Facilities

[vu72]

Not a new a ARC.  Just a physically improved ARC.  Not $8 million total gut and rebuild like the Gentile Center.  $1million to $2 million for new seating and some cosmetic improvements including improved concession locations.  As you point out, the ARC can be electriv "when it is packed."  But the place needs rejuvenation badly.  When we check out some of the recruit highlights, the HS gyms some of them play in are much better lit and have newer seating. That helps attract fans to fill seats and even empty on a practice day (cuz they don't always use Hilltop for practice) or half empty during a game, it shows a prospect visible investment in the program's future.

I think this might be a good topic for Union Street Hoops, interviewing previous players about the impact "facilities" had on their decision.  I think we fans may have a different view from players as to what facilities we have in mind.  Many times players have said that playing at the ARC in front of a packed house is "electric".  I wonder if playing in one of The Valley's larger venues would have the same impact.  So we have a new locker room, an air-conditioned dedicated practice facility as well as uncomfortable chairs, limited bathrooms and limited food options in the ARC.  Do those limitations impact a players decision?  I wonder and just don't know.  Would love to hear from players.

I'm guessing location is a big factor for some.  Being close to Chicago for others (particularly Foreign players). Christian atmosphere for others, Coaches and playing style for others and of course playing time for most.  Just curious whether or not the concerns voiced here are the same ones the athletes might have.  Remember, our crummy Horizon league recruits regularly beat Missouri Valley teams prior to last year.

I think if you ask Mark L., $1 to $2 million is "perfume on a pig".  The problem with the ARC go WAY beyond the seating and concessions. When it was built we didn't have many of the teams we have now.  To do it correctly we need to get the Rec Center done first and then move folks out so it can be fixed once and for all.  Perhaps some of the things you suggest could be done a head of time but I would rather see it done correctly including possible club seating etc.  Pretty sure the lighting is just fine!

[usc4valpo]

I would like to see something what Drake has. Both schools are comparable academically - why would that be asking too much?

[FieldGoodie05]

Looks like we came in at 146th in attendance in D1 last year. 

Drake 2,843
Valpo 3,086

Drake stadium looks quite nice, I agree.  I'm just not a flashy guy, I'd have to agree that flash and shiny is nice but it has no substance.  I'd vote for build a student rec center before spending more than maintenance on the ARC.

Here's the 2017 attendance numbers

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf

[VULB#62]

Not a new a ARC.  Just a physically improved ARC.  Not $8 million total gut and rebuild like the Gentile Center.  $1million to $2 million for new seating and some cosmetic improvements including improved concession locations.  As you point out, the ARC can be electriv "when it is packed."  But the place needs rejuvenation badly.  When we check out some of the recruit highlights, the HS gyms some of them play in are much better lit and have newer seating. That helps attract fans to fill seats and even empty on a practice day (cuz they don't always use Hilltop for practice) or half empty during a game, it shows a prospect visible investment in the program's future.

I think this might be a good topic for Union Street Hoops, interviewing previous players about the impact "facilities" had on their decision.  I think we fans may have a different view from players as to what facilities we have in mind.  Many times players have said that playing at the ARC in front of a packed house is "electric".  I wonder if playing in one of The Valley's larger venues would have the same impact.  So we have a new locker room, an air-conditioned dedicated practice facility as well as uncomfortable chairs, limited bathrooms and limited food options in the ARC.  Do those limitations impact a players decision?  I wonder and just don't know.  Would love to hear from players.

I'm guessing location is a big factor for some.  Being close to Chicago for others (particularly Foreign players). Christian atmosphere for others, Coaches and playing style for others and of course playing time for most.  Just curious whether or not the concerns voiced here are the same ones the athletes might have.  Remember, our crummy Horizon league recruits regularly beat Missouri Valley teams prior to last year.

I think if you ask Mark L., $1 to $2 million is "perfume on a pig".  The problem with the ARC go WAY beyond the seating and concessions. When it was built we didn't have many of the teams we have now.  To do it correctly we need to get the Rec Center done first and then move folks out so it can be fixed once and for all.  Perhaps some of the things you suggest could be done a head of time but I would rather see it done correctly including possible club seating etc.  Pretty sure the lighting is just fine!

Sorry 72, although what you state makes sense in an environment where money is freeflowing and gifts are multiple and forthcoming, I disagree. This is Valpo. If the scenario you described is followed, we would be waiting for anything significant for another decade - maybe more. No good. No way. We are sitting on the cusp of do-or-die in the MVC. If we do not act now we will be buried in the MVC basement for years and we will be the object of derision for years to come. A small loan for, say, $2 million, right now, to do a cosmetic rejuvenation to our aged ARC would do wonders for our program, image and respect among fellow MVC members. It certainly would be a stop-gap step, but it would not only improve the physical environment, it would make a loud statement. Remember, despite our stellar winning tradition in the Mid-Con and HL, Loyola was picked over us to replace Creigton, and the reason was essentially their obvious commitment  of resources to the MBB program.  Sure the Chicago market was a factor, but we are also within earshot of Chicagoland as well. As I stated previously, we are NOT on a level playing field. We are at the bottom of the league in most categories. It is time to not only talk the talk. Valpo has to walk the walk. We made a commitment to one of the best mid-major conferences in America and the level of quality and competitiveness they represent. To approach this gift like we did going into the HL would be irresponsible.

[vu72]

As long as the changes you suggest don't have to redone via a full and complete renovation, I'm all for it! 

[VULB#62]

In 10 years the interim changes I was talking about very well might be blown away and permanent seating will be installed (like they did at Gentile) but that is a decade + away.  But, right now, Valpo has to do everthing within its power gain as much ground as it can as fast as it can. The slower Valpo acts the behinder it gets.

[valpopal]

Looks like we came in at 146th in attendance in D1 last year. 

Drake 2,843
Valpo 3,086

Drake stadium looks quite nice, I agree.  I'm just not a flashy guy, I'd have to agree that flash and shiny is nice but it has no substance.  I'd vote for build a student rec center before spending more than maintenance on the ARC.

Here's the 2017 attendance numbers

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf

Those attendance numbers are from 2016-17. The 2017-18 average home attendance was much worse and only a disappointing 2722. We had envisioned a boost in attendance by joining a top-10 conference and bringing in more attractive and stronger teams. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League, overall home attendance was 3666. In that first year in the Horizon League Valpo was only 5-4 at home, same as this year, yet attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to the home conference average this year of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves for improving attendance must be a focus of the off-season for the Athletics administration.

[crusadermoe]

VU72 has addressed the big issues.   For the next year or two, I am less concerned about the ARC than the university paying its credit card bill.

We all quote the phrase from the movie, "If you build it, they will come."   But this isn't fiction and fun. Page 15 of the financial statements show that since 2010 the university has borrowed over $80 million to add academic buildings and dormitories.  Many point out the truth that those factors influence recruitment. 

GENTLEMEN: Our board has placed an $80 million bet on Heckler and his admissions staff.  In addition to the $37 that was out for infrastructure on 2007. Have they told these 20p0 and 2014 lenders we will reach a 6,000 student goal and vouched for some pace for that on the loan documents?  Heckler told us we will do that in the Masterplan brochure.  I doubt we are that far out on a limb, but that is the general drift.

The note on PAGE 16 IS STARK and telling.  It is vague about "certain covenants" and ratios that lenders have attached to the loans.  BUT YOU CAN BET that the loans can be called in if Valpo doesn't hit the student enrollment and the Net tuition targets in the covenants.

If the lenders get restless, we won't be worried about Chairback seat comfort and concession stands very long.   

What is the enrollment trend right now?........forecast for 2018-2019?    Heckler could always leave VU and take with him a resume hat says he "built buildings x, y, and z."   But who holds the bag and pays the bills?....the Board?.......are they individually liable in anyway to pay back the bonds if the university runs dry?

Endowment is nice as a long-term strategy, but won't offset a lack of  cash from enrollment increases.

[humbleopinion]

Those of us in Northwest Indiana are well aware of the example of our old rival, St. Joe's in Rensselaer. After going into debt to modernize the university's facilities, the school went bankrupt.  Now the buildings stand empty and the only hope seems to be for a state university to have a regional campus.  I appreciate the board demonstrating caution during this period when the total pool of students available in the US is declining due to birth rate from 18 years ago, a national push away from four year degrees, and national policies that discourage foreign students who have bolstered tuition revenues.

[usc4valpo]

Humble opinion -

Some very good points. However, and seriously, Valpo academically is significantly better than St. Joseph's.

[FieldGoodie05]

Humble opinion -

Some very good points. However, and seriously, Valpo academically is significantly better than St. Joseph's.

USC, I enjoy your points.  Makes me think outside of my more conservative nature.  I hope any differing in opinions doesn't make you think I don't enjoy your posts.

However, "seriously" your use of "seriously" is somewhat condescending.  As if we are your children in both intellect and years.

I believe that ML started posting some financials (thanks!) which better help us sound off with more facts.  Admittedly my position hasn't changed and apparently the lending community is trepidation's with Universities as well considering several titanic changes ahead (population shift out of Midwest, less children proportionately and the student debt crisis).

If we are currently servicing ~$80,000,000 in debt which is 7-years old or less than spending is sort of out of the question.

I'm assuming these campaigns such as Forever Valpo (endowments) are leverage that future lenders want and need for us to get acceptable interest rates on future money.

Being a private faith based university is tough into today's ever increasing "semi atheist" mindset.  Let's not create ourselves more headwinds in athletics debt where it's not critical.  I'd say give us a few years in the MVC to see what type of change the bigger conference does to our athletics ledger and then consider minor to moderate ARC renovations.  If we start getting $120,000 more per year in this new conference from multi bids and deep runs/tv money then allocate a portion of those proceeds to Reno. 

[crusadermoe]

I think that is right on track.

A couple more points.  We have beat up on Harre for frugality.  But in reality he started the building of the tennis courts and the new football field in 2006 and 2007.  He didn't finish the track, but it is not fair to overlook the former.  Does anyone remember the horrific state of the tennis courts by Lankenau?   That was addressed with gifts. I just now recalled that the softball field was also built under Harre.

He also hired LaBarbera.  Which is the greatest decision of them all. We have moved up twice now in athletic conference quality.  So many sports are competitive now, especially baseball and tennis and now football! He will leave VU in much better shape and done so without much additional investment since 2008 ending of the Harre tenure. 

[vu72]

Seeing that I started this thread and as a result there have been 687 responses and it has been read 67,519 times, I am so glad that we all now finally agree on what to do about facilities!  Good work!    

We have finally nailed jello to a wall!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ePy_mnH774

[crusaderjoe]

Those of us in Northwest Indiana are well aware of the example of our old rival, St. Joe's in Rensselaer. After going into debt to modernize the university's facilities, the school went bankrupt.  Now the buildings stand empty and the only hope seems to be for a state university to have a regional campus.  I appreciate the board demonstrating caution during this period when the total pool of students available in the US is declining due to birth rate from 18 years ago, a national push away from four year degrees, and national policies that discourage foreign students who have bolstered tuition revenues.

You know, I can appreciate your perspective, but from an athletic facilities standpoint and a discussion revolving around same, I think you're comparing apples (SJC) to oranges (VU).  Athletics at SJC were a D-II albatross, IMO; that is, while the College was responsible to provide either full or partial scholarships spread across 18 Varsity sports, including Football, as an enrollment draw, it would never be able to fully realize the nationwide media marketing benefit and reach that would be available to it if it were a  D-I institution (see UMBC this year, see Butler post Final Four, see Valpo in 1999).  The potential return on athletic facilities investment via increased enrollment is much stronger at Valpo than it could ever have been at SJC.

Just my $.02.

[crusadermoe]

Yes, VU 72.  Even among the 67,000 times this post was read.   

By far the highlight is the emoji whatever that has the guy beating the "dead cow" since we had already beaten the dead horse.   

[usc4valpo]

goodie, my bad. comparing Valpo to St. Joseph's is an apples to orange comparison. Valpo to DePaul, Loyola, Butler, Bradley, Creighton and Drake are apples to apples.

also, great opportunities arise when you stay ahead of the game and you take a calculated risk. I would never suggest that we spend like the government. But with new trends coming up at a fast rate, you need to take actions in a proactive manner. Valpo is not moving fast enough - online classes and satellite campuses or locations are required these days.

[FieldGoodie05]

goodie, my bad. comparing Valpo to St. Joseph's is an apples to orange comparison. Valpo to DePaul, Loyola, Butler, Bradley, Creighton and Drake are apples to apples.

also, great opportunities arise when you stay ahead of the game and you take a calculated risk. I would never suggest that we spend like the government. But with new trends coming up at a fast rate, you need to take actions in a proactive manner. Valpo is not moving fast enough - online classes and satellite campuses or locations are required these days.

That's a good point, is online course offerings something that detracts or adds value for Valpo?

For some reason I have associates degrees in my mind as online level courses, but admittedly I've never researched.

Do good universities offer online courses or even degrees at a good clip?  How is it perceived by the university community at VU?

[VUGrad1314]

I took a few online seminar courses when I did my MA.As for how they are perceived I do not know as I lived in town.

[usc4valpo]

Online graduate classes are available at many fine universities, including cal tech, MIT and USC

[usc4valpo]

And undergrad classes. If Valpo's strength is commitment in instruction, wouldn't you consider taking advantage of this?

[usc4valpo]

And undergraduate classes. If the strength at Valpo is quality instruction, perhaps they should take advantage of online classes.

[vu72]

And undergraduate classes. If the strength at Valpo is quality instruction, perhaps they should take advantage of online classes.

This has been covered before.  Valpo offers more than 150 different options on-line.

https://www.valpo.edu/online/

[usc4valpo]

That's good - they need to expand beyond nursing

[UNIFTW]

FWIW UNI laid out a 5 year strategic plan this week. TLDR version of it is the entire athletic department getting a facelift. New track, soccer, softball facilities. Something line 50-60m in renovations to the football stadium (those weren't fully announced but plans in place.)

The other part is basketball related. A 25 plus million dollar practice facility with multiple gyms for basketball and volleyball. Weight rooms and training rooms specific to basketball and volleyball. Meeting spaces. Rentable spaces for making money back on it.



As part of it the arena - which opened in 06 - is also slated for a new hanging video board, ribbon boards, all new banners and signage, and a new sound system.



All private funded. Almost completely funded from what I've heard 

Current view and the west side facility and where it will be.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VULB#62]

All fully funded privately (i.e., football stadium and BB improvements) or just the BB part?  Hard to believe that the $60-$70 million for the dome+ improvements could be all privately funded.

However, I am impressed by the narrow window of only 5 years for such a sizeable  strategic initiative. That is aggressive.

All I'd like to see in Valpo's immediate future is visible ARC improvements that bring the arena out of the 1980s and give the appearance of being close to 21st century (and other MVC arena) standards. In the grand scheme of things, a Valpo investment like that is probably equivalent to annual facilities maintenance line items at NIU, Missou State or SIU. Old addage: The slower we go the behinder we get.  To wit.....

So....  NIU is revamping EVERYTHING to enhance it's competitive standing in the MVC.

And now.....  Loyola is getting a new $18.5 million Norville Practice facility (because the BB team had to use Gentile for practice.    ) and this was announced before the F4 run. The bulk of the cost will be covered by a gift, but Loyola will add $1-$2 million from it's capital funds to complete the package.

Since moving from the Horizon League to the Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) in 2013, Loyola has tried to continue competing against the other schools in the conference. The facility is another step in being competitive in the MVC, according to athletics director Steve Watson.

"This facility will bring us closer to practice space parity with our fellow Missouri Valley Conference institutions, increasing our competitiveness, improving our recruitment and enhancing our athletics program," Watson said in a press release.

     http://loyolaphoenix.com/2018/02/loyola-build-18-5-million-athletics-practice-facility/

In addition..... at Missouri State " Among the projects underway are the improved student section east side to Plaster Sports Complex and the construction of both the Betty and Bobby Allison North and South Stadiums for soccer, track, field hockey and lacrosse use.

And Evansville is being proactive as well..... UE is proceeding with the strategy to move women's basketball to the Carson Center beginning with the 2017-18 season, is planning renovations for multisport use inside the old National Guard Armory and has begun preliminary designs for a "transformational" $1 million sports performance center, athletic director Mark Spencer said.

     http://archive.courierpress.com/sports/college/evansville/ue-athletic-department-officials-busy-planning-multiple-facility-upgrades-3649413e-dc2e-3fdb-e053-01-385325311.html

Illinois State, too,  is going forward toward a $25 million indoor practice facility that is positioned to help all sports.... "The facility is No. 1 on our wish list, and it's what we lead with when talking with donors as part of the campus (fundraising) campaign," added Lyons. "We're probably going to have to fund the majority of this building because it's not our turn on campus to use many resources."

"There are other priorities on campus and we understand that, so we're probably going to have to do the majority of this privately. We are trying to find those individuals or corporations, who might be interested in helping us do that. It's not an easy thing to do, but we're trying to find that anchor, that lead gift, that will give us the momentum to really push forward."

     http://wglt.org/post/indoor-practice-facility-tops-wish-list-isu-athletics#stream/0



Back on  April 23rd in the Recruiting 2019 string I posted the questions below.  The items I dropped in above are, in part, why I asked those questions in the first place.

In the HL, we could offset the commuter schools with our great campus and academic environment. Some may have had good arenas, but the mix was not that attractive. So we could lure the kids we wanted.

Not so in the MVC. Here we have major destination campuses and well thought of private institutions in good environments with pretty solid fan bases.  We had a great winning tradition in the past at a level that is a few steps below where we are now. But that was then. What do we have that helps us compensate for the recruiting deficits we face against our new MVC rivals?  By deficits I mean a smaller, less than wealthy alumni base that is not rabidly sports-minded and the worst athletic  facilties across the board in the MVC.

Another way to ask this question is: have we reached the Peter Principle (advanced to the level of our incompetence)?  Are we finally at a point where we are out of our league and no matter what we do (given the current administration position) we cannot overcome our liabilities?

The analogy that comes to mind is that Valpo wanted desparately to be invited to the prom, and finally got that invitation, only to realize after the fact that it couldn't afford the formalware to participate in the festivities like all the others.