Facilities

[UNIFTW]

And again this has nothing to do with state funds. This is about donations being raised to create these facilities. That can be an apples to apples comparison.

David Johnson and Kurt Warner, as much as we'd like them too, aren't donating millions per year.


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[UNIFTW]

And again this has nothing to do with state funds. This is about donations being raised to create these facilities. That can be an apples to apples comparison.

David Johnson and Kurt Warner, as much as we'd like them too, aren't donating millions per year.


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[usc4valpo]

I thought Wartburg was a really good school! hmm...

[VUGrad1314]

We're another Evansville now? I think you should check our record over the past few years before you say that. Has Evansville beaten the likes of Oregon State Rhode Island (twice) Murray State and Belmont? Did Evansville ever take a #1 seed to the mat like we did against Oregon in 15-16? Has Evansville beaten Alabama Florida State St Mary's and BYU twice in tournaments? Has Evansville produced an all American and NBA Draft pick and several players playing at some of Europe's highest levels? Has Evansville recently had their coach poached by a P5 school? Has Evansville had to deal with the kind of adversity and challenges we have since Peters senior year; and if they have, would the team have rallied around Simmons the way ours rallied around Lottich? I think not. We are decidedly not another Evansville at least not in the way you conceive of Evansville. I would say we are closer to another UNI (hopefully without an epic choke like the Panthers suffered a couple of Marches ago)  has the program recovered from that? It sure doesn't look like it. It's understandable losses like that hang around for quite awhile probably a coach's entire career. The comebacks we made against your Panthers this year show that a million bucks can buy many things but it can't buy a coach that knows how to beat a trapping press.

All of this said, I don't think it's prudent to summarily discard what UNIFTW says. He raises a great point about the importance of commitment and buy in by the whole community. It takes a village. Luckily UNI has like 2.5-3 times the alumni base from which to draw as well as a larger metropolitan area and less competition for peoples' entertainment dollars (I'd imagine you'd struggle quite a bit too if UNI were located within an hour of one of America's largest cities. We need both a fanbase and an administration that is more passionate about sports. We have said this ad nauseum on this board. We need facility upgrades to enhance our ability to compete and we need them soon. We know this, but coming here and complaining to us about the same complaints we all have and comparing our beloved program to a program you regard as lower than dirt isn't going to curry much favor with a fanbase passionate enough to have such an active discussion board in the middle of May.  You need to consider also that a fair number of people who post here are young alumni still paying off loans  and establishing themselves. Our power to donate more will come and you can bet that most of the young alumni on this board will use it.

[UNIFTW]

It's also incredibly dumb to complain about stage funding. It's a state university. The state owns it. The state is the stake holder. Just as your stakeholders fund you.

Maybe UNI should charge 30,000 more for tuition.


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State schools and private are two different animals.  Although they contend in the sports arena, I am not sure that Valpo and UNI contend a lot for the students.  This is not a comment on level of education, because that would be silly to argue over.

When I was at VU in 2001 I paid approximately 50% of full asking price by being an athlete and other academic scholarships.  In today's scenario that would be $18,000/year.

UNI you said was $7,000/year?  Let's add in the state subsidies reported to be $83.2 million in 2014 and divide the number of students.  That could mean the state is off setting $8,320/student/year in 2014.

$7,000 tuition
$8,320 subsidies
$15,320/student

This is not likely the exact number, just as VU isn't taking in $18,000 on every student.  So admittedly we continue to discuss hypotheticals.

UNI
-has roughly 6,000 more paying students
-is in a market 2x as big as Valparaiso
-has municipal arenas that they share and get state money on
-has a legit football program with big time alumni

I want you guys to thrive, that means we get to compete at higher and higher levels.  I think you will find that most of us are happy to see UNI succeed on the arena front and sports programs in general.

As I was thinking about this and you numbers. Why do you get to use half Valpo tuition for your numbers but not what most UNI students  probably pay in just tuition - let's call it's half as well. That takes UNIs number down to 11,000 to your 18,000.


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[NativeCheesehead]

When UNI gets itself a Good Morning America Weatherperson, we'll talk.

[FieldGoodie05]

And again this has nothing to do with state funds. This is about donations being raised to create these facilities. That can be an apples to apples comparison.

David Johnson and Kurt Warner, as much as we'd like them too, aren't donating millions per year.


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UNIFTW I am glad you reignited a good conversation to help some of us see from a state school perspective.  Please keep contributing, it is appreciated.  Even if we disagree, it's still great to ignore politics on these forums!!!

I think you will find that many of us agree with your points on enthusiastic and willing donors.  But I don't think we can look past the fact that we graduated 50%+ less alumni every single year than UNI does.  We have been extremely lucky to have director level alumni from some major American corporations that have helped build our academic and student buildings.  These were hands down our biggest needs or else we might have been able to steer their generosity into athletics more after our Sweet 16 run.

You commonly go back to 2004 as a pivotal year for UNI.  Back at this time, how were the academic buildings (age / quality of structure) and other critical university infrastructure for UNI?  I am uncertain, but I might imagine that if you have indeed invested in large athletics programs since that time you either had less needs on campus infrastructure OR just flat out had 2-3x the donations and income (state subsidies or otherwise).

Here is where we run into a brick wall.  Valpo did not invest in infrastructure for decades and our academic buildings, physical plant and student centers were woefully behind the times.  We lost $100 million just investing in non-athletic infrastructure from 1990 - 2015.  Sadly, this was a time when our sports programs were excelling (basketball mostly) and we lost the momentum to take the alumni donations and put them into sports.

Is it possible UNI had less need for physical plant and infrastructure (non athletic) at the times they invested in the sports program?  Just want to get your take on that concept.

[UNIFTW]

I thought Wartburg was a really good school! hmm...

It is. Where is that Wartburg piece of paper going to get you that UNI isn't? Name me on company anywhere in the world that will go "Oh, Wartburg. Impressive. You're way more qualified than this person from UNI." It won't happen. Ever. For any degree. I'm about to graduate with my Masters in Organizational Development and Strategic Leadership with an emphasis in supply chain management. I'll be 3 classes from an MBA and will probably add that on as well next year, from an NAIA in Cedar Rapids. Undergrad tuition there is 36k. I pay $600 per credit hour for my masters. It's a 36 credit program. Where is this degree going to get me that the same degree from UNI - which is one of the best business schools in the country...not top by any means but it is very well known and ranked...? Not a single place. The only reason I'm not getting it from UNI is distance.

I started at Wartburg. I feel pretty confident speaking about the quality of education there. It's not better than UNI.


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[UNIFTW]

And again this has nothing to do with state funds. This is about donations being raised to create these facilities. That can be an apples to apples comparison.

David Johnson and Kurt Warner, as much as we'd like them too, aren't donating millions per year.


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UNIFTW I am glad you reignited a good conversation to help some of us see from a state school perspective.  Please keep contributing, it is appreciated.  Even if we disagree, it's still great to ignore politics on these forums!!!

I think you will find that many of us agree with your points on enthusiastic and willing donors.  But I don't think we can look past the fact that we graduated 50%+ less alumni every single year than UNI does.  We have been extremely lucky to have director level alumni from some major American corporations that have helped build our academic and student buildings.  These were hands down our biggest needs or else we might have been able to steer their generosity into athletics more after our Sweet 16 run.

You commonly go back to 2004 as a pivotal year for UNI.  Back at this time, how were the academic buildings (age / quality of structure) and other critical university infrastructure for UNI?  I am uncertain, but I might imagine that if you have indeed invested in large athletics programs since that time you either had less needs on campus infrastructure OR just flat out had 2-3x the donations and income (state subsidies or otherwise).

Here is where we run into a brick wall.  Valpo did not invest in infrastructure for decades and our academic buildings, physical plant and student centers were woefully behind the times.  We lost $100 million just investing in non-athletic infrastructure from 1990 - 2015.  Sadly, this was a time when our sports programs were excelling (basketball mostly) and we lost the momentum to take the alumni donations and put them into sports.

Is it possible UNI had less need for physical plant and infrastructure (non athletic) at the times they invested in the sports program?  Just want to get your take on that concept.

Our campus in 2004 wasn't great. Since 2004 almost all of it has been renovated, much of it significantly. We've torn buildings down and rebuilt them since 04. Gutted entire buildings and redone them. Turned an old gym into a state of the art IT department and computer engineering/sciences building. Hell, I graduated in 2010 and moved out of Cedar Falls in fall 2013 after buying a house less than a mile from campus in 2008 and selling it when I moved. I go back now and I can't believe what the campus looks like. I'm on my phone so I can't really go through all of them but anyone who left campus in 2004 wouldn't believe what it looked like when the incoming freshman that year would graduate with. Same with that class and the class of 2012. Sure from the university side of it that can be attributed to state money being spent - but again we are a state university. That is our stake holder spending money. The alumni association is setting record donations. The performing arts center is setting record donations and getting bigger and bigger events on campus every year. Scholarship club records every year. Yes we have more alumni but *start mostly sarcastic sentence* our alums are coming from a piss poor educational directional school with cheap education and standards. We don't get any good jobs. Imagine what someone that also gets a psychology degree makes when they lay 36,000 for it. Imagine what that must be worth for salary. 

UNI hasn't had the money - contrary to this idea that UNI is just rolling in state money WHICH IT ISN'T AND NEVER HAS BEEN - prior to the university determining waiting for the money to be available wasn't the right move. Presidents, which we have had 3 of since the , and athletic directors, also 3, have all made it their number one priority to engage alumni. Encourage donations. Get people involved. It is priority #1 in many ways for every part of the university.


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[vu72]

It's also incredibly dumb to complain about stage funding. It's a state university. The state owns it. The state is the stake holder. Just as your stakeholders fund you.

Maybe UNI should charge 30,000 more for tuition.


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State schools and private are two different animals.  Although they contend in the sports arena, I am not sure that Valpo and UNI contend a lot for the students.  This is not a comment on level of education, because that would be silly to argue over.

When I was at VU in 2001 I paid approximately 50% of full asking price by being an athlete and other academic scholarships.  In today's scenario that would be $18,000/year.

UNI you said was $7,000/year?  Let's add in the state subsidies reported to be $83.2 million in 2014 and divide the number of students.  That could mean the state is off setting $8,320/student/year in 2014.

$7,000 tuition
$8,320 subsidies
$15,320/student

This is not likely the exact number, just as VU isn't taking in $18,000 on every student.  So admittedly we continue to discuss hypotheticals.

UNI
-has roughly 6,000 more paying students
-is in a market 2x as big as Valparaiso
-has municipal arenas that they share and get state money on
-has a legit football program with big time alumni

I want you guys to thrive, that means we get to compete at higher and higher levels.  I think you will find that most of us are happy to see UNI succeed on the arena front and sports programs in general.

As I was thinking about this and you numbers. Why do you get to use half Valpo tuition for your numbers but not what most UNI students  probably pay in just tuition - let's call it's half as well. That takes UNIs number down to 11,000 to your 18,000.


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Perhaps because Valpo's endowment is at least twice as large as UNI's and growing substantially with the current drive. (2016 numbers:  UNI  $107.6 million.  Valpo  $235.2 million.)

Based on published enrollment at UNI, that is an endowment equal to $9,021 per student.  Valpo, on the  same calculation is equal to $51,806 per student.

[UNIFTW]

And UNIs endowment has doubled in the last 15 years (IIRC).

That also doesn't fit that narrative that alumni can't donate because they are riddled with student loan debt.

Both come to covering one years tuition/board plus about 2k.


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[ml2]

Just to add some data to this conversation.

Here is what it actually costs to go to a school on average based on student's family income. You can look up over 1,500 schools, including Valpo and UNI. The price difference is about $4,000 per year, for all but the wealthiest students.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/09/30/444446022/what-youll-actually-pay-at-1-550-colleges

And here is how much various state schools are subsidizing their athletic departments with university funds. This is something that private schools do as well, but of course the difference is that at a private school all the money is coming from students and donors, whereas at a state school you do have that third input of taxpayer money.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

[ml2]

For the second link, the Total Allocated column shows the amount of University subsidy going to athletics.

[vu72]

And UNIs endowment has doubled in the last 15 years (IIRC).

That also doesn't fit that narrative that alumni can't donate because they are riddled with student loan debt.

Both come to covering one years tuition/board plus about 2k.


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That means your generous alumni have given about $50 million to the endowment in 15 years?  We have raised $180 million since the campaign started officially in September of 2016.

The reference to young alumni was more directed at motivation.  Many of our older alums have focused their giving to academic pursuits.  Lots of new and fabulous academic buildings, just not a lot of fabulous athletic buildings--yet.  Still, the University has invested a great deal in the future of Valpo athletics particularly via the acquisition of an adjacent 30+ acre former hospital site, less than 5 years ago, which will be used exclusively for athletics.

[VUGrad1314]

Aren't we also working on an (admittedly long overdue) renovation of our baseball field set to start this summer? That should help enhance our competitiveness scheduling and fan interest there as well.

[UNIFTW]

Just to add some data to this conversation.

Here is what it actually costs to go to a school on average based on student's family income. You can look up over 1,500 schools, including Valpo and UNI. The price difference is about $4,000 per year, for all but the wealthiest students.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/09/30/444446022/what-youll-actually-pay-at-1-550-colleges

And here is how much various state schools are subsidizing their athletic departments with university funds. This is something that private schools do as well, but of course the difference is that at a private school all the money is coming from students and donors, whereas at a state school you do have that third input of taxpayer money.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

Interesting. The first link shows young Valpo alums riddled with debt and can't donate are actually in the same boat as UNI alums. Good for the goose but not gander argument?

The second kind is one I debunk frequently. The total UNI reports is slightly different than everyone else in that the total is almost all for scholarships. UNI would give that money out to the general student population if it didn't to athletics. Where UNI differs from most is UNI charges the athletic department for scholarships and treats that as a separate line item. Almost every other school lumps athletic scholarships in with the total scholarship line. What that means is they give it to the AD to "support the AD" and it literally goes right back to the university to pay the scholarship bill. Our AD confirmed that last week in the unveil of the plan as well. It's a hilariously back asswarda way of doing it.  Makes UNI an easy target for discussions such as this and about 10 people understand what the number actually represents, which leads to a ton of misinformation spread and used against the athletic department.


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[vu72]

Aren't we also working on an (admittedly long overdue) renovation of our baseball field set to start this summer? That should help enhance our competitiveness scheduling and fan interest there as well.

Yes. As well as running cable out there for television.  My understanding is that we committed to adding the broadcast capabilities for softball and baseball when we joined the Valley.

[UNIFTW]

Aren't we also working on an (admittedly long overdue) renovation of our baseball field set to start this summer? That should help enhance our competitiveness scheduling and fan interest there as well.

Yes. As well as running cable out there for television.  My understanding is that we committed to adding the broadcast capabilities for softball and baseball when we joined the Valley.

IIRC per the ESPN agreement you don't have a choice. I believe the agreement the MVC has is all facilities must have the ability to broadcast at HD levels.


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[UNIFTW]

Aren't we also working on an (admittedly long overdue) renovation of our baseball field set to start this summer? That should help enhance our competitiveness scheduling and fan interest there as well.

Yes. As well as running cable out there for television.  My understanding is that we committed to adding the broadcast capabilities for softball and baseball when we joined the Valley.

IIRC per the ESPN agreement you don't have a choice. I believe the agreement the MVC has is all facilities must have the ability to broadcast at HD levels.


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[usc4valpo]

UNI has to be great - I mean it is adjacent to beautiful Waterloo!

[UNIFTW]

As opposed to Gary?


I'm not sure how this turned into wanting to   on UNI. I never once questioned Valpos education - simply that for a psych major the 36k vs 7k seems a bit silly. That was first thrown at me for UNI being cheap because it sucks.

I was attempting to have a dialogue about facilities and it instantly got shifted by a very defensive mob mentality to "UNI get state money so it can't be compared" when everything I brought up was based on donors paying for it.

Then it turns into a UNI is next to a town historically known for being filled with crime so by proxy through a joke I'll say UNI sucks.

I guess I'll let you have your echo chamber of "welp, our president just doesn't want it done and there's nothing to we can do about it"


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[UNIFTW]

Really,   is censored?  Wow.


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[crusader05]

Dude,

you are a state run university and get state dollars. It's both a fact and a factor, though not the only one. Also, when it comes to facilities et al it's partially a "I'm the only one that can say anything about my family" situation. Noone ever wins going onto another fan's message board to defend their school's honor and trying to get into a pissing contest about which schools' better.

This was a doomed thread from the start. UNI has had great success fundraising, Valpo needs more focus on athletics BUT it's still not an apples to apples comparison for LOTS of reasons.

[UNIFTW]

Who was trying to get into a passing contest? I new other facilities had been discussed so I thought I'd share UNIs plans. A few questions were asked and   went downhill fast.

Enjoy continuing to find excuse after excuse after excuse as to why things can't have.


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[a3uge]

Who was trying to get into a passing contest? I new other facilities had been discussed so I thought I'd share UNIs plans. A few questions were asked and  went downhill fast.

Enjoy continuing to find excuse after excuse after excuse as to why things can't have.


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In terms of facilities, where do you feel UNI is right now vs the rest of the MVC?