Similar history to Coach Freeman

[IndyValpo]

Western Kentucky fired their head coach today.  Check out her history over the past few seasons. Are we next?

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7662683/western-kentucky-hilltoppers-fire-mary-taylor-cowles-10-seasons-women-coach

[valpogal]

We can only hope.

[Crusader03]

Well, this topic is sure to bring every flamer, troller and hater out of the woodwork to give their "expert" opinions on Keith.

Sorry folks, he isn't going anywhere. 

[jhnmttws75]

I think 03 is right. It makes sense to keep KF who hasn't had a season over 500/winning season in the HL. Come on guys...it's about the effort he gives. Win or lose he tries and that is all we can ask for! 

[Crusader03]

I think 03 is right. It makes sense to keep KF who hasn't had a season over 500/winning season in the HL. Come on guys...it's about the effort he gives. Win or lose he tries and that is all we can ask for! 

Boy, you sure put a whole lot of words in my mouth there.

[historyman]

I think 03 is right. It makes sense to keep KF who hasn't had a season over 500/winning season in the HL. Come on guys...it's about the effort he gives. Win or lose he tries and that is all we can ask for! 

You're not supposed to help out those flamers, trollers and haters that 03 is refering to, you know, himself.  Of course his reaction will look like this    ==>  ==>  ==> <== <== <==

[setshot]

Freeman and 03 have got to go.

[IndyValpo]

Well, this topic is sure to bring every flamer, troller and hater out of the woodwork to give their "expert" opinions on Keith.

Sorry folks, he isn't going anywhere. 

I have a serious question for 03.  Why do you think Freeman should stay? 

I have laid out my reasons why I feel we need a change:
1. Last three years average wins = 9 Average finsih = 8+
2. Five year average wins in the HL = 11+, average finish = 7

Do we really need anything else?
3. Misjudgment or misuse of talent
4. Lack of creativity

What are the positives?

[Crusader03]

Well, this topic is sure to bring every flamer, troller and hater out of the woodwork to give their "expert" opinions on Keith.

Sorry folks, he isn't going anywhere. 

I have a serious question for 03.  Why do you think Freeman should stay? 

I have laid out my reasons why I feel we need a change:
1. Last three years average wins = 9 Average finsih = 8+
2. Five year average wins in the HL = 11+, avrage finish = 7

Do we really need anything else?
3. Misjudgment or misuse of talent
4. Lack of creativity

What are the positives?

I'm not saying that he necessarily SHOULD stay.  I'm just saying he WILL stay.

But, considering that he had 6 players most of the season, I don't think he did as awful a job as everyone thinks he did...there, I said it.

[covufan]

Freeman and 03 have got to go.

Deja Vu - Again I find myself agreeing with setshot!

[Crusader03]

Freeman and 03 have got to go.

Deja Vu - Again I find myself agreeing with setshot!

You just dug your message board grave by siding with the biggest blowhard in board history, setshot.

[IndyValpo]

Interesting comments made after our season ending loss:

"We need to get two more kids, and we need to have some hard meetings with people," Freeman said. "The expectation needs to be laid in terms of what we expect. I have a clear idea of what we need to go forward, what we need to be and what we can't be. This season has taught me that."

If I count players correctly we stand at 11 returning with 3 already signed up for next year.  Adding 2 means someone is leaving.  The troubling part is the need to set expectations.  We haven't done that before?  It is reassuring that after 3 seasons of 8-10 wins he has a clear idea of what we need to be and not be.  The not part is pretty easy.... continue as we have for the past 5 seasons.  It should be interesting.

[Crusader03]

Interesting comments made after our season ending loss:

"We need to get two more kids, and we need to have some hard meetings with people," Freeman said. "The expectation needs to be laid in terms of what we expect. I have a clear idea of what we need to go forward, what we need to be and what we can't be. This season has taught me that."

If I count players correctly we stand at 11 returning with 3 already signed up for next year.  Adding 2 means someone is leaving.  The troubling part is the need to set expectations.  We haven't done that before?  It is reassuring that after 3 seasons of 8-10 wins he has a clear idea of what we need to be and not be.  The not part is pretty easy.... continue as we have for the past 5 seasons.  It should be interesting.

Glad to see you finally supporting Keith!  The guy knows his stuff and battled hard against injuries this season.  It does seem like you're gettin in on the bandwagon when the gettin's good, but that's okay.  There's always room for more, friends!  indyvalpo is on board, what say the rest of you???

[IndyValpo]

Glad to see you finally supporting Keith!  The guy knows his stuff and battled hard against injuries this season.  It does seem like you're gettin in on the bandwagon when the gettin's good, but that's okay.  There's always room for more, friends!  indyvalpo is on board, what say the rest of you???

Hold on there Batman...I am not on board...these comments do not give me a warm fuzzy....just confirms what I have saying that he has been lost for awhile.  The good news...somewhere in 2012 he has "figured" it out. We appear to be stuck with him so time will tell.

[Girlsbbfan]

I find it hard to believe that folks get on this board and beat up the coaching staff with limited information. Is anyone on here a professional coach? Can you recruit? Deal with replacing players that  leave or are injured? What about attitudes of some players? Can you deal with parents that work through the administration instead of the coach? Do you watch the practices? Can you gauge the effort? Can you tell who has heart before you sign them? Most of these things are not made available for the public, so how do you know? The remainder of issues are not easy or everyone would be a head coach. Do you think it is easy to recruit at Valpo? Give me a break......and the coaches one also.

[valpotx]

It is not a coach's right to continually be employed at a university, it is a privilege.  Just like what happened with baseball after I graduated, if you don't produce for several years in a row, it is time to go.  This is not HS, where teaching is more important than the actual coaching.  All of the things you mentioned come with the territory.  I was a coach (not head coach) for 2 years at a D-1 national championship semi-finalist a few years back, and you deal with all of these aspects.  If you have 4 seasons in a row where you are barely making 10 wins in basketball, a change is needed.  Yes, recruits fizzle out and fail to live up to expectations, but that is your (and the other coaches) responsibility to combat and adapt to.  If I have several months in a row of bad performance at my current job, am I going to be kept around just because I have been here a long time?  Absolutely not, and the same applies to college sports at the D-1 level.

[Crusader03]

I find it hard to believe that folks get on this board and beat up the coaching staff with limited information. Is anyone on here a professional coach? Can you recruit? Deal with replacing players that  leave or are injured? What about attitudes of some players? Can you deal with parents that work through the administration instead of the coach? Do you watch the practices? Can you gauge the effort? Can you tell who has heart before you sign them? Most of these things are not made available for the public, so how do you know? The remainder of issues are not easy or everyone would be a head coach. Do you think it is easy to recruit at Valpo? Give me a break......and the coaches one also.

Encore!  Encore!

[Valpo2010]

It is not a coach's right to continually be employed at a university, it is a privilege.  Just like what happened with baseball after I graduated, if you don't produce for several years in a row, it is time to go.  This is not HS, where teaching is more important than the actual coaching.  All of the things you mentioned come with the territory.  I was a coach (not head coach) for 2 years at a D-1 national championship semi-finalist a few years back, and you deal with all of these aspects.  If you have 4 seasons in a row where you are barely making 10 wins in basketball, a change is needed.  Yes, recruits fizzle out and fail to live up to expectations, but that is your (and the other coaches) responsibility to combat and adapt to.  If I have several months in a row of bad performance at my current job, am I going to be kept around just because I have been here a long time?  Absolutely not, and the same applies to college sports at the D-1 level.

[IndyValpo]

Is anyone on here a professional coach?

Well, I play one on this board! 

Seriously, all those things you mentioned happen at every coaching situation in every sport. It is called part of the job.  If the bottom line is more L's than W's you ultimately lose your job.  It goes with the terrority.  Most thinking people understand this. 

[Girlsbbfan]

I'm sure glad Valpo kept Homer after he only won 4, 5, 5, and 12 wins from 89-90 thru 92-93. Look what we would have missed.

[vuweathernerd]

I'm sure glad Valpo kept Homer after he only won 4, 5, 5, and 12 wins from 89-90 thru 92-93. Look what we would have missed.

there's an upward trend there. freeman has gone the other way. you can make excuses for him all you want, but even with deeper teams the last few years, he hasn't done much. kick him to the curb.

[Crusader03]

I'm sure glad Valpo kept Homer after he only won 4, 5, 5, and 12 wins from 89-90 thru 92-93. Look what we would have missed.

there's an upward trend there. freeman has gone the other way. you can make excuses for him all you want, but even with deeper teams the last few years, he hasn't done much. kick him to the curb.

Homer was also barely .500 after returning in 2003. 

[valpotx]

I'm sure glad Valpo kept Homer after he only won 4, 5, 5, and 12 wins from 89-90 thru 92-93. Look what we would have missed.

There is a huge difference between coming into a program as a new coach, especially one that did not have a history of winning, and a coach that has been here 24 seasons.  As nerd mentioned, Homer saw an uptick in wins and talent each year to start out his Valpo career.  That gave the administration hope that the team was going in the correct direction.  Keith's teams since the last NCAA tournament have been up and down, especially these last 4 years with bad results.  It seems that each recruiting class announcement is met with nothing but accolades and amazement, but then once they are here and the season is done, he is making excuses for why they were not successful.  There comes a time when excuses are no longer valid, and now is that time.  Our 'new' AD had to make this same tough decision on my coach for baseball, and it has turned the program around.  The same can be done for women's basketball with some new blood.

[vuweathernerd]

I'm sure glad Valpo kept Homer after he only won 4, 5, 5, and 12 wins from 89-90 thru 92-93. Look what we would have missed.

there's an upward trend there. freeman has gone the other way. you can make excuses for him all you want, but even with deeper teams the last few years, he hasn't done much. kick him to the curb.

Homer was also barely .500 after returning in 2003. 

the program slid a bit after our last ncaa bid in 04, i will concede. but look at the upward trend it has taken on once again in the last 6 years:
06-07: 16-15
07-08: 22-14, in the first year in a new conference, with players nobody thought would succeed at the higher level, went to horizon tourney semis, went 1-1 in the cbi, knocking off a pac-10 team
08-09: rough down year, blame graduation, going 9-22
09-10: 15-17, a 6 game improvement over the previous year
10-11: 23-12, conference tourney semis, went to the cit. 8 more wins than the previous year.
11-12: currently 22-11, regular season champs, tourney finals, going to the nit, all with a first year head coach.
total: 107-91

now for the women's side.
07-08: 14-16
08-09: 16-14, beat purdue at the arc, almost beat nd at the arc (i was at both those games, actually.)
09-10: 9-21
10-11: 7-24, 50 pt loss to the irish at the arc.
11-12: 10-21, first time in 5 years they've won a first round tourney game.
total: 56-96

in theory, there's nowhere to go but up from how bad we've been. but i don't have the faith in freeman that was there just a few short years ago.

[valporun]

I can definitely say one of the things that has affected the women's team in the years denoted is the recruiting that Steve Bruce did for the women's team was severely lost. In each of the classes, since he's left, the women have had a lot of transfers, but were mostly brought in because of high school stats, but the way they played reflected in they weren't D-I players, or weren't willing to put in the work to be a D-I player. Also, we've had the "can shoot the lights out" recruits, but they weren't good at shot selection for the college level, couldn't play defense, or were just too slow for Freeman's system. I don't know who is the recruiting coordinator on the staff, but honestly, they aren't looking as closely at the player as they are the stats. Other than Greg Kirby, we don't have anyone else on this coaching staff that has been around long enough to have a real grasp on the system, and how to recruit for it. Sadly, even Kirby can't recruit for it, and I think that is a fault of his own. I'm not sure what system he's recruiting some of these players for, but it seems like he's recruiting soft players. We don't have any physical rebounders or strong ball handlers, like we had in the Amber Schobers, Jeanette Grays, Lauren Bechtolds, Jamie Gutowskis, Suzie Hammels, Baughers, and such from the early 2000s. These were all teams that had Steve Bruce as a part of the recruiting haul.

The only real problem that has affected our roster the last three years has been injuries to D-I players or the physical players we've needed to be competitive. We have that one critical injury, and the season is basically done.