Facilities

[UNIFTW]

Everything I listed outside of the major dome renovation will be private funded. I've heard much of the dome plans are private as well. The rough numbers I've heard bounced around,and nearly 100% confirmed by our AD, are about 100m for everything and about 60m-70m private funding through donors and naming rights and so on and trying to get more.

The dome is, from what I've heard multiple places, lookin to use a tourism grant from the state of Iowa due to how everyone in the state knows what it is and it is a destination for so many events during the year. Concerts, trade shows, national wrestling meets, athletic camps, state football semifinal and finals. It's used almost all the time and UNI sponsored events play just a small roll in that. Details yet to be ironed out, which is why all details aren't known but engineering and prints are done for it. Basically rebuilding the whole building in its place.


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[mj]

The note on PAGE 16 IS STARK and telling.  It is vague about "certain covenants" and ratios that lenders have attached to the loans.  BUT YOU CAN BET that the loans can be called in if Valpo doesn't hit the student enrollment and the Net tuition targets in the covenants.

So this is what is terrifying about using debt to build. Let's face it, if you're about to have your loans get called in because you don't have enough students, the temptation to lower your admission standards is huge. And when your reputation goes out the window, then...

[crusadermoe]

Hey moderator, we have some good dialog going about the university as a whole.   Maybe that doesn't belong on the "facilities" thread any more because most of the facilities thread is focused more tightly on athletics facilities and how they impact our MVC competitiveness.   #62 really outlined a key question with great detail.

Would you mind moving comment by MJ and the other the university-wide debt and overall facilities comments to a new or current thread under "General University". Perhaps call it Finances or put in under "Enrollment" since all the facilities decisions relate in some way to enrollment.

[FieldGoodie05]

Everything I listed outside of the major dome renovation will be private funded. I've heard much of the dome plans are private as well. The rough numbers I've heard bounced around,and nearly 100% confirmed by our AD, are about 100m for everything and about 60m-70m private funding through donors and naming rights and so on and trying to get more.

The dome is, from what I've heard multiple places, lookin to use a tourism grant from the state of Iowa due to how everyone in the state knows what it is and it is a destination for so many events during the year. Concerts, trade shows, national wrestling meets, athletic camps, state football semifinal and finals. It's used almost all the time and UNI sponsored events play just a small roll in that. Details yet to be ironed out, which is why all details aren't known but engineering and prints are done for it. Basically rebuilding the whole building in its place.


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Thanks for sharing UNI.  Keep the updates flowing please!

[valpo95]

The note on PAGE 16 IS STARK and telling.  It is vague about "certain covenants" and ratios that lenders have attached to the loans.  BUT YOU CAN BET that the loans can be called in if Valpo doesn't hit the student enrollment and the Net tuition targets in the covenants.

So this is what is terrifying about using debt to build. Let's face it, if you're about to have your loans get called in because you don't have enough students, the temptation to lower your admission standards is huge. And when your reputation goes out the window, then...

Let's dial back on the hyperbole here. Covenants are used by lenders to manage their financial risk should the borrower be unable to repay the money. It would be very unusual for a loan covenant to specify the number of students or the net tuition target. Usually, a loan covenant would have a loan to value ratio, or some kind of debt service coverage guarantee. So for an institution like Valpo, it might cap the total amount of debt compared to the current cash total value of the endowment. This would prevent Valpo from taking out a ridiculous a new loan (think hundreds of millions dollars of additional loans) without the original lender being paid back first. It is possible that a covenant would specify that the total net annual operating loss cannot exceed a certain value, yet Valpo is unlikely to be anywhere close to that second limit, and even then it would be tied to total operations, not tuition targets.

[NativeCheesehead]

We can debate this back and forth and back again, argue fiscal policy, etc. Bottom line is this: Do you trust the admin to handle this? If yes, no worries. If not, then that's a whole new ballgame.

[M]

I wish there was a way, and if there it please someone tell me, to block an entire thread from showing up on my screen.

[bbtds]

I wish there was a way, and if there it please someone tell me, to block an entire thread from showing up on my screen.

I use the "mark as read" method. I try to read everything but if the thread in general doesn't interest me than every time it comes up I mark the new posts "as read."

[ml2]

Bond documents from UNI in 2004 show that the McLeod Center was anticipated to cost $21 million, with $10 million borrowed, $9.25 million fundraised and the remainder coming from existing university funds. If what UNIFTW is reporting is correct, then UNI's new plans represent a huge increase in both fundraising and in the scope of athletic facility costs.

[UNIFTW]

Numbers are from our AD when he unveiled the plan last week, as well as some very connected to the department.

Yes our funding and donation levels have gone up probably 10-20 fold. Look at our ad success pre 04 and then post 04 across the board. In 2004 we were 20 years into being D1 and didn't really operate or deserve to be D1.  We were paying out basketball coach less than 150k. It's now over a million after everything is added in and it's 100% private funded. B

Our basketball coaches salaries are 100% private. Wrestling is 100% endowed. Football is almost fully private. Volleyball and women's basketball are mostly private.

Our scholarship club is setting record donations every year. Last week alone we had a one night auction dinner that raised over a quarter million dollars in just a few hours. Over a millions raised on 2018 alone last I had heard.

We have big donors and donors that want to have names on things. 2004 UNI wouldn't recognize 2018 UNI as the same university.


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[FieldGoodie05]

Numbers are from our AD when he unveiled the plan last week, as well as some very connected to the department.

Yes our funding and donation levels have gone up probably 10-20 fold. Look at our ad success pre 04 and then post 04 across the board. In 2004 we were 20 years into being D1 and didn't really operate or deserve to be D1.  We were paying out basketball coach less than 150k. It's now over a million after everything is added in and it's 100% private funded. B

Our basketball coaches salaries are 100% private. Wrestling is 100% endowed. Football is almost fully private. Volleyball and women's basketball are mostly private.

Our scholarship club is setting record donations every year. Last week alone we had a one night auction dinner that raised over a quarter million dollars in just a few hours. Over a millions raised on 2018 alone last I had heard.

We have big donors and donors that want to have names on things. 2004 UNI wouldn't recognize 2018 UNI as the same university.


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Painting with broad strokes...are your donors exclusively alumni?  Or are they from the surrounding community / business leaders?

[UNIFTW]

Mostly almost exclusively (I'd guess) alumni or very close ties to someone who went to UNI. Business that do a fantastic job donating that are owned and run by UNI alums. We have some pretty big alumni across the upper Midwest - and within the Cedar Valley.

Thanks to our strong business and cpa programs we have some people who have started some successful business (Goose Island for instance) or have multiple people on boards and higher positions at places like Hy Vee (not sure if that means anything to you over there but it's a huge thing around Iowa, SD, MO, MN, and NE) and Casey's.

That isn't to say we don't have good sized, even smaller donors, who have little to no connection to UNI but I'd guess the vast majority are strong ties.


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[NativeCheesehead]

That's great for UNI. Always good news when a conference mate is on solid footing, as most of the MVC is. Hard to compare them and us, however, for three simple reasons.
1.State
2.School
3.Money

Don't get me wrong, doesn't mean UNI, or ISUr, etc doesn't deserve their success. You still have to recruit, play, and win. But the money for facilities is usually there regardless. (See State, Chicago)

[UNIFTW]

That's an uneducated post. UNI gets very little state funding. Less and less every year on top of it. In fact, our donations set records every year because we push them too because our state funding is at an all time low and decreasing every year. You can get nearly 3 years of school at UNI for 1 year at Valpo. Money coming into the university from that aspect isn't even close. Couple that with something line 80% of UNI students living off campus and UNI loses 8,000 per student off campus and only gets tuition and fees which is less than 9,000 per student. On average Valpo is bringing in over 60,000,000 more tuition dollars a year than UNI is.

If the state was paying for the upgrades, sure you'd have a point. But they aren't. Our AD said that outside of a tourism grant for the dome no state or university money is in the plans to be used. The tourism grant comes from the department of tourism. Not the Iowa Board of regents that oversees UNI, Iowa and Iowa State or general state university funds from the state of Iowa. The BOR and Iowa have put a hault in every existing project in Iowa due to funding issues that have yet to be figured out in the state government at all 3 universities. The dome renovations would happen because it draws in over 100,000 unique patrons each year to events that are not university sponsored. It's used by the state athletic association. It's used for concerts for pretty big names. It's used for numerous trade shows (boat/RV, craft, home renovation, etc.). It's used for officially sponsored USA Wrestling wrestling tournaments. Its rented out to other colleges for use. It's rented to high schools for use. It's used for dozens and dozens of things and brings people from literally every county in Iowa every year for non UNI events. It is a tourist destination in that regard. If that grant doesn't happen the planned upgrades will be scaled back to fit those that can be privately funded.

So the real difference between UNI and Valpo when it comes to facility upgrades is alumni and donors stepping up at one place and afraid to at the other because of....I'm not sure even with reading this thread. UNI donors have decided that our athletic department, our student athletes, are worth investing in. We have had 32 players in the NFL the last 15 years. The publicity we get from those guys is immeasurable. The top 10 rankings and multiple NCAA tournament wins is immeasurable for value added. Increase in applications. Increase in donations. Increase in quality of applicants.

What UNI, and its donors, have learned since 2004 is that athletics is the best marketing tool you have as a university unless you are an Ivy or Patriot level level academic institution or a major R1. There is copious amounts of research to back that up.

There's a reason UNIs success followed the investment in the McLeod Center. It's a bit of chicken and egg. It doesn't promise better results, better recruits, better coaches, better donations but it sure doesn't hurt. If it didn't work people wouldn't be doing it. When the McLeod Center was being planned and fund raised UNI was a single digit win basketball team. Had been for 20 years sans 1991.

You can invest nothing in athletics and have some success but probably not a ton. The ad hoc backing to them keeping funding low is "see results don't show we should spend more. We aren't even good".

It's not just investing in facilities to be used in game days. It's investing in facilities to help the student athletes be better students and better citizens of the university and community during and after their time on campus.




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[UNIFTW]

I forgot to add 2 points

1. It's a money making investment over its lifetime. That's something out AD pointed out. Naming rights pay for years. Get renewed. More naming rights come out of it. Properly built facilities have spaces to be rented out for functions. Again, money making opportunities. Also in that getting people on campus and getting them involved in ways they may not have otherwise been. Creating new fans and donors.

2. By moving basketball and volleyball practices out of the general rec center courts and weight rooms you are creating more opportunities for the non athlete population. More classes can be scheduled. More time open for student use. It opens up many possibilities in the rec center.


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[usc4valpo]

Living in the Des Moines area, UNI alums provide much support and pride in their athletics, and generally the state schools in Iowa take high school and college sports very seriously. Going to high school games here is like reliving a Gil Thorp comic strip.

[valpo95]

That's an uneducated post. UNI gets very little state funding. Less and less every year on top of it. In fact, our donations set records every year because we push them too because our state funding is at an all time low and decreasing every year. You can get nearly 3 years of school at UNI for 1 year at Valpo. Money coming into the university from that aspect isn't even close. Couple that with something line 80% of UNI students living off campus and UNI loses 8,000 per student off campus and only gets tuition and fees which is less than 9,000 per student. On average Valpo is bringing in over 60,000,000 more tuition dollars a year than UNI is.

I'm not sure about the details about funding of the athletic department at UNI, or how much of student fees pay anything for salaries, administration, facility upkeep and the like. However, a cursory google search showed that UNI was awarded $83.2M in general aid from the State of Iowa in FY 2014. http://www.iowahouserepublicans.com/wp-content/uploads/Hein-Capitol-Update.pdf Someone could find other sources, but this one looks like it is in the ballpark. The total budget for UNI, ISU and UI from the State of Iowa was nearly $500M even this past year, and historically the universities operated on a 20/40/40 split of state allocations. Recall as well that UNI has about three times as many students.

Net tuition and fees at Valpo in the year ended 2016 (according to the annual report) was $76.4M. (This is stated tuition and fees less "unfunded" tuition awards and scholarships granted.). So it is not remotely possible that Valpo is bringing in $60M more tuition dollars than UNI, at least with the state funding included.

By the way UNI is a very fine institution. I have ton of respect for the school and the programs there. However, my main point is that they do get substantial state support.   

[UNIFTW]

Just tuition at Valpo is 36,000. At UNI it is 7,000. Valpo has roughly 4600 students per google. UNI has 10,000.

How many Valpo students live off campus? For every student on campus add in another 10k for that expense. UNI has the extreme majority off campus. About 7-8000 live off campus.

That's a money loss for UNI.

Again state money has nothing to do with these upgrades and buildings. It's UNI fans and alumni going "we get it. We want the best for our student athletes. WE will take the responsibility to fund it. We won't wait for the university to pay for it. We won't wait for the state to pay for it. WE will pay for it.

Valpo fans and alumni have made it clear, on here and through donations, that you don't have the support to do anything like this. Southern Illinois lost 44 million dollars in state funding in the last half decade. They still found donors and ways to renovate their arena and build a brand new football stadium.

This isn't about state money. Loyola isn't getting state money. Drake didn't get state money for their practice facility. Creighton has no state money for their facilities.

This is donors going "we want to push our university forward. We want to grow. Be better. How can we help?"  If Valpo doesn't have that and can't get that it confirms every MVC fans fears about Valpo being added to the MVC. It's just another Evansville.




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[UNIFTW]

It's also incredibly dumb to complain about stage funding. It's a state university. The state owns it. The state is the stake holder. Just as your stakeholders fund you.

Maybe UNI should charge 30,000 more for tuition.


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[vu72]

If Valpo doesn't have that and can't get that it confirms every MVC fans fears about Valpo being added to the MVC. It's just another Evansville.

You sound like a guy with a good basketball team!  You've been in The Valley for many years.  We have been in for one.  After losing three starters including an NBA pick, and then losing our best remaining player half way into the season, you punished the new kid by a whopping five points per game.  We'll see how you feel after this next year.

And as for tuition, there is a reason kids pay 30,000 more at Valpo than at UNI.  First it is private and not state supported.  I think you can figure out the other factor.

[NativeCheesehead]

[FieldGoodie05]

It's also incredibly dumb to complain about stage funding. It's a state university. The state owns it. The state is the stake holder. Just as your stakeholders fund you.

Maybe UNI should charge 30,000 more for tuition.


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State schools and private are two different animals.  Although they contend in the sports arena, I am not sure that Valpo and UNI contend a lot for the students.  This is not a comment on level of education, because that would be silly to argue over.

When I was at VU in 2001 I paid approximately 50% of full asking price by being an athlete and other academic scholarships.  In today's scenario that would be $18,000/year.

UNI you said was $7,000/year?  Let's add in the state subsidies reported to be $83.2 million in 2014 and divide the number of students.  That could mean the state is off setting $8,320/student/year in 2014.

$7,000 tuition
$8,320 subsidies
$15,320/student

This is not likely the exact number, just as VU isn't taking in $18,000 on every student.  So admittedly we continue to discuss hypotheticals.

UNI
-has roughly 6,000 more paying students
-is in a market 2x as big as Valparaiso
-has municipal arenas that they share and get state money on
-has a legit football program with big time alumni

I want you guys to thrive, that means we get to compete at higher and higher levels.  I think you will find that most of us are happy to see UNI succeed on the arena front and sports programs in general.

[UNIFTW]

If Valpo doesn't have that and can't get that it confirms every MVC fans fears about Valpo being added to the MVC. It's just another Evansville.

You sound like a guy with a good basketball team!  You've been in The Valley for many years.  We have been in for one.  After losing three starters including an NBA pick, and then losing our best remaining player half way into the season, you punished the new kid by a whopping five points per game.  We'll see how you feel after this next year.

And as for tuition, there is a reason kids pay 30,000 more at Valpo than at UNI.  First it is private and not state supported.  I think you can figure out the other factor.

Education quality isn't any different. There is a D3 13 miles north UNI that 40k a year. I promise you it's not worth it. No one is going to be picking between someone and go "oh he went to Valpo and he want to Northern Iowa. That's a duh". Nope.

There are about 20 schools that works for. Valpo isn't one. Nor is UNI.

That is still ignoring that all of these upgrades are 100% private funding. If Valpo had the support for a 25m practice facility there wouldn't be a thread that is YEARS long debating of facilities are even worth investing in at all beyond bare minimum maintenance.

Being poor on your first MVC go around isn't a reason to go "it was our first year, in 30 years we will have a facility."  You dominated the HL for a decade. Shouldn't your fan base already be big and strong? Shouldn't the donors already be there? Wasn't a selling point the strength of the fan base and donors?

I'm not saying everyone needs a multi level practice facility or anything close to that. What I saw as an interesting debate is donor support and why something couldn't come through that avenue rather than simply waiting for university funds be be available - which isn't going to happen at any non major P5 school.


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[vu72]

I have a Valpo classmate who also has two sons at Valpo now, although one is graduating shortly.  He and his wife are far from wealthy.  What they discovered is that comparing the net cost of going to Valpo versus state schools (they live in Illinois) is very similar.  Given the academics at Valpo, the decision was very easy. 

[UNIFTW]

Illinois is tough to compare in state costs too. It is cheaper for someone to pay 40,000 out of state tuition at Iowa than in state at Illinois. It's why UIowa is like 48% Illinois students.


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