Facilities

[crusader05]

I do think there have been maybe some upgrades that don't effect the ARC but that probably help in recruiting such as the updated basketball wing and locker rooms and now the air conditioning in hill top gym. Maybe not help, but probably no longer hurt.

[VU2014]

The AC in Hilltop was a significant and much overdue improvement. Hilltop during the summers and early fall it can feel like a oven in there.

[VU2014]

Unnamed Wealthy Alum,



https://twitter.com/LoyolaRamblers/status/960557326993428480

[EddieCabot]

As a former athlete, I'd say playing time is probably the #1 driving factor in where a recruit goes.  #2 would be can this school get me to the next level (whether that be in athletics or in my field of study).  If 1 and 2 are both a yes, then it would probably come down to relationships and facilities.

Couldn't agree more.  If facilities were the key factor, Nebraska would be Champions (heck, they have TVs in the bathroom stalls) and Duke would constantly struggle with their old "gym".  Being successful can be a good thing (great to be part of a winning tradition) or a bad thing (sure doesn't look like I'll get any playing time).

Both Daniel Sackey and Javon Freeman were scheduled for multiple visits and cancelled them after seeing our "facilities".  I think the bigger complaint from our conference mates would be the intense atmosphere they face at the ARC.  Not so much this year but ask Florida State how much they enjoyed coming to the ARC.  Having a nice venue that is half full is not what we want even if the fans can get a martini and a massage.  What we faced at SIU is a different story.

Good points here.  As vu72 points out, high school kids often want to go to a program where they can play immediately ... this can make it hard for elite mid-majors to stay on top. 

[FieldGoodie05]

Unnamed Wealthy Alum,



https://twitter.com/LoyolaRamblers/status/960557326993428480

Looks like the guy that donated was a developer.  Court papers show he received a large sum by suing the gov't in Tucson for taking and underpaying for his acreage in downtown, to build a court house.  As much as $8.5 million on the propert alone.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1317309.html

[vuny98]

Facilities matter to recruits
Facilities can influence college choice for perspective non athlete students
Facilities impact attendance
Facilities impact school spirit and pride

Is it the number one factor in any of those, no. Can it be overcome, yes. Have we overcome it in the past, yes. Can we expect to consistently sustain overcoming those challenges while other schools, especially those in our own conference, are updating their facilities, thus widening the already very apparent gap. NO.

Better facilities = Easier to recruit better student athletes = Better chance at winning = more interest/higher attendance = Better experience for fans = easier to attract students interested in sports = rebuilding the Valpo culture = More school pride = Alumni donations, etc.

Facilities are not the the end all be all but it DOES MATTER.

[VU2014]

Better facilities = Easier to recruit better student athletes = Better chance at winning = more interest/higher attendance = Better experience for fans = easier to attract students interested in sports = rebuilding the Valpo culture = More school pride = Alumni donations, etc.

Facilities are not the the end all be all but it DOES MATTER.

I want to put this on a billboard right outside of President Heckler's office.

[VULB#62]

As a former athlete, I'd say playing time is probably the #1 driving factor in where a recruit goes.  #2 would be can this school get me to the next level (whether that be in athletics or in my field of study).  If 1 and 2 are both a yes, then it would probably come down to relationships and facilities.

Couldn't agree more.  If facilities were the key factor, Nebraska would be Champions (heck, they have TVs in the bathroom stalls) and Duke would constantly struggle with their old "gym".  Being successful can be a good thing (great to be part of a winning tradition) or a bad thing (sure doesn't look like I'll get any playing time).

Both Daniel Sackey and Javon Freeman were scheduled for multiple visits and cancelled them after seeing our "facilities".  I think the bigger complaint from our conference mates would be the intense atmosphere they face at the ARC.  Not so much this year but ask Florida State how much they enjoyed coming to the ARC.  Having a nice venue that is half full is not what we want even if the fans can get a martini and a massage.  What we faced at SIU is a different story.

Facilities matter to recruits
Facilities can influence college choice for perspective non athlete students
Facilities impact attendance
Facilities impact school spirit and pride

Is it the number one factor in any of those, no. Can it be overcome, yes. Have we overcome it in the past, yes. Can we expect to consistently sustain overcoming those challenges while other schools, especially those in our own conference, are updating their facilities, thus widening the already very apparent gap. NO.

Better facilities = Easier to recruit better student athletes = Better chance at winning = more interest/higher attendance = Better experience for fans = easier to attract students interested in sports = rebuilding the Valpo culture = More school pride = Alumni donations, etc.

Facilities are not the the end all be all but it DOES MATTER.

I agree with both of these posts and believe that neither cancels the other IMO. Our facilities are not at the same level as other MVC members, so it is a bit of a handicap that Matt just has to work harder at to overcome.  The sad thing is that if everything (playing time, winning tradition, possible pro try-out, intangibles, etc.. etc.) 72 and M state is even up between VU and some other mid-major school that a recruit is interested in, it can come down to which has a better basketball environment i.e., the arena where games are played and the practice facility in which the player will spend most of his basketball time.  In this one respect, we're at a disadvantage.   

[vu72]

it can come down to which has a better basketball environment i.e., the arena where games are played and the practice facility in which the player will spend most of his basketball time.  In this one respect, we're at a disadvantage.   

Let me be clear that I think it is well past time for ARC renovations. However, I think we may be overstating the effect on our players.  The "environment" at a game for the players has much more to do with the crowd influencing the other team's play and inspiring the home team's play.  Renovations, like better food, more bathrooms, chairback seating etc will influence and increase the environment for the fans,  not the players.

I really don't think a player is deciding to come to or not come to Valpo based on the seat comfort of the fans or their viewing angles.  They want crowd noise and support.  Now, having said that, to the extent that renovations can increase or maintain crowd numbers, I'm all for it.

[usc4valpo]

So if Hilltop Gym used to be an oven in the summer without AC, then what is the ARC currrently like in the summer? frugality has run amok in Crusaderland.

[VULB#62]

72, you are a valued recruit. You are on the fence about two programs. One is Valpo and one is, say, another private, Loyola.  Matt makes the last big push and gives you a tour of the empty MBB  facilities including the offices, BB locker room, practice gym, and the arena.

You next drive up to Chicago where Porter Moser gives you a tour of recently refurbished Gentile, the Norville  locker room and basketball office facility, and then shows you architect drawings of the new BB practice facility that starts construction this summer.

You will play college basketball for only 4, maybe 5, years.  All other things being equal (including coach personality and promised playing time) and with Loyola on the upswing and Valpo rebuilding in year one in the MVC, you now come face to face with a decision that will probably be influenced not only by the physical appearance of the facilities you were shown but also the more intangible judgment on which school seems to have made and is making a major commitment to ensuring the overall success and long term growth of the program.

I know which way, as an impressionable 18 year old with only a few years in college which way I would probably lean.

[valpospartan]

I'm watching the IU-Rutgers game and they talked about facilities, because Rutgers just got a 15 million dollar donation for athletic facilities.  Robbie Hummel mentioned that recruits do consider facilities. 

[M]

Guarantee they consider playing time and chance to go to the next level over facilities. I'm sure it's considered, but's it's not a top priority (and if it is a top priority then the recruit shouldn't be). As for the one in a thousand recruit that we might lose to Loyola 🤷‍♂️

[VULB#62]

Guarantee they consider playing time and chance to go to the next level over facilities. I'm sure it's considered, but's it's not a top priority (and if it is a top priority then the recruit shouldn't be). As for the one in a thousand recruit that we might lose to Loyola 🤷‍♂️

Head in the sand rationalization IMO. Moser, in 4 years,  has taken Loyola from joke to first. Playing time a factor? Definitely, but for a bottom feeder historical loser?  What talented player would want playing time in the MVC basement?  How does that translate to a pro contract? Moser coupled playing time with a mass of other attractions, and I argue facilities and visible, administration monetary commitment closed many of his recruiting deals.

[M]

Idk, I think you put way to much weight on the importance of facilities attracting recruits and you think I way under sell it. 🤷‍♂️

Until we lose a big guy who says, "I chose Loyola because they have a nicer gym with comfy seats for my mom to sit and a better concession area for my pops." It's gonna be hard to sway my opinion.

[FieldGoodie05]

Guarantee they consider playing time and chance to go to the next level over facilities. I'm sure it's considered, but's it's not a top priority (and if it is a top priority then the recruit shouldn't be). As for the one in a thousand recruit that we might lose to Loyola 🤷‍♂️

Head in the sand rationalization IMO. Moser, in 4 years,  has taken Loyola from joke to first. Playing time a factor? Definitely, but for a bottom feeder historical loser?  What talented player would want playing time in the MVC basement?  How does that translate to a pro contract? Moser coupled playing time with a mass of other attractions, and I argue facilities and visible, administration monetary commitment closed many of his recruiting deals.

Put up your $5,000,000 and I'll put up mine.  Just hush already...

[bigmosmithfan1]

Obviously, this argument has been going around for a while, but I will make the following points (yet again):

1. A facility by itself does not equal success. However, there is a big difference between recruiting as one of the smaller facilities but with the largest crowds in our old conference, and having the *dead worst* facility in our new conference, with multiple teams in the league that will outdraw us on the regular. As we are seeing, we will need to consistently attract a higher level of recruit than we did in the HL to be competitive in the MVC. And yes, facilities will matter to this level of recruit *because that is the standard they will be presented with by all our competitors*.

2. Commitment matters. Even if we still can win out on intangibles with recruits from time to time, we are still making it needlessly harder on ourselves and in essence making our coaches recruit with a hand tied behind their back. When a recruit walks into UNI or Missouri State (and no, I don't care that they are state schools - that's who were competing against now in the MVC) and then he walks into the ARC - an ARC with absolutely no plans in place to make improvements, no renderings, no nothing -- who do you think the recruit is going to think is more serious about their program and taking it - and them - to the next level?

3. Recruits may indeed not care about "fan comforts" and the like. That's also irrelevant because fans *absolutely* care about those things, and fans are the ones who buy tickets that sustain the program. We've talked a lot about attendance in here -- wanna know one big reason why attendance is so inconsistent? Lack of season ticket holders on the mezzanine, which means we're at the whim of a walk-up crowd every night willing to come sit in cramped, uncomfortable h.s.-style bleachers with no back support and having to trip over people (or climb up or down rows) to get to the aisle. Wanna sell more season tickets, ensuring larger crowds and more revenue? Make those seats something a fan wants to buy more than once or twice per year for the biggest opponents. Building your *season ticket holder* base is the key to sustaining your program's support over the long haul. And that means yes, fan amenities matter.

[vu72]

72, you are a valued recruit.

Thanks!  On a good day I can still touch...the net!   

[NativeCheesehead]

So much Loyola love on this thread, i'm thinking our student section leaders stopped in.

[usc4valpo]

When will Valpo reach this millenium and have AC in the ARC?

[wh]

McDonald's on Calumet is going through a major rehab right now - new brickwork and facade on the outside, complete remodel on the inside. Moreover, for weeks now, alternately, only the inside has been open as they've worked on the outside, and only the drive thru open when they're working inside.

And for what? I seldom if ever see the inside seating area full. Typically, it's not much more than half full, even at the busiest times. So here they are, spending an outlandish amount of money to serve the same food to the same customers at the same price. Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing.

[FieldGoodie05]

McDonald's on Calumet is going through a major rehab right now - new brickwork and facade on the outside, complete remodel on the inside. Moreover, for weeks now, alternately, only the inside has been open as they've worked on the outside, and only the drive thru open when they're working inside.

And for what? I seldom if ever see the inside seating area full. Typically, it's not much more than half full, even at the busiest times. So here they are, spending an outlandish amount of money to serve the same food to the same customers at the same price. Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing.

I disagree, presentation and brand is mostly what they are.  Quality of food is mehh, but those Golden Arches are worth their weight in gold.  I travel for a living and look for "known quantities" above all else.  If McDonalds in Valpo sizes markets slip on quality or presentation, ppl like myself rethink going there nationally.

Burger King cleanliness and presentation lost my business decades ago.  Brand is quite important.

[truth219]

So much Loyola love on this thread, i'm thinking our student section leaders stopped in.

Loyola students had great cheers/chants. When valparaiso would miss a free throw..."you let the whold team down". Then in the final minute.."this is our house". Our student section is awful. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[vuny98]

McDonald's on Calumet is going through a major rehab right now - new brickwork and facade on the outside, complete remodel on the inside. Moreover, for weeks now, alternately, only the inside has been open as they've worked on the outside, and only the drive thru open when they're working inside. And for what? I seldom if ever see the inside seating area full. Typically, it's not much more than half full, even at the busiest times. So here they are, spending an outlandish amount of money to serve the same food to the same customers at the same price. Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing.

I disagree, presentation and brand is mostly what they are.  Quality of food is mehh, but those Golden Arches are worth their weight in gold.  I travel for a living and look for "known quantities" above all else.  If McDonalds in Valpo sizes markets slip on quality or presentation, ppl like myself rethink going there nationally. Burger King cleanliness and presentation lost my business decades ago.  Brand is quite important.

I take it picking up on sarcasm is not your strong suit... re: "Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing"

[VU2014]

So much Loyola love on this thread, i'm thinking our student section leaders stopped in.

Loyola students had great cheers/chants. When valparaiso would miss a free throw..."you let the whold team down". Then in the final minute.."this is our house". Our student section is awful. 

It blows my mind how quickly the student section fell apart. There are some die-hards in the student but they need help. They are students sitting in other sections because they don't want to sit in a half empty student section and probably because they don't know any of the cheers. If you listen to the podcast the die-hards who are in charge of the student section don't even know what Valpo's cheers are!