Butler to move to the A-10?

[wh]

I'm beginning to get the feeling that this may not be the "done deal" that some are proclaiming it to be...

[bbtds]

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120331/SPORTS0605/203310328?odyssey=mod%7Cmostcom

Butler to Atlantic 10? Here are pros and cons

Pluses
» At-large berths: Since 2000, the Horizon League has received three at-large bids . . . all to Butler. The A-10 had three this season alone, and 20 since 2000. This year's Horizon League champion, Detroit, was a No. 15 seed. All four of the A-10 entries were seeded No. 14 or better, and with three No. 10 or better.

» More exposure: The Horizon League has one top-10 television market -- Chicago, which ranks third nationally, according to stationindex.com. Detroit ranks No. 11 and Indianapolis No. 25. The A-10 includes No. 1 New York, No. 4 Philadelphia and No. 9 Washington, D.C. Butler also would make regular trips to three others in the top 25: St. Louis (21), Pittsburgh (23) and Charlotte, N.C. (24).

From a television contract standpoint, both the Horizon and A-10 appear on ESPN, but the A-10 also has a deal with CBS College Sports.

» Recruiting: The points above make the A-10 a more attractive recruiting option.

"The competition is at a higher level, and with the bigger markets, you're just seen by more people,'' said Jerry Meyer, basketball recruiting analyst for Rivals.com. "There's no question that playing in the A-10 would be much more appealing to recruits than playing in the Horizon League.''

Minuses
» Travel: In the Horizon, the farthest trip for the Bulldogs is to Green Bay, a distance of 382 miles, according to mapquest .com. They have two other trips of more than 300 miles.

In the A-10, 300 miles would feel like a leisure trip. Two schools, UMass and Rhode Island, are about 880 miles from Indianapolis. New York is 710, Richmond, Va., 653, Philadelphia 644 and Charlotte 625. The average trip in the Horizon is 248 miles. In the A-10, it will be more than 500, which would significantly increase expenses.

» Alumni base: According to figures provided by the school, the A-10 would leave the Bulldogs without a conference rival in the area with the highest concentration of Butler's 44,000 alumni outside of Central Indiana: Chicago (5.1 percent). It would pick up visits to Washington, D.C. (1.7 percent) and the New York area (1.5 percent) but also leave Detroit (1.0 percent). Forty-three percent of Butler's alumni live in Central Indiana.

» Fewer titles: Since 2000, Butler has been the top-ranked basketball team in the Horizon League in terms of Rating Percentage Index nine times. In those same nine seasons, however, the Bulldogs would have only topped the Atlantic 10 twice, and three times it would have ranked fourth.

Neutral
» Rivalries: Xavier, Dayton and St. Louis are within reasonable driving distances and would have significant potential as rivals. But it would be difficult to leave behind established rivalries with Valparaiso, Detroit and Wright State.

[wh]

The map in the plus/minus story is certainly revealing.  The majority of teams are located hundreds of miles away from Indy along the eastern seaboard.  The added costs and time away from the classroom for their student athletes would have to be staggering.  Bus trips would be killers and yet how could they possibly afford to fly all their teams everywhere?  This is something I would never want to see Valpo do.  The quality of life for every athlete in every sport would suffer just so their men's basketball team can...I forgot, why is it they're doing this again?  I'm sorry, but this takes silly to a whole level.  I can't imagine their President and trustees buying into such a thing. 

[dylanrocks]

"The average trip in the Horizon is 248 miles. In the A-10, it will be more than 500, which would significantly increase expenses."

Think not just of the teams, but the fans.

A handful of us here in Milwaukee love to travel to out-of-town games. It takes four hours to drive 248 miles and eight hours to drive 500 miles. That takes a day trip and turns it into an overnight stay, so there's an additional cost for lodging and meals.

I also checked airfares from Indianapolis to New York and Washington, D.C. The cost of a nonstop flight to New York is $372 or $380 and the cost of all nonstop flights to the nation's capitol is $422.

It costs us about $35 for a round-trip drive to Green Bay or Chicago and $42 for a round-trip drive to Valparaiso. In all cases, it's about an eight-hour commitment; a little more if we stop for a meal.

These are obviously not insignificant numbers.

[valpopal]

If the A-10 divides itself into two divisions upon the entry of Butler (and other teams) as has been suggested in some places, both made up of schools in geographical proximity, with two games against each other within the division and one against some teams in the other division, the travel situation would not be as much of a problem.

A 16-team conference would have two 8-team divisions in which Butler would play two games against the seven within its division and 4 games against teams from the other division, only two of those being travel games, for an 18-game conference schedule. Hypothetical teams in Butler's conference could include St. Louis, Dayton, Xavier, Duquesne, St. Bonaventure, Charlotte, Richmond or some such configuration.

Though something similar would never happen until VU built its program and significantly improved facilities, replace Butler with Valpo and I certainly would accept this proposal. With all the added advantages Butler has in terms of budget and a large urban location, I can't see why Butler would not.

[wh]

I'm sure we could brainstorm all kinds of cool, workable conference configurations.  Unfortunately, none would have any connection to current reality.   

[wh]

The map in the plus/minus story is certainly revealing.  The majority of teams are located hundreds of miles away from Indy along the eastern seaboard.  The added costs and time away from the classroom for their student athletes would have to be staggering.  Bus trips would be killers and yet how could they possibly afford to fly all their teams everywhere?  This is something I would never want to see Valpo do.  The quality of life for every athlete in every sport would suffer just so their men's basketball team can...I forgot, why is it they're doing this again?  I'm sorry, but this takes silly to a whole level.  I can't imagine their President and trustees buying into such a thing. 

Gee, what a surprising development:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120409/SPORTS0605/204090310/Butler-move-Atlantic-10-far-from-certain-trustee-says?odyssey=tab

[agibson]

From that article

The trustee said Butler has not been formally asked to join the conference, and an A-10 spokesman said no invitation has been made.

So, indeed, perhaps it's all swamp gas?

[bbtds]

From that article

The trustee said Butler has not been formally asked to join the conference, and an A-10 spokesman said no invitation has been made.

So, indeed, perhaps it's all swamp gas?

It's certainly not all swamp gas. Having Butler join your conference, if only for basketball, would be a big plus for the conference. In many people's opinions in Indy it would be a bigger coup than getting Indiana or Purdue to leave the B1G.

But ask someone on the softball or men's soccer team at St. Louis University what it is like traveling to Richmond,VA, Philadelphia, Kingston, RI, Charlotte, Bronx,NY, St. Bonaventure,NY(near Erie,PA & Buffalo,NY), Amherst,MA(north of Springfield,MA in western Mass), Pittsburgh and Washington DC and also go to class in St. Louis. Those are the athletes who would really enjoy playing their sports but life in the classroom can't be easy.

I'm pretty sure Butler would add back men's LaCrosse and to balance it out women's LaCrosse too. 

[blackpantheruwm]

From that article

The trustee said Butler has not been formally asked to join the conference, and an A-10 spokesman said no invitation has been made.

So, indeed, perhaps it's all swamp gas?

It's certainly not all swamp gas. Having Butler join your conference, if only for basketball, would be a big plus for the conference. In many people's opinions in Indy it would be a bigger coup than getting Indiana or Purdue to leave the B1G.

But ask someone on the softball or men's soccer team at St. Louis University what it is like traveling to Richmond,VA, Philadelphia, Kingston, RI, Charlotte, Bronx,NY, St. Bonaventure,NY(near Erie,PA & Buffalo,NY), Amherst,MA(north of Springfield,MA in western Mass), Pittsburgh and Washington DC and also go to class in St. Louis. Those are the athletes who would really enjoy playing their sports but life in the classroom can't be easy.

I'm pretty sure Butler would add back men's LaCrosse and to balance it out women's LaCrosse too. 

Butler has been considering LAX for years now, especially with new programs popping up at Detroit and Marquette. They've got other priorities, however.

This isn't smoke. The university is doing due diligence, and the A10 hasn't had the private "yes" answers from all parties yet. It will take a little time.

[okinawatyphoon]

I would like to see Valpo add lacrosse, and with the new field house in the future, we'd have a place to do it.

[valpo04]

I would like to see Valpo add lacrosse, and with the new field house in the future, we'd have a place to do it.

College lacrosse isn't played indoors...

[okinawatyphoon]

I would like to see Valpo add lacrosse, and with the new field house in the future, we'd have a place to do it.

College lacrosse isn't played indoors...

not for games necessarily, but a field house with an artificial turf surface can be their practice facility while using brown field for games. just a thought.

[setshot]

'04: Saw where Maryland upset Johns Hopkins in LAX this past weekend. The 108th meeting between the schools. Wow! Go Bluejays.

[StlVUFan]

04, your avatar is not one of my favorites tonight 

[bbtds]

Butler currently has a club lacrosse team after their NCAA Div.1 program was ended in 2007.

Butler Men's Lacrosse is member of the CCLA (Central Colligate Lacrosse Association). The CCLA is division of the MCLA (Men's Colligate Lacrosse Association), one of the top Club Lacrosse programs in the nation. The team is now in their 2nd season in the CCLA, and their 5th season as a club team.

The team is compromised of players of many levels of experience, ranging from 15 years of experice to athletes just learning the game. The team practices 4-5 days and plays about 12 games during the season.

In their first year in the CCLA, they were 2nd in their division and were the 8th seed in the playoffs.


History

Butler Men's Lacrosse began in 1993 at the NCAA Division I level and continued until 2007 when the University suddenly decided to disband the program.

However, many men at Butler still wanted to play lacrosse and a group of players started the Club team in March of 2007. Orginally coached by players, the team now employs a coach to lead the team.


http://butlerlacrosse.com/index.html


I think Valpo would need to start at the club level before jumping into NCAA Div1 lacrosse.

[valpo04]

'04: Saw where Maryland upset Johns Hopkins in LAX this past weekend. The 108th meeting between the schools. Wow! Go Bluejays.

Yes, quite the upset.  Couldn't believe they held the Jays scoreless for nearly 30 mins!

[valpo04]

04, your avatar is not one of my favorites tonight 

Can't dislike a smiley cartoon bird!!

The Orioles made the Sox look like... the Orioles of the past 14 years!

[StlVUFan]

04, your avatar is not one of my favorites tonight 

Can't dislike a smiley cartoon bird!!

The Orioles made the Sox look like... the Orioles of the past 14 years!

In spite of 2005, and quite to my surprise, I'm still doing a slow-burn from 1983.  Tito-frickin-Landrum lucks into the one moment of perfect calm in an otherwise windy day; Flanagan ruins Kittle's career, Dempsey is shocked that Kittle would be upset, and Murray whines his way into a 3-run homer; the Dybber was hypnotized into the base-running gaffe of all base-running gaffes by that stupid emblem, thus vaulting Baltimore into a World Series that the White Sox would have swept (because McGregor can't win at home) -- and make no mistake, if you don't get downright lucky that gloomy Saturday, there's no way you beat LaMarr Hoyt (the only Sox player immune to the spell) on Sunday.

Am I bitter?  Nah......

Actually, it's the White Sox that continually make the White Sox look like the Orioles of the past 14 years.  Just like that stupid Game 4, last night's game was an absolute gift.  I have no idea why the O's are Leviathan (God's rubber ducky) to everyone else and Galactus the planet eater to the White Sox, even when the Orioles suck.  Whatever it is it continues to cast a pall on my baseball fandom.  Maybe that's why I hang onto the Cardinals as my National League Team To Root For.

[covufan]

04, your avatar is not one of my favorites tonight 

Can't dislike a smiley cartoon bird!!

The Orioles made the Sox look like... the Orioles of the past 14 years!

In spite of 2005, and quite to my surprise, I'm still doing a slow-burn from 1983.  Tito-frickin-Landrum lucks into the one moment of perfect calm in an otherwise windy day; Flanagan ruins Kittle's career, Dempsey is shocked that Kittle would be upset, and Murray whines his way into a 3-run homer; the Dybber was hypnotized into the base-running gaffe of all base-running gaffes by that stupid emblem, thus vaulting Baltimore into a World Series that the White Sox would have swept (because McGregor can't win at home) -- and make no mistake, if you don't get downright lucky that gloomy Saturday, there's no way you beat LaMarr Hoyt (the only Sox player immune to the spell) on Sunday.

Am I bitter?  Nah......

Actually, it's the White Sox that continually make the White Sox look like the Orioles of the past 14 years.  Just like that stupid Game 4, last night's game was an absolute gift.  I have no idea why the O's are Leviathan (God's rubber ducky) to everyone else and Galactus the planet eater to the White Sox, even when the Orioles suck.  Whatever it is it continues to cast a pall on my baseball fandom.  Maybe that's why I hang onto the Cardinals as my National League Team To Root For.

Hoyt was unstoppable that year(maybe the coke?).  If they could have made it to the next game...

[wh]

I just saw a report on SB Nation that Butler will be joining the A-10 on May 1.

[VULB#62]

Thanks WH.

From the SB Nation website:


"Report: VCU And George Mason To Join Atlantic 10 On May 1
Apr
20
1:32p
by Mike Rutherford

On May 1, George Mason and VCU will be leaving the Colonial Athletic Association to join the Atlantic 10 Conference. This according to Lenn Robbins of the New York Post.

Robbins added that Butler will "probably" be joining the conference as well. The Bulldogs are currently a member of the Horizon League." [my emphasis]

[wh]

Now VCU is saying there is nothing to the report that they will be moving to the A-10.

VCU denies report on A-10 plans
By Marc Davis


RICHMOND, VA (WWBT) - VCU is refuting a NY Post report which claims the Rams will defect from the CAA to join the Atlantic 10 conference by the end of the month.

The Post tweeted "George Mason and VCU to the A-10 on May 1...Butler probably...The Post has learned" Friday, adding fuel to speculation the Rams would switch conferences. However, sources at VCU are adamantly denying the report.

Last month CBS Sports reported VCU and GMU were in talks with the A-10, but VCU Athletic Director Norwood Teague sent out a statement saying that the school had no contact with other conferences.

11 years ago, the University of Richmond left the CAA to go to the A-10. 

[agibson]

How can anybody leave on May 1?  There could be an announcement May 1, but I think you'd want to announce it with approximately a season's lead time.

[vuweathernerd]

How can anybody leave on May 1?  There could be an announcement May 1, but I think you'd want to announce it with approximately a season's lead time.

not to mention that 1 may is still in the middle of the season for some spring sports, i believe. most places, the academic calendar (to include all things athletics) runs from 1 july to 30 june.