Detroit @ Valpo 3/6/12 8PM CST Game Thread

[sliman]

Like most of you, I applaud Detroit for its run through the tournament and for finally playing at the level everyone thought they were capable of reaching.  Also like most of you, I am not pleased with the lack of class/character they showed in winning.  Clearly we have a better quality of student-athlete on our team than the athletes on their team.  That having been said, I think we have to give them credit for their defensive effort, particularly in the second half.  They effectively cut off the passing lanes and we seldom moved into our offense in the manner we intended.  It seems to me that Detroit is a team that plays well when things are going well, but one that doesn't handle adversity very well.  That seemed obvious in the two halves.  Detroit was more tentative, less aggressive and shot with less confidence when it was behind in the first half.  Detroit started the second half strongly, we made a couple of mistakes to help them and they began to play with a great deal of confidence, making shots they couldn't make earlier in the game -- even when not contested.  I felt a turning point came somewhere in early/middle of the second half when on nearly successive plays Kenney was called for a rather cheap foul on a McCallum (?) drive 20 feet from the basket and on our end an apparent foul on a double team was not called.  That potentially four-point swing really helped give Detroit momentum it never lost.  And we began to play on our heels and with less confidence than we'd shown earlier.  None of this is meant to negate the the problems that Detroit's quickness gave us, nor to take away from what was a good game on their part.  But if those 2-3 minutes at that stretch had gone differently, I might feel better right now.  ESPN commentators on Sports Center tabbed Detroit as a team that can win a first-round game; I'd probably agree if I knew whether tonight's Detroit team or one from December will show up.  As for Valpo, I'd like to see a decent pairing in the NIT and a chance to win a game or two.  The good news is our players will get at least one more game of experience and an opportunity to move on from tonight's game.  And, if you had promised me in pre-season that we'd win 22 games and being playing the the HL title game, I'd have taken that outcome in a second.

[wh]

I think you just said it all.  Very nice summary. 

[koala]

Yes Rowdy was under the weather.   I spoke to him a few hours before the game and he said he had a tummy bug and hadn't eaten all day, that didn't sound good so I was worried.   But I know he would not use that as an excuse as Detroit were better on the day and he tried his hardest just wasn't meant to be.   Well done guys you did us all proud when no one gave you any hope in finishing higher than 5th well you showed them.   Congrats to Detroit but shame on their fans and Jnr for carrying on the way they did, bad language and show boating.   At least our guys know how to win and loose with style,  class, grace and dignity, Detroit could learn a thing or two.   Now dad McCallum take your boy home and give him a clip around the ears because he was embarassing, that's what I would do to my son if he carried on the way that your son did even if I had to stand on a chair to reach him.   Needless to say that wont happen but karma is a b*^#h and you will get yours one day.   I was going to root for the  Horizon League team that made it if we didn't make it well that's not going to happen now and it's not sour grapes on my part just disgust in the way they carried on and the one sided commentating by those two muppet ESPN knobs.   Our guys you've had a taste and now you know what to do next year so the fire in the belly will burn brightly and I for one am looking forward to it all happening again next year and this time we will be there in person to cheer you all on.   Thanks to all the Valpo fans who have supported, befriended, cheered and clapped for Rowdy.   We all appreciated it and I know he has too.   He will be back next year and it will be onward and upward to bigger things for this wonderful group of young men.

Thanks to you all from Rowdy's family in Melbourne, Australia 

[valpopal]

Koala wrote: "Thanks to all the Valpo fans who have supported, befriended, cheered and clapped for Rowdy.   We all appreciated it and I know he has too.   He will be back next year and it will be onward and upward to bigger things for this wonderful group of young men.
Thanks to you all from Rowdy's family in Melbourne, Australia  "

Thanks to you as well, Koala, and to Rowdy, not only for his play but for the great way he represents his family, his country, and now Valparaiso. You ought to be proud. Watching the antics by Detroit's players and fans reminded me how classy the players on our team seem to be. All the Valpo players I have met and with whom I have spoken, particularly Ryan, appear to be impressive young men both on and off the court.

Also, don't talk so quickly about moving on to next year. There is still the NIT tournament ahead to earn another banner for the year!

[valpo84]

As to the NIT, this team needs to learn how to beat a Big 6 conference team to really be prepared for next year. The good thing about the NIT is we will likely have a good match up in that 1st round. Northwestern sits out there, a mediocre ACC (NC State, Va Tech (a Boggs reunion)), Big 12/Pac 10 or Big Least team as well. I believe it was Wichita State who had a tremendous NIT run last year and that set them up for this year.  We have been on a 5 year building program, I still think we are one year ahead of that plan. An NCAA bid this year would have had us completing that 5-yr plan. Yet, we have an HL championship, an auto NIT, POY, COY, 1st teamer KVH, and integrated 3 new players. That means we are set up for their senior years very well. We learned about winning the conference, we learned about playing at hostile environs, we competed against Arizona and a half w OSU. But for this team to make the leap for the whole program, it needs a couple big name team wins, and the NIT is the place to go hunting.

[valpopal]

It just gets worse:

DETROIT FANS SUSPECTED IN VU-AREA VANDALISM

Police are investigating a number of vandalism reports near the Valparaiso University campus following Tuesday night's Horizon League Men's Basketball Championship game against the University of Detroit Mercy. According to Valparaiso police, about 10:30 p.m. officers began receiving vandalism reports when a 33-year-old law student reported damage to the front door of this apartment in the 300 block of College Avenue and his car parked outside. Police said the damage was caused by a black permanent marker.

Officers patrolling the area then began finding other damage, all reportedly caused with a black permanent marker.

A one-way street sign at College Avenue and Union Street was tagged "313 Detroit Titans" and a passerby told officers a group of six to eight people wearing Detroit shirts were seen walking in the area just prior to the game.

Two signs on Morgan Boulevard and Brown Street also were hit with Detroit graffiti, as was a sign at Union Street and Garfield Avenue.

Police also reportedly found graffiti on the door of a house in the 600 block of Union Street and on the rear bumper of a car parked in the 400 block of Locust Street.

Read more: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/valparaiso/police-detroit-fans-suspected-in-vu-area-vandalism/article_bd6179b2-86f7-5c85-9d6d-adab4f9c2c7a.html#ixzz1oS92J1OM

[okinawatyphoon]

Detroit fans seriously have nothing better to do? This is infuriating. And I say this as someone whose parents live in the metro Detroit area. Making Valpo look more like Detroit doesn't help anyone.

[valpotx]

That is ridiculous, and again, speaks to the fans at that game.  Stay classy Detroit

[Valpo_Fred]

[DCBaller]

Tell you what, you promise not to paint U of D, it's players, fans, and city with broad strokes because of the actions of a couple people, and I'll promise not to assume that everyone associated with VU is a racist just because a few students set your MLK Center on fire a couple years ago, spray-painted racist grafiti around campus, like to call our mostly-black team "thugs" for no apparent reason, and that most of your players are Caucasian.

Deal?

[valpo04]

Tell you what, you promise not to paint U of D, it's players, fans, and city with broad strokes because of the actions of a couple people, and I'll promise not to assume that everyone associated with VU is a racist just because a few students set your MLK Center on fire a couple years ago, spray-painted racist grafiti around campus, like to call our mostly-black team "thugs" for no apparent reason, and that most of your players are Caucasian.

Deal?

DCBaller,

What are you trying to prove?  You come to our board the day after your team beats ours in the HL Championship, on our home court in a game in which your best player showed up our team, your fans chanted profanities and then went around town vandalizing property.

Did you really expect us to be all happy and not be a little irrational today?

Let us vent, enjoy the NCAA Tournament.

[valpotx]

I can tell you that there definitely is no racist intent in my calling a few of your players thugs.  That stems from them getting in fights with fraternity brothers, previous thrown furniture/lamps at a coach, dunking as time runs out, as well as a few of the other instances some of them have been involved in.  Thug is not a term used to describe African American individuals in my vernacular, it has to do with the actions of a person: black, white, green, blue, whatever their ethnicity...

[DCBaller]

Fair enough!  Vent away . . . .

[FWalum]

a few students set your MLK Center on fire a couple years ago, spray-painted racist grafiti around campus

Fact check. Charges were dropped against the student originally thought to have been involved in the fire.  The other events that you noted occurred mainly in the town and at the high school with no connection that I am aware of to the university.  While the city itself was a hot bed of KKK activity in the 20's and 30's the university has worked hard to overcome the idea that while it is predominately white (German Lutherans tend to be Caucasian) all nations and races are welcome. I think the diverse makeup of the team shows that remarkably well.

Is there racism at VU? Most certainly, just as there is on any campus.  How did this become a racism thing??

[crusader1897]

As disappointed as I am in the lack of class shown by Detroit, I still have to say that I'm more disappointed in Valpo's performance than everything:

- Outscored by 27 points in the final 21 minutes
- 2-for-18 from beyond the arc (started mindlessly jacking up 3's way too early)
- Gave up 11 offensive rebounds for 11 second-chance points
- Outside of Broekhoff and Van Wijk, the team went 7-for-29 from the field, including 2-for-14 in the second half (two non-100% players clearly can't carry a team to victory)
- 18 turnovers, gave up 20 points off turnovers (whereas we only scored two off turnovers)
- Valpo fouled Detroit four times in the first two minutes of the half
- Valpo had one timeout left with 10 minutes to go

Detroit definitely stepped up their defense in the second half, but I felt like Valpo helped them out too. Perhaps Detroit finally showed that they are the better team, but they are definitely not 20 points better than Valpo. Bryce himself admitted that it was one of their most sub-par performances this season.

[valpopal]

I think the poor performance by VU in the second half was a calculated move by the Crusaders. After witnessing the behavior of the Detroit fans throughout the first half, the decision was made to allow the Titans victory in the second half. After all, one can only speculate and envision the greater extent of large scale damages to the community those Detroit fans would have caused had they lost the game. /sarcasm

[valpotx]

a few students set your MLK Center on fire a couple years ago, spray-painted racist grafiti around campus

Fact check. Charges were dropped against the student originally thought to have been involved in the fire.  The other events that you noted occurred mainly in the town and at the high school with no connection that I am aware of to the university.  While the city itself was a hot bed of KKK activity in the 20's and 30's the university has worked hard to overcome the idea that while it is predominately white (German Lutherans tend to be Caucasian) all nations and races are welcome. I think the diverse makeup of the team shows that remarkably well.

Is there racism at VU? Most certainly, just as there is on any campus.  How did this become a racism thing??

Unfortunately, without going into too much depth to create more responses on such a topic, often people turn to that accusation when they feel someone's opinion is profoundly different than their own.  I haven't seen any indication by any poster that racism should have been accused on this forum, and feel it was thrown out there way too easily in this instance.

Back to the topic: we can only blame ourselves for the loss based on all that has been discussed.  Yes, we/I can be pissed at how unsportsmanlike their team was, but now we must move on to hopefully winning the NIT!

[KL31NY]

Link to Horizon League review of the championship game and post-game activities, featuring highlights and Ray's buzzer-beating dunk... no comment

http://bit.ly/xETmaf

[DCBaller]

I think you're all missing the point. Of course it is absurd to take that 2009 MLK incident and use it to make assumptions about Valpo students or the community at large, just as it is absurd to take the actions of a few students (or non-students, we don't really know) and make assumptions about the broader U of D student body, or the city of Detroit.

Throughout these threads, the youthful exuberance and passion of Ray McCallum, at times perhaps misguided in its manifestation, is being used to portray the whole team, and its coach, in a negative light (e.g. words like "thugs", "sleazy", and "classless" have been thrown around) Why? Because Ray pounded the floor on defense, and tried to fire up Detroit fans and players after he made big plays, and, well, because you lost.

So the whole point of referencing the 2009 incident is that there are bad seeds in both communities, but none of these things have anything to do with basketball or the outcome of yesterday's game, or the character of its participants, or the quality of the two schools.

[chef]

Baller what do you think about the video showing the fact he clearly looks at the clock before heading for the dunk, and then says afterwords that he thought the game was over? Does he really not understand that if the clock has time on it, the game is still in progress? I thought he made the dean's list? Sounds like a fine academic institution.

[valpotx]

Just for clarification sake, no one is saying that him pounding the floor to get amped on defense was bad sportsmanship.  That happens all the time, and is fine.  The instance at the end of the game people are referring to is when he was clearly thumping the basketball on our logo while looking down, as if he knew what he was doing (Terrell Owens on the Cowboys star).  This was just before he looked at the clock to make sure he could dunk it at the end.  Also, he was not looking at the fans most of the time when he was beating his chest, it was directly at the TV cameras, which was to the side of the fans in many instances (or on the court after a timeout was called).  He did do it the fans as well, which is perfectly fine, but making sure to cater to the TV cameras whenever they were around was a bit excessive.

[DCBaller]

chef - I'd call that irrational youthful exuberance. He shouldn't have done it. Please accept this sincere apology on behalf of the state of Michigan.  Let's take those two points off the board and call it an 18 pt win instead, k?

[valpotx]

You're not getting it baller.  Everyone's points are that he is immature and about himself.  Don't give me this 'youthful exuberance' crud.  When I was playing baseball at Valpo at ages 18-21, our players knew not to bunt when you are up 10+ runs, steal second or third when up by 10+ runs, etc.  This is stuff you grow up with if you are about sportsmanship.  No one is saying we should have won the game with how we played, we accept the loss.  We just hate the way our opponent handled themselves in victory, as we wouldn't have done any of that busch league crap.

[wh]

I think you're all missing the point. Of course it is absurd to take that 2009 MLK incident and use it to make assumptions about Valpo students or the community at large, just as it is absurd to take the actions of a few students (or non-students, we don't really know) and make assumptions about the broader U of D student body, or the city of Detroit.

Throughout these threads, the youthful exuberance and passion of Ray McCallum, at times perhaps misguided in its manifestation, is being used to portray the whole team, and its coach, in a negative light (e.g. words like "thugs", "sleazy", and "classless" have been thrown around) Why? Because Ray pounded the floor on defense, and tried to fire up Detroit fans and players after he made big plays, and, well, because you lost.

So the whole point of referencing the 2009 incident is that there are bad seeds in both communities, but none of these things have anything to do with basketball or the outcome of yesterday's game, or the character of its participants, or the quality of the two schools.

Like '04 already told you, come back tomorrow after we've all simmered down and we'll see everything your way.  It's kind of hard right now to accept your premise that God supports the use of player tampering in violation of NCAA rules in order to "save" certain troubled players, but then maybe it's just sour grapes on my part.  By tomorrow I'll probably see that the Detroit coaching staff is simply doing God's will.  Today I'm thinking that you played the race card in a cheap attempt to deflect blame away from the knucklehead players and fans that caused all of yesterday's needless drama.  By tomorrow I'll probably see it your way that we all have our good and bad points.  Who knows - by tomorrow I may even see you as a genius instead of my current impression of you as a big know-nothing blowhard. 

[DCBaller]

He didn't violate any NCAA rules and there were no violations. He had a corrupt boss in Sampson.  If anything blame Indiana for hiring a guy who had gotten into trouble at Oklahoma.  If you're boss was a jackass, would you want people to assume that you are a jackass too?  Is that fair?  Crean was desperately trying to hold onto players, and he is an extremely competitive guy, and Holman was a big recruit. McCallum recruited Holman to Indiana.  They were like family.  If you were Eli, would you have wanted to stay in Bloomington the last few years?