Facilities

[IrishDawg]

To be fair, I don't think renovating the ARC is like renovating a single family home... it's a lot harder the piece meal things together and make it turn out looking good. That's my 2cents for whatever it's worth, but I'm no contractor or architect, so what do I know.

What I took from the article is that the buy-out revenue is going to be used to buy home games, and the money for an ARC renovation is completely separate. It's much better financially for the school to get it done all at once, especially since it's mostly cosmetic upgrades, and if there is a recession on the horizon, they'll absolutely want to secure funding now.

I do think it's interesting that they waited until the President announced his retirement to make this funding push for the school's most well-known commodity, but could be coincidence.

[NativeCheesehead]

What was once just the title of a mediocre romantic comedy starring Ryan Reynolds that my wife made me sit through many years ago is now MLBs go to answer when it comes to ARC renovations:

"Definitely, Maybe"

[M]

This thread has reached 50 pages...not sure how to appropriately react to that.

[VU2014]

It's the 800 pound gorilla in the room that everyone wants to talk about. I understand the intrigue and concern about this topic but sometimes I just get a little tired of it because it really is as simple as getting the funding and then it will get renovated. Unfortunately funding something that large is a massive undertaking and not so simple a task

[usc4valpo]

Perhaps it is a very important topic requiring attention.

[vu72]

I thought I might just add a little "hope" to this thread.  Obviously, I won't disclose who told me this but will say it is an alumni who is well connected.  In addition, I was visiting the ARC during Homecoming and stuck my head into watch a Women's Basketball practice.  While standing there, an elderly gentlemen and friends walked in and I overheard him describing possible changes to the ARC like new seating, new lights etc., as if he had direct knowledge as to the renovation plans.

As for what I heard, it is as follows:  The President wants the renovations to start before he departs.  The search for his replacement is currently underway...

[VUGrad1314]

OH GOD YES! THANK YOU! PLEASE BE TRUE!

[NativeCheesehead]

Me hearing ARC Reno rumors:

[usc4valpo]

My daughter and we're at UNI today on a visit day as she narrows down her college search. They showed the McLoed Center, which is their multi purpose arena. It is very practical, beautiful, has a 7000 seat capacity and looks like a great place to watch basketball and other sports. This is the kind of facility Valpo needs for many of their needs.

[VULB#62]

Saw they  had a Brad Paisley concert there and various other events that would be attractive to more than just sports fans.

[VUGrad1314]

My daughter and we're at UNI today on a visit day as she narrows down her college search. They showed the McLoed Center, which is their multi purpose arena. It is very practical, beautiful, has a 7000 seat capacity and looks like a great place to watch basketball and other sports. This is the kind of facility Valpo needs for many of their needs.

Well said. I've long felt that UNI is the program we need to be emulating for our best chance for success in the MVC.

[vu84v2]

UNI's McLeod Center cost $26M when it was built, which would be about $32M in today's dollars. Gonzaga built a similar 6000 seat stadium and it was roughly the same price in today's dollars, so we can assume that a similar stadium would be about $32M for Valpo. What is the business plan that would justify a capital spend of $32M to replace the ARC? If you were investing your money, do you think that this would be a good investment versus other options (renovation of the ARC) and needs (old dorms and business building)?

[VULB#62]

UNI's McLeod Center cost $26M when it was built, which would be about $32M in today's dollars. Gonzaga built a similar 6000 seat stadium and it was roughly the same price in today's dollars, so we can assume that a similar stadium would be about $32M for Valpo. What is the business plan that would justify a capital spend of $32M to replace the ARC? If you were investing your money, do you think that this would be a good investment versus other options (renovation of the ARC) and needs (old dorms and business building)?

Good info 84.  Thanks for that perspective.  It certainly skews thinking towards an ARC renovation.  And even that will be costly but more justifiable and in line with other campus facilities demands.  A conversion to a  comfortable 5K-6K capacity arena (assuming that the north side will be expanded on the ground level for athletic support facilities, additional restrooms, concessions,  etc., etc., and a second level would add some more seating above) would IMO be the ultimate goal.  In the meantime, there are still incremental, non-capital construction improvements that would transition well toward that goal, e.g,  new sound system and AC (both sized to support the future expansion) and improved LED court lighting.

[4throwfan]

UNI's McLeod Center cost $26M when it was built, which would be about $32M in today's dollars. Gonzaga built a similar 6000 seat stadium and it was roughly the same price in today's dollars, so we can assume that a similar stadium would be about $32M for Valpo. What is the business plan that would justify a capital spend of $32M to replace the ARC? If you were investing your money, do you think that this would be a good investment versus other options (renovation of the ARC) and needs (old dorms and business building)?

Good info 84.  Thanks for that perspective.  It certainly skews thinking towards an ARC renovation.  And even that will be costly but more justifiable and in line with other campus facilities demands.  A conversion to a  comfortable 5K-6K capacity arena (assuming that the north side will be expanded on the ground level for athletic support facilities, additional restrooms, concessions,  etc., etc., and a second level would add some more seating above) would IMO be the ultimate goal.  In the meantime, there are still incremental, non-capital construction improvements that would transition well toward that goal, e.g,  new sound system and AC (both sized to support the future expansion) and improved LED court lighting.

I'm not so sure that the University should strive to have a larger facility, but should strive to have a nicer facility.  Attendance across all sports is on a downward trend.  If the trend over the last 10-15 years at VU continues, then average attendance per game for MBB in 10 years will be around 2000.  If VU isn't selling out a 5000 seat arena, why increase capacity, even if downward trend levels off?  Seems to me that the effort should be toward improving.  For example, additional restroom facilities, additional concessions, and better parking.

[vuny98]

Good info 84.  Thanks for that perspective.  It certainly skews thinking towards an ARC renovation.  And even that will be costly but more justifiable and in line with other campus facilities demands.  A conversion to a  comfortable 5K-6K capacity arena (assuming that the north side will be expanded on the ground level for athletic support facilities, additional restroo

UNI's McLeod Center cost $26M when it was built, which would be about $32M in today's dollars. Gonzaga built a similar 6000 seat stadium and it was roughly the same price in today's dollars, so we can assume that a similar stadium would be about $32M for Valpo. What is the business plan that would justify a capital spend of $32M to replace the ARC? If you were investing your money, do you think that this would be a good investment versus other options (renovation of the ARC) and needs (old dorms and business building)?

Good info 84.  Thanks for that perspective.  It certainly skews thinking towards an ARC renovation.  And even that will be costly but more justifiable and in line with other campus facilities demands.  A conversion to a  comfortable 5K-6K capacity arena (assuming that the north side will be expanded on the ground level for athletic support facilities, additional restrooms, concessions,  etc., etc., and a second level would add some more seating above) would IMO be the ultimate goal.  In the meantime, there are still incremental, non-capital construction improvements that would transition well toward that goal, e.g,  new sound system and AC (both sized to support the future expansion) and improved LED court lighting.

I'm not so sure that the University should strive to have a larger facility, but should strive to have a nicer facility.  Attendance across all sports is on a downward trend.  If the trend over the last 10-15 years at VU continues, then average attendance per game for MBB in 10 years will be around 2000.  If VU isn't selling out a 5000 seat arena, why increase capacity, even if downward trend levels off?  Seems to me that the effort should be toward improving.  For example, additional restroom facilities, additional concessions, and better parking.

Make all seats chair backs, widen aisles and improve access to seats. Make lower portion a bowl. North end put suites where the track is. To the point above, that likely keeps capacity roughly equal to where it is at today (maybe even reduces it a bit) but greatly improves comfort. Don't need a brand new building. ARC has the bones to be a great facility for a school our size. Just needs a few million dollars worth of TLC.

[FieldGoodie05]

UNI's McLeod Center cost $26M when it was built, which would be about $32M in today's dollars. Gonzaga built a similar 6000 seat stadium and it was roughly the same price in today's dollars, so we can assume that a similar stadium would be about $32M for Valpo. What is the business plan that would justify a capital spend of $32M to replace the ARC? If you were investing your money, do you think that this would be a good investment versus other options (renovation of the ARC) and needs (old dorms and business building)?

Good info 84.  Thanks for that perspective.  It certainly skews thinking towards an ARC renovation.  And even that will be costly but more justifiable and in line with other campus facilities demands.  A conversion to a  comfortable 5K-6K capacity arena (assuming that the north side will be expanded on the ground level for athletic support facilities, additional restrooms, concessions,  etc., etc., and a second level would add some more seating above) would IMO be the ultimate goal.  In the meantime, there are still incremental, non-capital construction improvements that would transition well toward that goal, e.g,  new sound system and AC (both sized to support the future expansion) and improved LED court lighting.

I'm not so sure that the University should strive to have a larger facility, but should strive to have a nicer facility.  Attendance across all sports is on a downward trend.  If the trend over the last 10-15 years at VU continues, then average attendance per game for MBB in 10 years will be around 2000.  If VU isn't selling out a 5000 seat arena, why increase capacity, even if downward trend levels off?  Seems to me that the effort should be toward improving.  For example, additional restroom facilities, additional concessions, and better parking.

Completely agree, a 5,000 seat arena is not my vote.  Strive for 4,200 seats and work towards sell outs.  Anything smaller than 4,000 seats would "seem" tiny (no facts or figures behind that, just a feeling).  If we sell out an arena with creature comforts (ac), updated lighting, sound, video screens and permanent seating I don't think many can be justified in their complaints.  Valpo is cornfield adjacent with large cities within driving distance that have arenas and entertainment venues.  Our student body is routinely between 3,500 and 4,500 and a venue arena is just not feasible.  I think trying to attract entertainment acts to our "upgraded" arena is not going to cover the added costs associated with making it lucrative (more seats etc etc).

[VULB#62]

4k, 5k 6k whatever, the goal has got to be comfort AND appearance (uh, like a college arena and not a glorified HS gym).  It is my belief that cannot be done using the existing footprint - squeezing 10 lbs. of apple sauce into an 8 lb. can. The north side must be developed to facilitate any major makeover in order to have the ground floor space for additional rest rooms, concessions, and to reduce the overcrowding in the locker area on the south side. By expanding to the north all of the other suggestions below can be more easily accommodated.

[4throwfan]

4k, 5k 6k whatever, the goal has got to be comfort AND appearance (uh, like a college arena and not a glorified HS gym).  It is my belief that cannot be done using the existing footprint - squeezing 10 lbs. of apple sauce into an 8 lb. can. The north side must be developed to facilitate any major makeover in order to have the ground floor space for additional rest rooms, concessions, and to reduce the overcrowding in the locker area on the south side. By expanding to the north all of the other suggestions below can be more easily accommodated.

I could be sold on adding some sort of promenade on the north side behind the Chairbacks that would add different things.  For me, the other important changes/improvements would be adding chairbacks to the south side, and adding some close parking. 

I'm not sure that the improved parking thing is going to happen, since good parking part of fundraising - I doubt that the university is going to change the business model for that.

[FWalum]

4k, 5k 6k whatever, the goal has got to be comfort AND appearance (uh, like a college arena and not a glorified HS gym).  It is my belief that cannot be done using the existing footprint - squeezing 10 lbs. of apple sauce into an 8 lb. can. The north side must be developed to facilitate any major makeover in order to have the ground floor space for additional rest rooms, concessions, and to reduce the overcrowding in the locker area on the south side. By expanding to the north all of the other suggestions below can be more easily accommodated.

I am in agreement that adding seating is not a priority.  I do think we have to remember that the facility is also used for things like graduation.  Niece graduated this Spring and the place was packed to the point of being very uncomfortable, especially without AC.  If you take away 500 to 1000 seats I really don't think this is feasible unless events like Spring graduation can be moved to another larger location.

[usc4valpo]

Build something like Drake or UNI. Renovating the ARC to meet Valley standards will NOT work.
6000 seats.
Get corporate sponsorship.
Have concerts and conventions, thus include good accoustics.

[NativeCheesehead]

I thought it would have made sense a few years ago for the city and Vu to team up on a multi purpose venue once the Star Plaza shut down.

[vu84v2]

Valparaiso is not a desirable place for concerts or conventions. I am all for including them as upside in a business plan - but they are not something that you can build a sound plan around.

You could get corporate sponsorships, but it is very doubtful that it would be significant. Again, it is Valparaiso not Des Moines (Drake) or a university with much larger enrollment (Northern Iowa).

Again, the pricetag for a new stadium is likely around $32M...if they built a 5000 seat stadium it would not go down much from the other price points in my previous post. If they found a major donor to fund it – great, build it. But if not, Valparaiso cannot realistically afford it. Remember, the number of high school graduates will decline going forward and will be much lower around 2026 (people stopped having babies during the recession). So revenue will decline either from fewer students or deeper discounts to stay competitive. Some may argue for the 'big bet', but losing that bet risks the sustainability of the university. Renovate the ARC in the best, reasonable possible manner.

[vu84v2]

I thought it would have made sense a few years ago for the city and Vu to team up on a multi purpose venue once the Star Plaza shut down.

Sure, if it is on campus or right next to campus (within 5 blocks). The ideas mentioned, to my memory, involved building more towards the northern part of town. Valparaiso is better playing basketball in the ARC, as it is, then playing outside of walking distance for students.

[usc4valpo]

Valpo is fundraising $250m, quit showing so much frugality and make a move.if you want to be in the Valley, prove it.

[vu84v2]

It is not that simple. They are raising $250M in endowment, which is structured to run in perpetuity and is not (to my knowledge) generally applied to capital. By raising $250M in endowment, any university generally plans to invest the money and always retain the principle. Thus, if you assume a 6% annual rate of return, Valpo would spend $15M per year from the endowed money. Additionally, while that is a lot of money in a given year, a substantial portion of endowment money is tied to specific uses (my guess is that the most common is scholarships). And if, by chance, Valpo can use some of the principle towards capital (which I doubt), they still cannot use money in ways different than what was agreed to with the donor.

Raising $250M in endowment is definitely the right thing to do, as it increases the sustainability of the university. This might create some sort of indirect effect to free up other funds for capital programs, but it is likely not as much as you might think.

(this is my general knowledge of endowments, including knowledge from some minimal interaction with Valpo. If someone has better knowledge of how Valpo structures endowments, please correct me)