Facilities

[bigmosmithfan1]

Absolutely that. The exit of the Star Plaza leaves a gaping hole in the market for a mid-sized concert and event venue in NWI. There's a big piece of currently-vacant property adjacent to downtown Valpo where some creative minds could make a solution work for both the city/county and the university.

[usc4valpo]

Be careful, a facility on campus is a much better solution. Look at DePaul with their experience at Rosemont, not that their new solution has been a big success.

[ml2]

Absolutely that. The exit of the Star Plaza leaves a gaping hole in the market for a mid-sized concert and event venue in NWI. There's a big piece of currently-vacant property adjacent to downtown Valpo where some creative minds could make a solution work for both the city/county and the university.

The Star Plaza was located at one of the highest trafficked intersections in NWI (65 and 30) and presumably was not profitable (or else it's owners would have kept it open). I'm not sure why this experience would suggest that a facility located in Valpo would be such a money maker. In addition, there is a 2k-3k sized concert venue at the casino in Hammond, which I would guess can operate at a loss in order to draw people into the casino where the real profits are made. That would be extremely tough competition for any new venue in the area, and may have been part of the reason for the end of the Star Plaza.

[vuny98]

Absolutely that. The exit of the Star Plaza leaves a gaping hole in the market for a mid-sized concert and event venue in NWI. There's a big piece of currently-vacant property adjacent to downtown Valpo where some creative minds could make a solution work for both the city/county and the university.

The Star Plaza was located at one of the highest trafficked intersections in NWI (65 and 30) and presumably was not profitable (or else it's owners would have kept it open). I'm not sure why this experience would suggest that a facility located in Valpo would be such a money maker. In addition, there is a 2k-3k sized concert venue at the casino in Hammond, which I would guess can operate at a loss in order to draw people into the casino where the real profits are made. That would be extremely tough competition for any new venue in the area, and may have been part of the reason for the end of the Star Plaza.

If it's sole purpose was to be an event/concert destination I would agree, but at Valpo, it's mixed use would make sense. Basketball and other sports could fill most of the schedule and its ability to host concerts and other events would be an additional revenue stream, but not dependent on it.

[vu84v2]

A mixed use venue makes sense since it potentially creates a stable and larger revenue stream. However, Valpo should NEVER go off campus. Using the old hospital site for a mixed use venue makes a lot of sense, but even putting something downtown has real problems with having students be more involved or staying involved.

[vu84v2]

Be careful, a facility on campus is a much better solution. Look at DePaul with their experience at Rosemont, not that their new solution has been a big success.

Yeah - their new solution is not a success and may never be one because it is still not within easy walking distance for students.

I was visiting a small D1 school a few years ago - a school very similar to Valpo in size, students living on campus, and overall types of students. They showed me their really nice, though small (2000 seat), field house that they use for all sports except Men's basketball. They played Men's basketball about 12 miles away in an 8000+ seat arena in a larger adjacent city. Despite busing the students to and from games for free, their attendance at the stadium is awful despite being fairly competitive (not as competitive as Valpo).  When I asked why they didn't just play in the field house (and what they just didn't make the field house a little bigger), they said that the previous and current coach felt they needed a bigger arena to attract players...which makes no sense (they want to play in a big empty arena with no energy?). There is a similar story at UW-Milwaukee, though they have a much higher ratio of commuter versus on-campus students.

[VU2014]

Yeah I don't see the city and University being able to work together. There may not be a market for it. I'm not sure its a fit, specifically for the location. Under NO circumstances would I want the games to be played off campus. Like others have mentioned look at Depaul and even Bradley scenarios gone wrong. Northwestern is playing at the All-State arena this season and they are really struggling to get the students to go to any of their home games.

I'd love for this idea to happen but I don't see it happening on a project that big. Valpo could supply the land and maybe the costs could be split. Valpo is working with the city on the future aquatics facility. But generally it is very questionable when municipalities supply funds for arenas. It would be great for the University but questionable decision for the city. I just don't see it being a big enough economic benefit for the city.

I'd just like to receive some sort of official update on our future plans with a time frame.

[bigmosmithfan1]

The Star Plaza's demise can be traced to a) increased land values making the space more valuable for hotel/retail redevelopment and b) a failure to bring in top-tier rock, country and comedy acts like they did for the first 25 years of its existence. There wasn't a lack of profitability -- the facility was paid off long ago.

While not much can be done about A, there are several reasons why B occurred where Valpo is better positioned to fill that void than Merrillville was. More than ever, artist managers are very concerned about cannibalizing ticket sales, since touring is where musicians make nearly all of their money these days. Scheduling a concert 35-40 minutes from a Chicago date is a problem, where scheduling a show 75 minutes away is less so. Also, the proliferation of major Chicago festivals (Lolla, Pitchfork, Lake Shake, etc.) have introduced radius clauses, which prevent an act from playing another show within a certain distance for months before and following a show, taking a bunch of mid-sized and headlining acts off the board for upwards of six months each year. Radius clauses are typically 50 miles, so Merrillville would be blocked from hosting these acts but Valpo wouldn't.

To say nothing of the fact that any facility would not be as reliant on concerts/shows like Star Plaza was, because you'd have VU basketball as the main tenant.

And folks, I'm talking about the hospital property. So basically on campus.

Yeah - their new solution is not a success and may never be one because it is still not within easy walking distance for students.

Based on what evidence? DePaul is averaging 1,000 more fans per game vs. last year despite still being in last place in the Big East, and they still haven't played Marquette at home yet (always their highest-attended conference game). They have 3,000 students living two L stops away and thousands more attending class on their Loop campus daily. (DePaul nearly has as many students living in the South Loop now as they do in Lincoln Park). To say nothing of making it easier for DePaul alums working downtown to attend a game.

[crusader05]

ml2 is correct.

The casinos are much better built for concert venues and there are now several of them who consistently have decent people coming. The Star Plaza theater could not compete and I doubt that anything in Valpo could. There's just not enough people to support that many different types of venues. Especially when the others can boast hotels and extra entertainment ie slots, on site.

[vuny98]

ml2 is correct. The casinos are much better built for concert venues and there are now several of them who consistently have decent people coming. The Star Plaza theater could not compete and I doubt that anything in Valpo could. There's just not enough people to support that many different types of venues. Especially when the others can boast hotels and extra entertainment ie slots, on site.

For concerts, yes that is mostly true that casinos do a better job there. But casinos are all 21+ so you will get more concerts focused on an older crowd at those sites then you would a traditional concert venue. There is also the kid shows (Sesame Street Live, Paw Patrol Live, whatever else kids like these days) that used to take place at Star Plaza and now no longer have a home in NWI. There are enough shows to go around given that, again, it would be supplemental to the core use of the facility. You don't need to fill up 100 dates a year. Two dozen dates would be great.

Also, as was said before. Beer and wine. Especially if there is a desire to host non university events.

[VU2014]

Indiana State's beat writers thoughts on the ARC:
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865692056571904
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/958865599316230144
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865905609355264

[VULB#62]

Jeezzzzzzz?

[wh]

Indiana State's beat writers thoughts on the ARC:
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865692056571904
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/958865599316230144
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865905609355264

To Golden:

You are fortunate to have several million more  donors (myself included) than Valpo has. By the way, my next check will be in the mail on or before April 15th. You're welcome.

Get off your high horse.

[NativeCheesehead]

The OSHA thing is actually pretty funny.

[bigmosmithfan1]

Guys, rather than poke fun at the writers, let's admit that our arena is nowhere near up to par for a mid-major facility and push Valpo to improve it. And yes, the temporary press tables up on the track are hilariously bad.

[M]

There were plenty of chair back seats he could've sat in.

[VUGrad1314]

Indiana State's beat writers thoughts on the ARC: https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865692056571904 https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/958865599316230144 https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865905609355264

Golden is a tool. This is the same jerk who penned a polemic against the private schools of the MVC blasting their lack of competitiveness; meanwhile, the school he covers has consistently been an anchor among the public schools in the conference in virtually every sport. Have you heard of not throwing stones from glass houses dude? Take everything he writes with a huge grain of salt.

[Pgmado]

I'll say this...he has a point, but there's not much anyone can do about it. There really isn't anywhere "good" for the press to sit in the ARC for a variety of reasons. Press Row isn't actually a thing anymore as the school needs seats for the facility manager, marketing coordinator, the official scorer and several assistants, clock operator, shot clock operator, a second official scorer that keeps the official book, ESPN3 crew which features several positions, including PBP and Color. The opposing sports information director and possibly opposing radio unless they get moved up top.

The press have been moved to the track where they can't put permanent seating because...well, it's an indoor track. The tables they put on the risers are the best option despite the fact that the tables are pretty skinny and not anchored down. The challenge for the ARC is there is only one press row with the other side of the court lined with chairback seats. This is unlike any of the other arenas in the Valley that I've seen. Indiana State, Bradley and Illinois State had seating on press row while Northern Iowa had seating under the basket. I hear that Southern Illinois has some interesting seating alignments.

As much as I'd love to bitch and moan about being moved off the court (and plenty of former Valpo beat reporters have shared their displeasure with me), there are bigger fish to fry out there. At the end of the day I get paid to watch college basketball. Just give me a seat, power to plug in my laptop and working internet to send snarky tweets and pictures of koala bears.

[VU2014]

I'll say this...he has a point, but there's not much anyone can do about it. There really isn't anywhere "good" for the press to sit in the ARC for a variety of reasons. Press Row isn't actually a thing anymore as the school needs seats for... The opposing sports information director and possibly opposing radio unless they get moved up top.

Boot the opposing teams guys upstairs. Problem solved.

[NativeCheesehead]

Yeah, c'mon guys. Gotta have the seat on press row for the guy who plays the same 9 songs on the sound system every game.

[valpo84]

At one time (or maybe when the Horizon Conf tourney was held regularly at the ARC), didn't they set up press tables along the baseline near the concession stands?  I'm sure the writers on here can describe other not so primo press accommodations.  Heck, Duke's Cameron has some of the worst set ups for media.  The TV team is in the rafters and the writers are at tables in front (more in the midst) of the Cameron Crazies.  The students can reach out and help write the stories and amusing twitter posts. 

Do we need some upgrades for these types of things, yes.  Everyone on here get your checkbooks out.  Ones with at least 4 0's really help.

[VU2014]

The same Indiana State beat writer just excoriated the ARC in his article.

https://twitter.com/tribstarsports/status/959049968060215296

"I said it last year when ISU visited Valparaiso, when the addition of the Crusaders to the MVC was just speculation and not reality, but the Activities and Recreation Center needs some upgrades as it just isn't MVC-worthy.

The stands there look past their prime, from the seats themselves to the shop-worn wooden floors they sit on. There's no seats in one of the end zones and Valpo does it best by putting vendors and tables in there, but it doesn't look right.

It didn't help that the crowd just barely cracked 2,000. The bleachers on the second level on the south side of the ARC are massive and I can see where the atmosphere would be tough there if it was full, but the amenities are spartan even by MVC standards. Hopefully, Valpo invests in the facility for some upgrades."

[valpopal]

The same Indiana State beat writer just excoriated the ARC in his article.

[tweet]959049968060215296[/tweet]

"I said it last year when ISU visited Valparaiso, when the addition of the Crusaders to the MVC was just speculation and not reality, but the Activities and Recreation Center needs some upgrades as it just isn't MVC-worthy.

The stands there look past their prime, from the seats themselves to the shop-worn wooden floors they sit on. There's no seats in one of the end zones and Valpo does it best by putting vendors and tables in there, but it doesn't look right.

It didn't help that the crowd just barely cracked 2,000. The bleachers on the second level on the south side of the ARC are massive and I can see where the atmosphere would be tough there if it was full, but the amenities are spartan even by MVC standards. Hopefully, Valpo invests in the facility for some upgrades."

I thought the article was pretty good, fair and accurate. The commentary on the play by Indiana State reminded me of observations about Valpo in their losses—too many turnovers, poor free throw shooting, lack of a 3-point threat. As for the comments about the ARC, again he accurately echoes sentiments expressed on this board about the need for upgrades, and he points out that once again the attendance is pathetic, just above 2,000. (The official figure was only 9 more than at the Evansville game.) Finally, there were some nice photos with the article by one of our discussion board members.

[vuny98]

The same Indiana State beat writer just excoriated the ARC in his article. https://twitter.com/tribstarsports/status/959049968060215296 "I said it last year when ISU visited Valparaiso, when the addition of the Crusaders to the MVC was just speculation and not reality, but the Activities and Recreation Center needs some upgrades as it just isn't MVC-worthy. The stands there look past their prime, from the seats themselves to the shop-worn wooden floors they sit on. There's no seats in one of the end zones and Valpo does it best by putting vendors and tables in there, but it doesn't look right. It didn't help that the crowd just barely cracked 2,000. The bleachers on the second level on the south side of the ARC are massive and I can see where the atmosphere would be tough there if it was full, but the amenities are spartan even by MVC standards. Hopefully, Valpo invests in the facility for some upgrades."

Couldn't agree more with the assessment on the ARC... I've said it before, but there are some easy "relatively" inexpensive fixes that could be put in place to make the ARC better. How about replace all bleachers: make the North, West and South all chair-backs in a horseshoe, put bleachers on the open east end for the Student section and replace the bleachers in the upper level with chair-backs. With wider aisles/seats, you will likely lower the overall capacity, but that will result in a fuller house and a much more comfortable environment to see a game. That will vastly improve game day experience for all and it wont (shouldn't) cost so much that it can't be done in a years time.

I want a brand new ARC as much as others, but that's a 10-20 year project it seems. No reason to not improve what you can now while you plan for the future.

[bigmosmithfan1]

I didn't see anything untrue in his article. When the standard back-handed compliment for your facility is that it is "cozy like a high school gym" that's a sign that it's not up to current D-1 standards. At some point, you need to quit getting bent out of shape at the people who point this out as if they're some sort of outliers and do something about it.