Facilities

[vu72]

So I wonder what the clearance is at Hilltop?  As the 25' minimum is for facilities constructed after 2006 perhaps Hilltop would get a waiver given its age.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS6MK1PXIAAC4CD.jpg

Sure looks like it could be 25'.

[VULB#62]

It's a great outward-facing representation of the university.  All this with an endowment of ........ wait for this..........$25 million (source: Wikipedia: about 10.6% of Valpo's) and a tuition of #31K vs. Valpo's $36,280.  As FW noted, the enrollment is approximately equal. They also sponsor 28 varsity sports for men and women -- we do 19.   It's worth spending the time going to the links and reading the descriptions.

This difference in endowment really shows in net tuition costs to students.  All based on US News rankings from last year, Trine's tuition is 31,540 with an average financial aid package of 5,433 for a net cost of 26,107.  At the same time Valpo's tuition is 38,760 with an average financial aid package of 26,300 for a net cost of 12,460.

Add in  the fact that they are ranked No. 23 in the Midwest versus #4 for Valpo and that their engineer school is ranked #103 versus Valpo's #14 and the fact that no one has ever heard of Trine and I am not sure why the memory of a shiny new arena would cause a student to pick such a place.  They do have really nice athletic facilities as well as a very precarious financial position.

Good digging on the net tuition, 72. 

Here is a 2016 article perhaps answering your question above (bold is my emphasis):

Trine Tops Enrollment Record Again
Posted: Aug 15, 2016 10:17 AM CDT
Updated: Aug 15, 2016 10:17 AM CDT
By Andy Ober, Assistant Managing EditorCONNECT

Trine's fall semester begins August. 22.
Trine's fall semester begins August. 22.
ANGOLA -
Trine University in Angola says enrollment has hit an all-time high for the fourth straight year. The school says growing business, graduate and international student populations led to the record total.

In all, Trine is expecting about 4,800 students to be enrolled at its main campus, eight education centers and Peoria, Arizona campus. That is a 7 percent increase over last year. The majority of those students, about 3,650, will be enrolled at the main campus.

Trine is expecting 834 international students this fall, which is more than double last year's total of 365. The school says the number of graduate students is expected to jump to 592 from 338 in the fall of 2015. The Ketner School of Business is expecting 105 new students, up from 74 last year. That marks the largest class of new students in its history.

The northeast Indiana school is also moving forward with $4.5 million plans for the Thunder Ice Arena, which will house its new men's and women's hockey teams. In addition to the ice rink, it will include men's and women's locker rooms, concessions, a pro shop and other amenities. The university is also building a nearly 75,000 square-foot, 3,000-seat athletic and event center, which will host Trine men's and women's basketball games. That project is pegged at $11.5 million.

Trine's fall semester begins August. 22.[/font]

Yes, Valpo is higher rated, but I don't think that is the main point.  They obviously have a target admissions demographic (and admission standards I'm sure) that is different from ours, but aided by aggressive expansion of facilities (investing $16 million) and programs, they have been able to make themselves more attractive to that demographic and break admission records 4 years in a row. For instance, going back to 2011 they enrolled only 2,200 students but that was a 5.2% increase over 2010.  Meanwhile, Valpo, which quite a while ago announced a goal of increasing to 6,000 students, has not quite gotten there yet.  Given the two different environments, Trine seems to know how to achieve their goals a bit better.

[VULB#62]

So I wonder what the clearance is at Hilltop?  As the 25' minimum is for facilities constructed after 2006 perhaps Hilltop would get a waiver given its age.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS6MK1PXIAAC4CD.jpg

Maybe.  But why?  The ARC is fine for volleyball.  There are no fall conflicts.  And if you think complaining about the ARC's basketball environment by MVC teams is an issue, can you imagine the visiting teams' outcries if volleyball was pushed into Hilltop.  It also might be the basis for internal squabbling about how VB was "demoted."

[NativeCheesehead]

I had never heard of Trine before today. But this is what a PROACTIVE rather than REACTIVE athletic administration gets you. Well done for them.

[valpo84]

To answer a question earlier, Board members, past and present, are aware of this little ole message board.  It's been around for quite awhile.  It, however, is only one data point.  It has demonstrated good engagement of alumni and has had rational discussions and information from time to time. (This facilities argument has ebbed and flowed for what seems to be forever). Nonetheless, there seems to sometimes be a perception that this Board knows more (or should have more sway) about sports, marketing, facilities and what the Universities goals and objectives should be than those who are part of the University and Sports Administrations.  There are very knowledgeable people on that Board and in the ARC, and in particular the committees that have sports and marketing as a priority are well-versed in these areas. We're a small enough University that if you'd like to have one-on-one conversations or want to a send a letter, you should do so. Use the appropriate forums for those discussions.  This is just a message board.   For years, I sent letters to the administration lobbying for us to move out of the Mid-Con. One Board member over the years has been one of the most vocal and financially supportive basketball fans there is.  If anyone knows what is needed for the ARC, it's the administration and Board.  Would it be helpful to be more transparent with what the plans are and more importantly the timetables, absolutely. Is there a master plan for facilities--yes.  https://www.valpo.edu/masterplan/assets/docs/VU%20MP%20Exec%20Summary_final.pdf   

As I mentioned a couple days ago, and to paraphrase--talk is cheap; checks with 4 or more 0's talk louder.

[vu72]

So I wonder what the clearance is at Hilltop?  As the 25' minimum is for facilities constructed after 2006 perhaps Hilltop would get a waiver given its age.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS6MK1PXIAAC4CD.jpg

Maybe.  But why?  The ARC is fine for volleyball.  There are no fall conflicts.  And if you think complaining about the ARC's basketball environment by MVC teams is an issue, can you imagine the visiting teams' outcries if volleyball was pushed into Hilltop.  It also might be the basis for internal squabbling about how VB was "demoted."

No reason other then those September games where is is 90 outside and incredibly hot and humid (causing moisture on the floor) and dangerous.  Hilltop is now air conditioned with adequate seating for VB.

[VULB#62]

So I wonder what the clearance is at Hilltop?  As the 25' minimum is for facilities constructed after 2006 perhaps Hilltop would get a waiver given its age.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS6MK1PXIAAC4CD.jpg

Maybe.  But why?  The ARC is fine for volleyball.  There are no fall conflicts.  And if you think complaining about the ARC's basketball environment by MVC teams is an issue, can you imagine the visiting teams' outcries if volleyball was pushed into Hilltop.  It also might be the basis for internal squabbling about how VB was "demoted."

No reason other then those September games where is is 90 outside and incredibly hot and humid (causing moisture on the floor) and dangerous.  Hilltop is now air conditioned with adequate seating for VB.

Good point.  But I would view that as a last minute adaptation to deal with an atypical playing condition, don'tcha think?

[vu72]

So I wonder what the clearance is at Hilltop?  As the 25' minimum is for facilities constructed after 2006 perhaps Hilltop would get a waiver given its age.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS6MK1PXIAAC4CD.jpg

Maybe.  But why?  The ARC is fine for volleyball.  There are no fall conflicts.  And if you think complaining about the ARC's basketball environment by MVC teams is an issue, can you imagine the visiting teams' outcries if volleyball was pushed into Hilltop.  It also might be the basis for internal squabbling about how VB was "demoted."

No reason other then those September games where is is 90 outside and incredibly hot and humid (causing moisture on the floor) and dangerous.  Hilltop is now air conditioned with adequate seating for VB.

Good point.  But I would view that as a last minute adaptation to deal with an atypical playing condition, don'tcha think?

For sure.  Otherwise, as you suggested, VB would think they were being treated as second class citizens.

[talksalot]

Trine University used to be called Tri-State University...

1884
Trine founded as Tri-State Normal College by the residents of Angola, Ind., and the Commerce Building — now known as Taylor Hall — is constructed as the College's first facility.

2002
Tri-State accepted as a new member in the Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association (MIAA); the University celebrated its 100th anniversary of excellence in engineering; Witmer Clubhouse renovated and expanded; and the University approved as a graduate degree-granting institution.

2004
Tri-State attained NCAA Division III provisional membership; opened the $650,000 Ketner Sports Complex; expanded the University bookstore; and opened Trine Villas, some of the finest student residence facilities of their kind.

2005
The University graduated its first class of Master of Science in Engineering Technology students, opened Ingledue Villas, and broke ground on the $15.5 million Rick L. and Vicki L. James University Center and Center for Technology and Online Resources.

2008
Tri-State renamed Trine University, in honor of trustees Drs. Ralph and Sheri Trine, to better define its mission and direction; construction began on Golf Course Village, four student apartment buildings on Zollner Golf Course.

2009
Trine opened the Athletic and Recreation Center (ARC); began the transformation of Shive Field into the Fred Zollner Athletic Stadium; and began renovations on the T. Furth Center for Performing Arts.

2010
Trine opened Fred Zollner Stadium;

[talksalot]

oh, and there's this about Tri-State

Tri-State First meeting with VU 1926-27   Last meeting with VU   1984-85 VU lifetime record:  4-0; Most recently.... Jan. 5, 1985  Valpo Win 57-56

[VULB#62]

I had never heard of Trine before today. But this is what a PROACTIVE rather than REACTIVE athletic administration gets you. Well done for them.

But it is not the athletic administration.  Trine wants to grow and extend their brand.  This kind of proactive approach has to come straight from the top.  The top levels of Trine administration clearly have made a commitment to grow USING their athletic department, facilitiues and programs as way to embellish their brand to their targeted demographic and expand enrollment, which, as 72 pointed out in his net tuition figures earlier, means that tuition income (not including R&B and fees) results in much improved cash flow and that further improves as they grow the student body annually by 5%-7%. At a net tuition cost (per US News) of $26,107 X 400 new students, that brings in an additional $10,442,800.  If they add 400 each year, they add $10M each year to the previous year's income instead of maintaining a fairly flat income curve that depends on tuition increases to absorb cost increases.

[crusadermoe]

I think it is natural that the people on this board have a bias for sports facilities over non-athletic construction.  Unlike many message boards we feature well-reasoned comments from Valpo84, VU72, and dozens more.  They tout the overall vision and cite the realities of university issues. I concur in many respects.

My chief concern is enrollment. The campus has built core facilities like the library and the union on a very large scale designed for 6,000 students.  The facilities are not an end in themselves.  They are a means to the goal.  The masterplan linked to Valpo84's post cites "6,000 students within a decade".  Printed in 2013? 

Which facilities have the strongest impact on enrollment?  We all perceive that differently.  Could a stronger focus on athletic facilities help?  Perhaps not.  Enrollment is the key issue.  I am sure there is a strategy.  I need to accept the fact the VU current vision and strategy may very well be targeting students who don't care about hoops.  They may be fine with staging games without fans.  This new cohort of students may even not care about shared experiences.  It is a different university than the one I attended and loved.  I have to weigh my allegiance to the new vision.

[VULB#62]

Perceptive, Moe.  And you maybe spot on.

Enrollment is the key issue.  I am sure there is a strategy.  I need to accept the fact the VU current vision and strategy may very well be targeting students who don't care about hoops.  They may be fine with staging games without fans.  This new cohort of students may even not care about shared experiences.  It is a different university than the one I attended and loved.  I have to weigh my allegiance to the new vision.

But, if we are going after the type of students you characterize then we are in deep doo-doo. And if that is the case, why the hell did we move to D-I in the first place and then jump to the MVC?  None of the students you identify would even know what an ESPN crawler is or that there is a segment of college basketball called mid-major, or, if they did, even care. What a sterile vision into the future.

[78crusader]

The closing of the law school is going to cause, I believe, some fairly major headaches for VU and impact the board's decisions on facilities, at least in the near (2-5 year) term.

The law school is on the perimeter of campus.  It is not in an attractive area.  It does not feel particularly safe to me.  VU could get away with this location for the law school since, let's face it, law students were never considered a major (or even minor) part of campus and the administration figured the law students would be content with a building in the hinterlands.

Now the building has to be repurposed.  This will cost some fairly major bucks.  And who do you put there?  Nursing?  Business?  Those are two possible candidates, but the out-of-the-way location will be a drag on attracting kids who want to pursue majors in those two fields.  Who wants to spend most of their time cut off from the rest of campus?  To make the building "feel" like a part of campus, VU would have to commit to putting in another academic building nearby, and fill up the several empty lots in the area.  Several older homes and other residential buildings which may or may not be owned by VU would have to go -- they are, kindly speaking now, unattractive.  I doubt any of this will happen. 

This is a vexing problem for the administration.  Any option they choose will cost significant dollars and will take away from other building needs.  The board has signaled that remodeling dorms (rather than replacing them, which I would much prefer and which to me is a much wiser long-term decision) is the main priority over the next 2-4 years.  After that the second new science building will go up.  This has to be located right next to the new science building #1 for obvious reasons.

The fieldhouse needs to get built and it will, although I think it will be in stages.  (The absence of a fieldhouse is similar now to the absence of a proper art/music facility in the 1980s and the lack of a decent library and union in the 1990s -- it is a drag on enrollment.) This is unfortunate but the most likely outcome.  And getting to the first stage may take several more years.  As for the ARC, I very much doubt anything major will be done unless a donor steps forward with a specific gift, which is unlikely. That is the conclusion that others on this board reached several years ago, and with the problems created by the closing of the law school, this end game seems ever more certain than before.

Paul

[NativeCheesehead]

I'm sorry. This is Valparaiso. Not saying we don't have problems. But if there's any part of this town you don't feel safe in, I don't know what to tell you.

[FieldGoodie05]

The closing of the law school is going to cause, I believe, some fairly major headaches for VU and impact the board's decisions on facilities, at least in the near (2-5 year) term.

The law school is on the perimeter of campus.  It is not in an attractive area.  It does not feel particularly safe to me.  VU could get away with this location for the law school since, let's face it, law students were never considered a major (or even minor) part of campus and the administration figured the law students would be content with a building in the hinterlands.

Now the building has to be repurposed.  This will cost some fairly major bucks.  And who do you put there?  Nursing?  Business?  Those are two possible candidates, but the out-of-the-way location will be a drag on attracting kids who want to pursue majors in those two fields.  Who wants to spend most of their time cut off from the rest of campus?  To make the building "feel" like a part of campus, VU would have to commit to putting in another academic building nearby, and fill up the several empty lots in the area.  Several older homes and other residential buildings which may or may not be owned by VU would have to go -- they are, kindly speaking now, unattractive.  I doubt any of this will happen. 

This is a vexing problem for the administration.  Any option they choose will cost significant dollars and will take away from other building needs.  The board has signaled that remodeling dorms (rather than replacing them, which I would much prefer and which to me is a much wiser long-term decision) is the main priority over the next 2-4 years.  After that the second new science building will go up.  This has to be located right next to the new science building #1 for obvious reasons.

The fieldhouse needs to get built and it will, although I think it will be in stages.  (The absence of a fieldhouse is similar now to the absence of a proper art/music facility in the 1980s and the lack of a decent library and union in the 1990s -- it is a drag on enrollment.) This is unfortunate but the most likely outcome.  And getting to the first stage may take several more years.  As for the ARC, I very much doubt anything major will be done unless a donor steps forward with a specific gift, which is unlikely. That is the conclusion that others on this board reached several years ago, and with the problems created by the closing of the law school, this end game seems ever more certain than before.

Paul

Why do you sign your name?  Just curious.

[valpo64]

Most people who know of Valparaiso U. have no idea that the Law School is  out...and for that matter they don't care.  It is a non-issue as far as I am concerned.  As for the ARC, the renovations will come when a big time giver(s) is found, just like the way the Trine facilities were built.

[VULB#62]

Most people who know of Valparaiso U. have no idea that the Law School is  out...and for that matter they don't care.  It is a non-issue as far as I am concerned.  As for the ARC, the renovations will come when a big time giver(s) is found, just like the way the Trine facilities were built.

Maybe that is true but I challenge the big time giver idea. I believe that Tri-State/Trine freaking  did it by saying "what the hell, go for it" and just opened the checkbook,  And in less than 10 years doubled their enrollment while significantly improving their campus and brand. And they are D-III!!!!

And it appears that part of their strategy was to open satellite campuses. That is the same strategy that Concordia Wisconsin used  to get their enrollment over 5000.

[ml2]

Trine's investments in facilities are clearly tied to an enrollment strategy that is possible for them as a D3 but not for Valpo as a D1.

As a D3 Trine has limited travel costs and zero athletic scholarship costs. They finance the facilities with debt to attract aspiring student-athletes to bolster their enrollment. This is why they sponsor so many sports (21 NCAA sanctioned teams, plus two club hockey teams, men's bowling, synchronized skating and e-sports). And have such large rosters (26 listed for men's basketball). Trine's total NCAA expenses are just over 3 million dollars for 684 athletes (compared to 14 million for Valpo with more than 100 fewer athletes). At the average cost to attend Trine that another poster found, they can finance their entire athletic department with the tuition from around 125 student-athletes (Valpo would need closer to 640). Every student-athlete they can attract above that is helping the school's bottom line, including servicing the debt on their nice new facilities that helped attract the students in the first place.

It's an interesting and apparently successful model (although their officially listed undergrad enrollment is just 1,700 or about half of Valpo's). But it is not really replicable at the D1 level because of the significantly higher costs to field teams via athletic scholarships, increased travel, increased coaching costs. etc

Sorry for the long post - but the short version is that the line from new athletic facilities to new revenue is much more direct for a school like Trine than it is for Valpo.

[vu72]

As for 78's concern about re-purposing the law school, the Master Plan calls for relocating the Business and Nursing schools near the Union.  There is no way they would locate either on Old campus.  The University owns a LOT of land near or on old campus.  As I mentioned in a much earlier post, one idea which I heard from one of the Deans is to develop a retirement community from Valpo alums and others in this space.  This could be done in partnership with a private developer, cost the University little and create a loyal community to support the University in many ways.

As for facilities, I thought y'all would enjoy this video I found on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUg2I_W4SqY

[VULB#62]

Why won't nursing or business transition into the soon to be vacant law school facilities?  I think the 30 year master plan assumed the existence of the law school. But now it is off the table. What else might go in there?

[vu72]

Why won't nursing or business transition into the soon to be vacant law school facilities?  I think the 30 year master plan assumed the existence of the law school. But now it is off the table. What else might go in there?

Just because students walked from Wehrenberg and Alumni to Old Campus when we were students doesn't mean they would embrace the idea today!  The term "walking campus" surely doesn't mean over a mile one way?  The concept has always been to get everything to new campus.  Why would they reverse the pattern now?

[valpo64]

A little known fact is that Trine grads have one of the highest income per grad ratios in the Country.  These vwery well of people have contributed well when it comes to projects at the School.  In addition special Corporate gifts have benefited their athletic program,  such as the Zollner Corp covering their golf course , football stadium improvements, among others.  Monies for these projects have been raised behind the scenes for the most part.  While VU has prettry well kept up with our campus' academic and physical facilities and programs, I believe the step will be in the area of inter-collegiate  atrhletic facilites.  Sometimes these type of gifts have originated behind the scenes and then suddnely appear such as the new track, basketball wing and the b-ball endowment.  With the conference affiliation change many behind the scenes changes(Video studio/equipment, etc) had to be implimented.  I think that these improvements had to be done quickly as we had to jump at the chance to join the MVC on almost a now or never basis.   We were not in a position to have fund rasising efforts begin prior to joining the MVC as far as facilitiesd were concerned.  I am confident that MLaB and others are keenly aware of this need.  Who knows, maybe one of these days that big special gift will get the program started.  While many of us get impatient waiting,  remember....."patience is a virtue" and "sometimes the truth hurts."  GO VALPO!

[bbtds]

I had never heard of Trine before today. But this is what a PROACTIVE rather than REACTIVE athletic administration gets you. Well done for them.

You might not be as familiar with Trine because about 10 years ago they changed from Tri-State University.

[usc4valpo]

The ARC is not air conditioned? Seriously? At this day and age?