can buy student section tickets after a certain time if there are any left).  However, in the Big 12 in general I would say you see the same phenomenom as what happens at Valpo.  Other than Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Missouri you will not see the same amount of students if the game is not a big opponent and the game is on ESPN.

[vuweathernerd]

my freshman year, 06-07, was a pretty good year in terms of student turn out. it didn't matter so much what day of the week, the student section always had solid attendance. a couple friends who were in rotc with me were also big basketball fans, and many times, we'd try to get home from nd as quickly as we could on tuesdays when there was a game because we wanted to go. there have also been other times where professors would let us out of evening classes early so that we could go to the games, which was always pretty cool. but the televised games were always the best attended as a whole, and clearly still are. the one exception i can think of would be the marquette game, fall 06 i believe, when we ran with them the entire game and only lost by a late 3. but i don't remember that game being televised, even though marquette was ranked at the time.

[Smj]

I am old school - but I can tell you I remember skipping class for a game....  I knew I could make up the work.  (91 - 95)

[grad66]

Back in the days (early 60s) the old Hill top gym was rocking evry game night.  Though I must say, there weren't a whole lot of night time classes then.
Mostly done by like 6pm.  And yes, the profs were fans too, so they let you out early, or cancelled sometimes for a BIG Game, like then it was Evansville always!

[valporun]

I will agree with your numbers, valpotx. The attendance then was definitely due in part to the Sweet 16 run, and the subsequent recruiting classes that followed it. Another thing that helped with numbers from 1999-2004 with student attendance was that the economy was still good, as a lot of our budget was adding to the Clinton surplus, and before the reserve was tapped into by President Bush for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The student body wasn't as concerned with classes and being GPA competitive for grad school or the first job in their major field then because jobs were relatively plentiful, so students would show for games because it sure beat sitting around the dorms when Valpo basketball was making their NCAA runs.

[sliman]

I've been attending Valpo basketball games for more than a dozen years and I think the attendance figures are probably more discussed, disputed and probably distorted than anything associated with the program.  Using the seating charts posted on the ticket site, (not including the student section which was added just a few years ago and any temporary bleachers on the east end) capacity is slightly less than 4,300.  This also includes the front row on the mezzanine and the floor, both places where I think tickets are sold only in "sell out" games since view from these seats is restricted.  The mezzanine, according to the seating charts, has a capacity of 2,280 (an average about 450 for each of the five sections) so if the lower level is full and the mezzanine half full (something that doesn't happen regularly based on an eye-ball assessment), there would be approximately 3,100 in attendance.  Of course, we know that seldom are all seats in the lower level full, so let's assume that attendance is based on seats sold, not occupied.  Even then, nights when attendance is more than 3,000 probably have not been regular occurrences in the past dozen years.  It's my understanding that announced attendance figures are estimated and it's pretty clear that nights when attendance was estimated at more than 4,000 despite numerous empty seats in the mezzanine that the estimate was generous.  I'm judging the student section capacity to be around 600 seats (less are used, of course, because of the pep band) and we may add another 150 for temporary bleachers on the east end and, yes, we have some standing room along the track.  In all, I'm estimating we have a capacity of 5,000-5,100.  I don't think student attendance has varied greatly in the past dozen years -- obviously there are no statistics to prove it -- but I do know that there are more night classes now than there were a dozen years ago plus the addition of cable TV in the dorm rooms to add to the competition for a student's time.  I think that is most obvious in week night games, as others have suggested, and less so on weekends when student attendance probably is not significantly different that it has been in recent years.  As in the past, there also is a direct correlation between the amount of promotion by leaders of the student section and game attendance by students -- give students a reason to attend (TV, rivalry game, title implications, etc.) -- and they're more likely to be there.  If someone spots an error in my math in determining capacity, please correct me.  Regardless, though, there probably will continue to be disagreement on the estimated attendance, which may not be bad for a school and a community our size.  In fact, it's possible that we frequently attract more than 8 percent of the combined population of the university and the city; I wonder how many places top that?  The challenge is to better engage the greater Northwest Indiana community, something I know the athletic department is working diligently to do.  What is known for sure is that there is good reason to turn out for the final two home games of the season -- a conference title on the line and the renewed rivalry with an Indiana school that has a great track record in recent years.

[sectionee]

http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/02/game-wrap-up-one-more-to-go.html

[valpotx]

The years I was speaking about, it was rare to have anything open in the gym except the top 4-5 rows of the mezzanine.  The chairbacks were full, the lower area was full, and the mezzanine was 90-95% full.  I believe the 4,000-4,200+ estimate would be accurate in this circumstance.

[VULB#62]

From the Wayback Machine:  The Coach Bartow, Eynon, Smith, Cook era (63-66) -- regular reported attendance usually ~4000 weekday or weekend in the old Brown Gym (after the addition to the North Stands).  Study when there was game?  Not happening.