Butler to move to the A-10?

[blackpantheruwm]

OK, time to sound elitist.  Why does America know anything about the Horizon League?  Not because Butler emerged from a doormat in the 90's to go to multiple NCAA tournaments.  Not because they swept the conference 2 years ago. 

It's because a small, private university in Indianapolis defied tremendous odds and went to not one, but two consecutive NCAA championship games.  The games we are watching in this year's tournament........ Ohio U., Norfolk State, Lehigh........ Butler did that almost EVERY GAME 2 consecutive years.  Not only is it unprecedented for a mid-major, it may never happen again. 

This is why America knows the Horizon League.

If ya' all think they can be easily replaced I have no hope for you.

Bing.

[wh]

Some food for thought for Butler fans, written by a free lance writer who is also a BU alum and Bulldog fan:

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1102979-butler-to-the-atlantic-10-hold-on-a-minute-do-the-cons-outweigh-the-pros

[FWalum]

I do think that the Horizon League with Butler continuing in the conference, starts to move up in the conference rankings.  I would hope that next year we are a two bid league.  I think if Bryce continues at VU we are consistently near the top of the league and recruiting gets better each year.  It is still a little early to see if the league gets any kind of a recruiting bump from Butler's success, lets wait and see how Butler and VU and the rest of the league do next year on the court.  Two things, that if they stay the same, will raise this league, Butler remains and the good young coaches (Stevens and Drew in particular) stay for a while.

[covufan]

Some food for thought for Butler fans, written by a free lance writer who is also a BU alum and Bulldog fan:

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1102979-butler-to-the-atlantic-10-hold-on-a-minute-do-the-cons-outweigh-the-pros

Good article.  I like the Gonzaga comparison.  Butler may be better served in the long run to stay with the HL.  The HL is stepping up its game to Butler, as far as men's basketball is concerned.  In the A-10, they could become a mid-pack team, with an occasional title and NCAA at large berth.  The A-10 had nine teams ahead of Butler in the RPI ratings this year.  While Butler should be able to compete, is the travel worth the change?  I think staying in the HL, with the HL leadership assisting in getting HL teams quality pre-season opponents (Butler can schedule whomever they please, others not so much), the HL would begin to become one to the leagues with multiple NCAA bids. 

[covufan]

Looking at the A-10 league, I really like the Horizon League with only 10 teams.  We have a home-and-home with each team, every season.  Would I replace YSU with Duquesne, maybe.

[gmoser1210]

The Gonzaga comparison is just wrong.  The WCC has always been a 1-2 bid conference (at least as far back as 1994).  I'll post the same thing I posted on the Butler board.  The WCC has 3 teams this year because they added BYU to their conference.  Before BYU, they only had more than two bids once -- the same number of times as the Horizon League.  People say that the other teams in the WCC grew into at-large programs because they had to after Gonzaga became an elite program.  However, if you look at the number of bids they received and the conference's RPI since Gonzaga's first run in 1999, that's not really the case.  Some years are okay, but other years not so much.  Furthermore, the WCC was receiving multiple bids before Gonzaga had their run in 1999.  I'd argue that the WCC hasn't actually gotten much better and is really only slightly better than the Horizon, if at all.

Teams in the NCAA:

	'12	'11	'10	'09	'08	'07	'06	'05	'04	'03	'02	'01	'00	'99	'98	'97	'96	'95	'94
WCC	3	1	2	1	3	1	1	2	1	2	2	1	2	1	1	1	2	2	1
Horizon	1	1	1	2	1	2	1	1	1	2	1	1	1	1	3	1	2	2	0

Conference RPI Rank

	'12	'11	'10	'09	'08	'07	'06	'05	'04	'03	'02	'01	'00	'99	'98
WCC	11	14	13	15	15	14	12	7	12	12	17	18	9	15	11
Horizon	14	11	14	12	11	12	15	20	15	13	16	11	25	16	10

[agibson]

It feels like St. Mary's has been a lot more competitive lately, the last few... or maybe ten-years?  They're obviously not always at-large caliber, but often are, and are often at least in the conversation.

I'd have to look back at the older two-bid seasons and see how many were "Gonzaga at-large, upset in the conference tournament" and how many actually had two at-large quality teams.

[blackpantheruwm]

That comparison is...lacking.  The WCC may as well be another world.

We know there is one team going to the A10 with Butler, based on what the Richmond AD and Duquesne President have said (former in passing, latter in this letter: http://cbsprt.co/GL6MU7 )

Link: A10 moves could affect Horizon beyond Butler

It looks like Charlotte is on their way out of the A10, which would make Butler's addition bring the conference to 13.  This makes me thing the A10 is adding an odd number of schools (besides Butler).  I see two scenarios, if we can assume Butler is in and Charlotte is out.

1. VCU
2. VCU, George Mason and Creighton

These are the two scenarios I see playing out.  ODU could be in there for Creighton, but I think the Bluejays are the fourth addition.  I then ramble and have some fun to see what the 10th team in the MVC would be.

[valpopal]

Butler coachBrad Stevens says he is staying with the Bulldogs. "Stevens says he is 'happy and extremely grateful' to be the Butler coach, and is already looking forward to next season. He made his remarks in a statement issued by the school on Sunday. The reason for the statement was unclear, but Illinois is currently searching for a coach and there has been speculation that the Illini were interested in Stevens."

If Butler were staying in the Horizon League, I doubt such a statement would be made.

Therefore, along with the CBS Sports report this morning that Butler, VCU, and George Mason are in talks with the A-10 for their entry, this certainly indicates the expected announcement soon, perhaps after the NCAA championship weekend, of Butler's departure from the Horizon League at the end of next season.

[crusaderjoe]

That comparison is...lacking.  The WCC may as well be another world.

We know there is one team going to the A10 with Butler, based on what the Richmond AD and Duquesne President have said (former in passing, latter in this letter: http://cbsprt.co/GL6MU7 )

Link: A10 moves could affect Horizon beyond Butler

It looks like Charlotte is on their way out of the A10, which would make Butler's addition bring the conference to 13.  This makes me thing the A10 is adding an odd number of schools (besides Butler).  I see two scenarios, if we can assume Butler is in and Charlotte is out.

1. VCU
2. VCU, George Mason and Creighton

These are the two scenarios I see playing out.  ODU could be in there for Creighton, but I think the Bluejays are the fourth addition.  I then ramble and have some fun to see what the 10th team in the MVC would be.

Jimmy I thought you were crazy when you mentioned Creighton as a possibility for the A-10, but then I read that CBS article yesterday where the school was actually mentioned as a long shot.  Very interesting to say the least that they were mentioned.  I suppose when you tie in the fact that CU's current president was formerly the president of St. Joe's and the fact that it is the only Catholic institution in the MVC, this doesn't sound so off the wall after all--particularly so if the A-10 moves to two geographically compact divisions.  While in Nebraska, CU is only a stones throw away from Iowa, so it's not like another time zone would come into play with their addition.

Per various message boards, FAU is staying put in the Sun Belt, which might mean that FIU will be the south Florida school leaving the Sun Belt for the mega conference.  Karl Benson, former WAC commissioner is now the new Sun Belt commissioner.  The MWC commissioner paid a visit to SJSU recently...another WAC defection?  Is this the precursor for a WAC/Sun Belt merger when the dust settles?  (Hello Western Kentucky...do you really want to travel to New Mexico and Idaho for your non football sporting teams?  Park your football in the Belt and come on over.)  Potentially the MWC, CUSA, WAC, Sun Belt, A-10, HL, MVC, CAA et. al. might all be effected by the dominoes are starting to fall for either football or basketball reasons.  I hope the VU AD has a contingency plan in place for conference affiliation.  As I said a few months ago, it would be foolish not to.

[agibson]

If Butler were staying in the Horizon League, I doubt such a statement would be made.

They may well (very likely?) leave for the A10.  But, I can imagine them putting out the statement based solely on 1)An additional conversation with Stevens, and 2)The Illinois rumors.

Why would switching to the A10 make Stevens more likely to leave  Butler?

[bbtds]

If Butler were staying in the Horizon League, I doubt such a statement would be made.

They may well (very likely?) leave for the A10.  But, I can imagine them putting out the statement based solely on 1)An additional conversation with Stevens, and 2)The Illinois rumors.

Why would switching to the A10 make Stevens more likely to leave  Butler?

It would be a comfort statement for the Butler faithful that beyond the Butler Way, beyond Rotnei Clarke-the savior of the "shot-making deprived" Butler world, the Bulldogs will have their head coach secured as they head into the A-10. Do myou really think they believe in their recruiting formula yet?

[valpopal]

If Butler were staying in the Horizon League, I doubt such a statement would be made.

They may well (very likely?) leave for the A10.  But, I can imagine them putting out the statement based solely on 1)An additional conversation with Stevens, and 2)The Illinois rumors.

Why would switching to the A10 make Stevens more likely to leave  Butler?

I think you have misread my comment. I was indicating that switching to the A-10 makes Stevens more likely to stay at Butler, which is why he could be confident in stating that he is looking forward to remaining as Butler's coach. If Butler were not leaving the Horizon League, I believe Stevens would be more open to the possibility of a position in a higher conference and would not make such a statement at this time. I'm convinced his talks with the Butler folks included assurance that the university was pursuing the move to the A-10.

[valpotx]

One more season to sweep the Bulldogs 

[FWalum]

I think you have misread my comment. I was indicating that switching to the A-10 makes Stevens more likely to stay at Butler, which is why he could be confident in stating that he is looking forward to remaining as Butler's coach. If Butler were not leaving the Horizon League, I believe Stevens would be more open to the possibility of a position in a higher conference and would not make such a statement at this time. I'm convinced his talks with the Butler folks included assurance that the university was pursuing the move to the A-10.

He has made a similar statement almost every year since he took the job and had great success.  I think that turning down a reported 21 million dollar 8-year contract is reason enough to make a statement. Why would this year's statement be tied to the A-10 move?

[valpopal]

I think you have misread my comment. I was indicating that switching to the A-10 makes Stevens more likely to stay at Butler, which is why he could be confident in stating that he is looking forward to remaining as Butler's coach. If Butler were not leaving the Horizon League, I believe Stevens would be more open to the possibility of a position in a higher conference and would not make such a statement at this time. I'm convinced his talks with the Butler folks included assurance that the university was pursuing the move to the A-10.

He has made a similar statement almost every year since he took the job and had great success.  I think that turning down a reported 21 million dollar 8-year contract is reason enough to make a statement. Why would this year's statement be tied to the A-10 move?

The fact that Stevens is reportedly turning down such a lucrative offer and the Butler administration is distributing the statement on his behalf lead to my conclusion that Stevens got assurance from Butler that they would pursue the move to the A-10, and it probably is already almost a done deal, if not certain.

If I were receiving offers like the one Illinois supposedly made, I would not be smart to close the door on that or similar opportunities that might arise unless I had received confirmation from Butler that the team would be moving up in league affiliation (and maybe some other assurances as well), and I'm positive Stevens is as smart as I am.

Having been on both sides of such conversations at universities (though, admittedly not for $1 million salaries), I know this is how university hiring and retention negotiations work.

[agibson]

If I were receiving offers like the one Illinois supposedly made, I would not be smart to close the door on that or similar opportunities that might arise unless I had received confirmation from Butler that the team would be moving up in league affiliation (and maybe some other assurances as well), and I'm positive Stevens is as smart as I am.

Unless, you know, he actually is just happy at Butler.  Even in the Horizon.  At a mere $1M a year.  And doesn't want to move currently... or ever.

[bbtds]

Meet Mrs. Tracy Stevens, a labor lawyer in downtown Indy. She makes half of what Brad makes but has just as much potential as Brad for earnings. Why move up if you are happy being king of the hill where you are?

http://www.lawyercentral.com/Tracy-Stevens-Interactive-Profile--20-260384.html

http://www.martindale.com/Tracy-Stevens/4691457-lawyer.htm

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/sports/Tonight_at_11_pm_Top_Dawg

Tracy Stevens: I did. Well, I am a labor and employment attorney, so I write employment contracts every day. So it just made sense. And usually when you are getting that offer, it's a pretty quick turnaround. So Brad called and said, "I have a contract, I need you to look at it." And I have never been so happy to look at a contract before.

BS: I said, "Don't be too critical, let's just do this and be done with it." I then joked and said, "I am the only coach in the country paying 100 percent to his attorney."

The Stevens have a three-year-old son named Brady and are expecting another child in May. They met at DePauw and even back then, Tracy said basketball was a big part of their lives.

TS: Our third date, we drove from Greencastle to Anderson to go to a high school game at the Wigwam. At the time, I should have known what I was getting into.

Tracy has spent a lot of time behind the bench, watching her husband become one of the hottest names in coaching.


Stevens's father Mark is an orthopedic surgeon in Indianapolis and former Indiana Hoosiers football player.[6] His mother Jan is a university professor.[4] She has previously taught at Butler.[31]

Brad just doesn't see the advantages of moving. I believe he still lives near Zionsville if not in Carmel.

[valpopal]

If I were receiving offers like the one Illinois supposedly made, I would not be smart to close the door on that or similar opportunities that might arise unless I had received confirmation from Butler that the team would be moving up in league affiliation (and maybe some other assurances as well), and I'm positive Stevens is as smart as I am.

Unless, you know, he actually is just happy at Butler.  Even in the Horizon.  At a mere $1M a year.  And doesn't want to move currently... or ever.

Even if he is happy at Butler, which I believe he is, and has no desire to leave, he would be wise to use these advantageous circumstances to negotiate assurances about the team's future, its position in a stronger conference, and its facilities, as well as the situation for himself and his assistant coaches. How many of us have suggested or requested Bryce do the same thing now that he may be in demand so that the Crusaders be assured of more support and better facilities in the future, even if Bryce is very happy at Valpo? 

[valporun]

Facilities and directions of program aside, whatever happened to the idea of being loyal to a program and community that you feel a big part of? If coaching is only about the money, why not say from now on that all head coaches are really the "Director/Overlord of Basketball Operations", instead of "head coach"? Not every coach coaches because the money is good, or because the conference is better at the next available job. Some coaches coach because it is in their blood, and it is a way of giving back to the community that provided them an identity. Million dollar contracts tarnish that ability to coach more than the players the coach brings in.

[agibson]

You're assuming that the status quo is inadequate.

What if Butler, or even Valpo, are actually where they should be?  That, at the moment, they're in an appropriate conference, in appropriate facilities (with reasonable plans for those to develop, perhaps), with coaches getting paid reasonable salaries?  Could Butler, or VU, devote more money to the head basketball coach's salary, or to basketball facilities?  Sure, hypothetically.  But, that money has to come from somewhere.  Either dedicated fundraising, or money that could be spent somewhere else.  What if Bryce and Brad agree that the current situation is reasonable?  That it would be inappropriate, unbalanced, to spend more money on basketball at present?  Or to switch conferences?

Too much of a stretch for a basketball message board, perhaps.

[valpopal]

Facilities and directions of program aside, whatever happened to the idea of being loyal to a program and community that you feel a big part of?

Well, of course, if you put "facilities and directions of programs aside," but those are major parts of the discussion.

[valpotx]

Would most people stay at their current job when offered $50k more to perform a similar job somewhere else in the same city?  It is the same for coaching, that sometimes the lure of the almighty $ can be hard to turn down.

[valpo04]

Would most people stay at their current job when offered $50k more to perform a similar job somewhere else in the same city?  It is the same for coaching, that sometimes the lure of the almighty $ can be hard to turn down.

This.

I love how people act like coaching is somehow different from other professions and that they should have loyalty to their job. 

[milanmiracle]

Coaching is different from 9-5 jobs, in many many ways. There are different standards for coaching vs. the general business sector.

*For the record I am of the belief that there is no loyalty in business.