Facilities

[vu72]

I have read numerous opinions posted here about our basketball facilities.  You know, stuff like, "our coaches do an incredible job given the facilities at least as they compare to other Horizon league teams"... or some such thing.

Call me naive, call me uninformed, call me whatever, but, I just don't get it. Is it the ARC as a venue?  Too small, "high school like", so we don't attract top talent?  Is it the practice venue, so the Hilltop renovation just doesn't cut it?  Is it the locker room?  Is it the weight training facility? What is it that will satisfy everybody and if we had it, would we be better? Really better--like in spending the millions suggested to meet the affore mentioned  inadequacies.

So, let's look around the league.  Loyola has a brand new arena.  How did that work out for them? Wright State apparently has the best practice facility.  Working for them?  For that matter think outside the league.  How about Nebraska with flat screens on the inside of the toilets. Great year for them.

This arms race has to stop and I think Valpo is the prime example of why.  Let's start with the ARC.  Should it be remodeled? Sure.  Should it seat 10,000 or 12,000 or whatever the "best" in the league seats?  Ridiculous.  Ray McCallum said it best when he said that the ARC provides the best home court advantage in the conference.  I could go on.

The point is, the players have come, and they continue to come not because of adjustable height baskets or tv's in the can. They come because of the coaches, the education and the history, not in spite of all the inadequacies.

We got Ryan Broekhoff to come half way around the world to play for us.  I don't think he would have considered Cleveland State because their gym seats more people.

[sectionee]

I think the key is getting recruits to visit when the place is packed to witness first hand that home court advantage.  Upgrading the facilities is not in the immediate future so showing them in person what it is like when the ARC is full of Crusader fans is our advantage in recruiting. 

[valpotx]

I tend to agree.  For the type of recruit we are wanting, they aren't usually the type that is expecting 10,000-12,000 people in the stands.  We upgraded the scoreboard, provide an intimate atmosphere that players feed off of, and have a great supporting staff.  Let our opponents call our gym a 'high school gym,' as it isn't like many of them are able to win at the ARC, so it is doing what any school would hope for...

[valpopal]

This seems the perfect time for VU to make a commitment to a specific upgrade in the athletic facilities, especially for basketball, which is the one sport that receives significant national attention every year and thus would garner fine returns in promotion of the university as a whole.

Look at the combination of factors that make this an ideal situation for upgrading. The university has just purchased a large parcel of land where a first class facility could be built. The team has achieved success as regular season champions of the Horizon League for the first time, and the prospects for next year are excellent. The Crusaders have a new coach who has proven himself and whom the university would like to keep in the future, someone whose image would be complemented by a new or renovated arena.

Loyola has shown how a terrific modern facility could be built while maintaining an intimate atmosphere. In fact, the capacity for the Gentile Arena is about the same as that of the ARC. The ability to recruit players would be enhanced, and the possibility of reinvigorating local support, especially with some local recruits beginning in 2013, would be a benefit.

As President Heckler once stated: "We have to determine the best long term strategy to enhance our vibrant and competitive basketball programs, and to do that in a away that will attract accomplished scholar-athletes to Valpo."

[vufan75]

My understanding from what I had either read or heard somewhere was that as head coach Homer asked more than once for improved facilities for basketball. He apparently saw needs he deemed important and asked for improvements? I would personally think his credentials and resume as head coach and recruiting "closer" would carry a lot of weight, at least they would for me. I could only guess that Bryce sees needs as well, though I've not read or heard anything to verify that?

The capital improvements I suggest are needed are more for fan comfort than anything. Some examples I would rank high in any update would be chairback seating w/cup holders on the entire lower level, more concession areas, more restrooms, etc. I think the locker room areas have been remodeled and updated over the last several years, so perhaps they are good as is? Is the media room too small? Perhaps one of our board experts could speak to that. Based on attendance I don't think we need a larger arena in terms of seating capacity. I'd suggest the 5,000-7,000 range, depending on various architectural and construction issues, constraints, costs. I would consider improvements an investment rather than an expense, as the exposure Valpo gets from being on local or national cable tv is certainly valuable, though hard to measure. So many people still know of Valpo for it's basketball program. It is a tool that we should or maybe already do utilize as one way to get our foot in the door for not only basketball recruiting targets, but all potential students.   

[DMvalpo18]

If you guys watched the HLN interview with Homer, he talked President Heckler and Mark LeBarbera being committed to facilities and understanding the importance of them. Then he mentioned plans (whatever time period that means) to eventually renovate the ARC or build a new facility. He also mentioned plans for a track fieldhouse on the current site of the hospital.

[VULB#62]

I too was wondering what the negatives were, especially when I read that Loyola's newly rennovated Gentile Center held around 5000 (a little less than the ARC).  I've only been in the ARC a couple of times over the years (being from New England and not getting out there much), but I was pretty impressed considering I was used to the old Brown Gym that fit 4000 or so back in the late 60s.  But I also kept reading here about how the facility was not up to par, so I just went along with what I thought was the prevailing sentiment (see my post under the Coach Powell string). 5600 screaming fans right on top of the court IS a tremendous advantage. I also thought the BB office area was pretty decent as well.  Being a former FB and Track guy with a very fervent interest in soccer, I naturally focus on those facilities which ARE inadequate for a D-1 and FCS university.  But I also see a relationship among all sports and their respective facilities as making Valpo more (or less) attractive to athletes because of the overall sense of the university's commitment to the whole program that is reflected. Kids can pretty much figure that out. 

[lowposter]

Was it Coach Ray McCallum or Player Ray that made the comment.  Whichever it was...it is a great point.  The ARC is a little weird for a college facility, but it is loud. 

Average attendance this year was about 3500.  We can pack 5600 in.  That is an average of 62%. 

I am not sure if this university, community, and region will support a larger facility.

Now, if we MUST have one, then the key is to have a big time contributor write a big check for naming rights, probably an alum that made big $$$ and hopefully has a tie to the basketball program.  Anyone know any men or women qualified?

Not sure how much something like this would cost, but my guess is $20 million.  A check for $10 would probably get the ball rolling.

lowposter

[crusaderjoe]

IMO, the ARC is hot garbage.  The seating configuration is terrible.  It's better aligned for football or a high school basketball facility.  Can a fan purchase seats behind any of the baskets?  No.  There are no boxes or suites.  There should be, so that VU can attract solid corporate sponsorship to increase its revenue.  One major concession stand for the entire joint.  What could be more evident of a quality D-I facility than a walking track that runs right through the core of the "arena".  I could go on and on, but I'm not going to. 

As far as capacity, 7-7,500 would be perfect.  You don't have to sell out VU games to justify the size.  With a 7K facility, VU puts a stranglehold on such a event holding locale in the entire NW Indiana region.  Concerts, sporting events, hell even congregate religious events could be held at such a facility comfortably.  All are rentable events. You think Wright State uses the Nutter Center only for their team's basketball games? Give me a break.  But of course, on this board, we're only concerned about shortsighted things like the justification of size based on how many people come to games, or about how wonderful it was that the University put up video boards that replaced scoreboards from the Reagan administration.

[vuweathernerd]

IMO, the ARC is hot garbage.  The seating configuration is terrible.  It's better aligned for football or a high school basketball facility.  Can a fan purchase seats behind any of the baskets?  No.  There are no boxes or suites.  There should be, so that VU can attract solid corporate sponsorship to increase its revenue.  One major concession stand for the entire joint.  What could be more evident of a quality D-I facility than a walking track that runs right through the core of the "arena".  I could go on and on, but I'm not going to. 

As far as capacity, 7-7,500 would be perfect.  You don't have to sell out VU games to justify the size.  With a 7K facility, VU puts a stranglehold on such a event holding locale in the entire NW Indiana region.  Concerts, sporting events, hell even congregate religious events could be held at such a facility comfortably.  All are rentable events. You think Wright State uses the Nutter Center only for their team's basketball games? Give me a break.  But of course, on this board, we're only concerned about shortsighted things like the justification of size based on how many people come to games, or about how wonderful it was that the University put up video boards that replaced scoreboards from the Reagan administration.

i completely agree. one of the biggest events the nutter center has every year doesn't even have any ties to wright state university. it's the fitness expo that happens the weekend of the air force marathon. there's no reason that a new facility would have to be solely for use of the university athletic programs. and it's a great source of extra income to be able to rent out the facility for events like that.

[valpotx]

How many concerts or major events are you expecting in Valparaiso, IN???  The other cities in our conference have much larger populations to my knowledge, which make them business/population centers.  How many corporate sponsors would support a suite in Valpo??  That is probably the biggest obstacle to your proposal.

[vu72]

I've been told the ARC has hosted boxing, wrestling or even a truck pull?  Not sure but some outside events.  I know Ivy Tech holds their graduation event at the ARC.

And I think there are TWO consession areas!   

The reality is there won't be a brand new facility.  The money already into the floor and new score board are pretty good indications of a remodel.  I really don't have any inside info, just my guess.

I am confident that a new fieldhouse will be built on the hospital site as this will be a requirement to service all the needs of an expanded number of students.

I guess my point has to do with opposing the notion that new facilities will mean better players will want to come.  As I stated earlier, there are lots of examples of schools putting lots of money into new arenas etc. with mixed results at best (Loyola, Wright State, Nebraska etc)

[okinawatyphoon]

How many concerts or major events are you expecting in Valparaiso, IN???  The other cities in our conference have much larger populations to my knowledge, which make them business/population centers.  How many corporate sponsors would support a suite in Valpo??  That is probably the biggest obstacle to your proposal.

In constructing the new Union, they put large, flexible meeting space. Why? Not just for students, but the Union hosts many conferences and events such as weddings and concerts. The same mentality should be applied to the ARC because I believe there is a market for it.

[valporun]

The ARC hosts a yearly concert with some big name group coming in, and they did host the WWE for at least two out of my five years there. A congregational religious event would work fine, though the main entrance to the arena is right where the stage would have to go, or you'd have to put the stage up against the chairback seating, then put folding chairs down, ala Spring graduation. If you've ever seen Spring graduation, you'll see the ARC is packed, so it could easily hold a religious event. The only problem with regular concerts at the ARC is sufficient parking around the facility for the off-campus people coming in.

Currently, the ARC has its 'aged downfalls', and that's a fault of the Harre administration, and administrations prior to him for not paying attention to these details. Also, the Steinbrecher(sp?) administration didn't do a whole lot to help matters to fight for it either. While our facility looks "high school-ish" to many of you, remember the gym the men went to at Chicago State, or as recently as Bracketbuster at Loyola Marymount. Those looked really high schoolish compared to the ARC. Now Chicago State has a newer gym, but it sees more attention for high school games than it does for Chicago State games, so it's benefitted the community around it a lot more than it has done anything for the team it was originally built for. How many of you really want the kind of facility for basketball games that you see for UIC, Milwaukee, Cleveland State or Wright State, where you have a lot of empty seats when the basketball team is bad, or they aren't playing a rivalry game? Those schools, to pay the arena bills have to bring in a lot of outside events to make the space worth keeping, otherwise Milwaukee would go back to the facility they played their first round HL tourney game in, which looked a lot more packed than I've ever seen U.S. Cellular Arena. I'd rather have an intimate facility like the ARC, where it might look weird, but brings the fans more into the action on the court.

[okinawatyphoon]

I don't think anyone is arguing for a 10000 seat arena. We all want an intimate atmosphere, just nicer accommodations. It wouldn't be that difficult to renovate the ARC and make it top notch.

[vuweathernerd]

The ARC hosts a yearly concert with some big name group coming in, and they did host the WWE for at least two out of my five years there. A congregational religious event would work fine, though the main entrance to the arena is right where the stage would have to go, or you'd have to put the stage up against the chairback seating, then put folding chairs down, ala Spring graduation. If you've ever seen Spring graduation, you'll see the ARC is packed, so it could easily hold a religious event. The only problem with regular concerts at the ARC is sufficient parking around the facility for the off-campus people coming in.

Currently, the ARC has its 'aged downfalls', and that's a fault of the Harre administration, and administrations prior to him for not paying attention to these details. Also, the Steinbrecher(sp?) administration didn't do a whole lot to help matters to fight for it either. While our facility looks "high school-ish" to many of you, remember the gym the men went to at Chicago State, or as recently as Bracketbuster at Loyola Marymount. Those looked really high schoolish compared to the ARC. Now Chicago State has a newer gym, but it sees more attention for high school games than it does for Chicago State games, so it's benefitted the community around it a lot more than it has done anything for the team it was originally built for. How many of you really want the kind of facility for basketball games that you see for UIC, Milwaukee, Cleveland State or Wright State, where you have a lot of empty seats when the basketball team is bad, or they aren't playing a rivalry game? Those schools, to pay the arena bills have to bring in a lot of outside events to make the space worth keeping, otherwise Milwaukee would go back to the facility they played their first round HL tourney game in, which looked a lot more packed than I've ever seen U.S. Cellular Arena. I'd rather have an intimate facility like the ARC, where it might look weird, but brings the fans more into the action on the court.

not many people are talking about a venue seating 10k+. there's nothing wrong with a similarly sized to slightly larger capacity maybe 6k. (i think 7k-7500 may be pushing it some.) but there are general improvements that definitely need to be made if the decision is to remodel. seating style (seats vs bleacher benches), concessions and restroom facilities, and general technology improvements need to be made. the new videoboards above center court are a start - but the sound system is still awful, according to reports we've seen here on the board. there are upgrades to be made regarding existing and potential new concession stands, and the lack of restroom facilities is a definite issue to be addressed. hopefully these are all examined when deciding remodel/replacement.

[StlVUFan]

One thing I can attest to: very often what should be outstanding seats suck by comparison.  The prime seat I had Saturday and Tuesday had me forever craning my neck to see around all the people who couldn't be bothered to stay in their seat or on the sideline until there was a stoppage in play    There are configurations where that is greatly minimized, are there not?

[valpotx]

Yes, I remember the one big name concert each year and the WWE events. 

A segue from the current topic: We had to work the WWE events as part of the baseball team (football also helped), and were escorts for the wrestlers to and from the ring, as well outside of the building to their cars.  Some of the conversations those guys had were hilarious (Big Show, Undertaker, Kane, etc).  The one event in 2002 I remember was one in which John Cena was just starting out, and asked who our rival was before the show, so that he could talk trash about the school on the microphone when introduced.  The football team's response was 'Dayton,' instead of what it should have been at the time, Oral Roberts.  When he started talking trash about how Dayton was much better than Valpo later that night, it was dead silent lol. That was pretty cool overall (talking to the wrestlers before and after the show), as they talked with you about how they got started, and were all pretty personable.

My point with my original comment was that it isn't like the area currently has monthly big name concerts or events.  How likely is it that such a thing would occur with a 'better' venue?  The ARC seems to support the current/future needs of events such as these.

[agibson]

The prime seat I had Saturday and Tuesday had me forever craning my neck to see around all the people who couldn't be bothered to stay in their seat or on the sideline until there was a stoppage in play

I had a chance to try out the chairbacks for the quarter-finals.  I left convinced that the sight lines, generally, were better in the bleachers!  I think the chairbacks aren't as steep, so there's less vertical drop per row.  So, even if the person in front of you is sitting, they're more likely to interfere with your view in the chairbacks.

[valpo84]

Here is an interesting article from Cleveland Plain Dealer on CSU's struggles with the Wolstein Center. Building a new arena is not necessarily the answer. Remodeling the ARC to upgrade the experience, and building the Fieldhouse on the hospital land for all students is the better approach. You want a great atmosphere for hoops. But 5000 is probably the right number until you sell it out regularly and Seat Licenses and other increased donations to reserve seats become the norm.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/03/cleveland_state_university_pon.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Valpo_Fred]

While I think the facilities definitely need some upgrading, there also needs to be more fans showing up to game. Sort of the chicken and the egg. I was covering every home game this season, and besides a few of them, the place was pretty much dead. Not just from general fans but the student section as well. Part of the problem is Valpo is such a small campus and they do a bad job of scheduling. Depts don't take into account sporting events when they make schedules. A few times this year students went to other events instead of basketball games because that event fell on the same night of a game. Sometimes they are required to go to them for class.

[agibson]

Depts don't take into account sporting events when they make schedules. A few times this year students went to other events instead of basketball games because that event fell on the same night of a game. Sometimes they are required to go to them for class.

This is true... but is it really a problem?

I mean, if basketball was _the_ dominant passtime on campus (Duke? UNC? Kansas?) I can see scheduling around it.  But, there's a lot going on at Valpo.  There are only so many times you can schedule e.g. an evening event.

For a particularly important game (e.g. Butler, a post-season game, etc.) I might try to re-schedule an event.  But, rescheduling's hard.  If I reschedule an event (e.g. a class event) and one student has to miss it (because of a work commitment, or whatever) so that the rest of us can watch a basketball game, is that fair?

I might personally take e.g. the men's basketball and soccer schedules into account when scheduling events that _I_ feel obliged to go to.  But, more than anything, that's because I'm a fan of those teams.  And, as the highest profile sport on campus, I bet that a lot of people _do_ take the MBB schedule into account (even if it's not an absolute veto).  But, there are a lot of other teams, and a lot of other events, out there.

[valpopal]

I think the problem of scheduling is minimal at best. I can't fault those scheduling events nor do I think the attendance at games is greatly influenced by other events on campus. I am responsible for scheduling some events on campus, and I always try to avoid nights or times commonly associated with men's basketball games just for my own sake. However, there are many activities on campus, and unfortunate scheduling conflicts occur regularly, not only with athletic events. Also, most scheduling of events must be done at least six months to a year in advance, and the basketball schedule often isn't released until the university is already in the fall semester.

[BigDWSU]

Wright State apparently has the best practice facility.  Working for them? 

It's working quite well for us.  We had a bad rebuilding year this year, but you are ignoring the fact that we averaged 20 wins a year for the previous 5 years and had the best winning percentage in the HL behind only Butler.  Our arena and practice facilities helped us hire Brad Brownell away fro UNCW and they have been mentioned in almost every article when we sign a recruit as one of the reasons why they chose WSU.  You have to consider that a college athlete is going to spend roughly 1/2 of their day in classrooms and the other 1/2 of their day in your practice facilites.  Having a great practice facility with locker rooms, basketball courts, weight rooms, film rooms, and areas to study and lounge with other players makes an impression on recruits.  For WSU this especially makes a big impression because we have a basketball only facility.  When you recruit against a bunch of MAC schools that makes a difference because many MAC schools have good facilites but they are used by all sports.  It makes a difference knowing that you can go work out anytime you want and not have to wait until the football team is done.

[78crusader]

I enjoy reading everyone's input on our annual "The ARC either needs to be completely replaced or totally remodeled" thread.  This topic wouldn't keep rearing its ugly head on such a consistent basis were it not for the idea that was floated a couple years ago that VU partner with the city in building an arena.  A consultant was hired to study this idea and the consultant, wisely, determined it was not a viable project.  I thought that when this outside expert put his dagger through the heart of this silly notion that it would die the painful death it deserved, but I was wrong. 

I've only attended two games at the ARC and even I would admit the ARC could be better.  If money were no object, then I would get rid of the concession stand on the main floor since I would agree that feature, more than anything else, does tend to give the ARC a "high school" feeling, add 8 or 10 rows of seating to the north side, expand the ARC to the north to put in additional restroom and concession facilities, and, while I'm at it, put in windows near the top of the north wall (and maybe windows along the west wall, also) to brighten up the place.  All of that would probably require some structural reworking of the roof, and would cost many millions of dollars. 

The problem with those improvements is...it will not happen in the near term, and probably not in the long term either.  I am guessing the university is committed to building the fieldhouse where the hospital now sits, adding a dorm or two, expanding Meier Hall to accommodate the Department of Education, remodeling the Chapel, including a 9,000 SF addition, adding the Welcome Center, and building a new science center.  The cost of those projects is likely to exceed $200 million, and will take 7 years minimum to bring all of these projects to completion. 

The university has, in my opinion anyway, gone about athletic facilities the right way in the face of limited funds and a long list of other projects that need to be done, by making small but significant improvements such as the new floor, video scoreboard, better locker rooms, softball field, etc.  I would expect more of the same in the coming years.  And that's the way it should be. 

Paul