Butler to move to the A-10?

[KL31NY]

According to Andy Katz, done deal: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7879598/butler-bulldogs-join-atlantic-10-conference-all-sports-source-says

Butler's departure will crush the Horizon League. The Horizon League is left with lower-profile Midwestern schools in Cleveland State, Loyola (Ill.), Detroit, Illinois-Chicago, Green Bay, Milwaukee, Valparaiso, Wright State and Youngstown State.

[crusaderjoe]

This is getting interesting...rumors have Charlotte leaving the A10 and ODU leaving the CAA to join CUSA.

What do you mean "getting"?  It's been interesting for a while now. 

CUSA to add six schools:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/18923863/conference-usa-reloading-by-adding-6-schools

Did I mention already that WAC football is dead? 

[dylanrocks]

The bell is now tolling for the Horizon League.

LeCrone's next move could mean the difference between survival and extinction.

My advice: find a way to scuttle Youngstown; don't add IPFW, IUPUI or any of the Dakota schools; add Oakland; and try to expand the league's footprint to the south.

[BigDWSU]

One of the posters on WSU's board did some decent research into some teams from lower rated conferences that might want to mkae the jump up to the HL. 

Oakland
Current conference: Summit
RPI the last 5 years: 141, 53, 52, 122, 169
NCAA appearances: 05, 10, 11
Facilities: Athletics Center O'rena, seats: 4055, 2012 attendance: 3346
Budget: 10 million
Location: Detroit, MI

Robert Morris
Current conference: Northeast
RPI the last 5 years: 100, 100, 129, 109, 132
NCAA appearances: 82, 83, 89, 90, 92, 09, 10
Facilities: Sewall Center, seats: 3056, 2012 attendance: 1477
Budget: 13 million
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Drexel (if VCU and George Mason leave the CAA)
Current conference: CAA
RPI the last 5 years: 66, 74, 146, 133, 238
NCAA appearances: 86, 94, 95, 96
Facilities: Daskalakis Athletic Center, seats: 2300, 2012 attendance:2185
Budget: 16 million
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Murray State
Current conference: OVC
RPI the last 5 years: 22, 117, 57, 148, 189
NCAA appearances: 64, 69, 88, 90, 91, 95, 97, 98, 99, 02, 04, 06, 10, 12
Facilities:
Budget: 13 million
Location: Murray, KY

Morehead St
Current conference: OVC
RPI the last 5 years: 166, 77, 84, 141, 233
NCAA appearances: 56, 57, 61, 83, 84, 09, 11
Facilities: Johnson Arena, seats: 6500, 2012 attendance: 2241
Budget: 7.5 million
Location: Morehead, KY

Belmont
Current conference: Atlantic Sun
RPI the last 5 years: 58, 51, 135, 124, 76
NCAA appearances: 06, 07, 08, 11, 12
Facilities: Curb Event Center, seats: 5000, 2012 attendance: 2012
Budget: 8 million
Location: Nashville, TN

Northern Kentucky
Current conference: entering the Atlantic Sun in 2012/13
RPI the last 5 years: NA (D2)
NCAA appearances: NA (D2)
Facilities: Bank of Kentucky Center, seats: 9400, 2012 attendance: 1796
Budget: 5.8 million
Location: Highland Hts, KY

http://www.wrightstate.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2512

[dylanrocks]

Good stuff, Big D.

Southward expansion may be the key.

[IndyValpo]

One of the posters on WSU's board did some decent research into some teams from lower rated conferences that might want to mkae the jump up to the HL.

Nice list but several of these are non-starters.  Murray plays football in the OVC and will have zero interest.  Belmont is moving to the OVC, once again no interest. The last tme the league had a Philly school it was a flop. Drexel will have better alternatives than the HL.  I would love to add Robert Morris but they seem to consider themselves east coast, plus I think there is a football conflict.  I doubt Morehead would leave the OVC but there is no football conflict.  Obviously Oakland works for us and would jump to join.  NKU is not even D1 yet but the HL is a better alternative for them not sure about us.  Personally, and selfishly, I would add IUPUI. I would make them play conference games at Bankers Life and add baseball.

[BigDWSU]

The OVC is a   conference.  I think any of those schools would be willing to listen to the HL's pitch, but in the end I think you are right.  I think Robert Morris would be interested if Drexel was involved.  I don't think Drexel is going to have as many options as you think if VCU and George Mason leaves the CAA.  The rest of that conference is made of football schools.  There are several small east coast conferences they can look at, but the HL is still a much higher rated conference than any of them.   Northern Kentucky enters their first year of D1 next year.  I think they would be a good option 5-10 years from now after they are more established in D1.  Oakland is the obvious choice if we add 1 team.  Personally, I would love to add Drexel, Robert Morris, and Oakland and split to east/west divisions. 

[Valpo71]

WISH-TV confirmed Butler's move to the A-10 on tonight's 11:00 news.  The announcement will be made tomorrow morning for Butler to begin play in 2013 with a $50,000 exit fee to the Horizon League.

[vuweathernerd]

WISH-TV confirmed Butler's move to the A-10 on tonight's 11:00 news.  The announcement will be made tomorrow morning for Butler to begin play in 2013 with a $50,000 exit fee to the Horizon League.

i wonder if it'd be a lot higher if they weren't forfeiting the ncaa money over the next several years.

[mj]

Tough to see Butler go. I think adding Oakland should become a high priority for the Horizon League.

Nothing against Butler, but hopefully they don't find themselves in over their head in the A-10. A major part of their success was the nice surprise of Gordon Hayward. IIRC, Matt Howard fell to them after a scholarship crunch at Purdue. They obviously put in hard work to get where they are, but you'd have to be naive not to realize they had some luck on their side. Side note, I wonder how this affects all of their other sports? 

[valpotx]

I guess we have to enjoy kicking the crap out of Butler this year in all HL sports (13-4-2 in men/women's basketball, baseball, softball, men/women's soccer, volleyball), as well as hopefully next year  .  They won't be scheduling us in men's basketball anytime in the near future, but we will probably still play them occasionally in other sports as we always have. 

Good move for them, can't fault them.  Hopefully we move forward with Oakland, and maybe two others that were mentioned.  I would also agree that a move into KY or TN might benefit the HL with our main national player leaving. 

[IndyValpo]

The bell is now tolling for the Horizon League.

LeCrone's next move could mean the difference between survival and extinction.

My advice: find a way to scuttle Youngstown; don't add IPFW, IUPUI or any of the Dakota schools; add Oakland; and try to expand the league's footprint to the south.

There is no way Butler leaving causes the HLL to go extinct.  Frankly, that is the kind of thing I would expect Butler people to say.  Will they be missed?  Of course this does not kill the league.

[wh]

Agree.  No question that losing Butler is a major development, but life will go on.  Personally, I think bringing in a bunch more teams at this point would be a mistake.  Ten is a good max number for us.  Oakland has done a great job of recruiting in recent years, despite the disadvantage of attracting recruits to play in the Summit.  They should recruit even better in the HL and thus would give us a better chance of meeting our goal of a higher conf RPI and multiple bids.  Between our league office and our various athletic offices, I am confident that we have plenty of smart people that will lead us through this.

[Valpo_Fred]

Losing Butler will also hurt the other teams in the HL in recruiting a bit. I remember reading an article called "The Butler effect" where it was interviewing some coaches from the HL. McCallum was saying his second sentence to a recruit after introducing himself was something along the lines of playing in the HL with Butler. This was after Butler went to back to back titles.

Like others have said, losing Butler will hurt, but it wont kill the HL. They'll be just fine. I think Butler will be fine in the A10 as well. Stevens is a great coach who now how more TV time, and can still get recruits. Would be nice to see Oakland in the HL.

[crusaderjoe]

One of the posters on WSU's board did some decent research into some teams from lower rated conferences that might want to mkae the jump up to the HL. 

Oakland
Current conference: Summit
RPI the last 5 years: 141, 53, 52, 122, 169
NCAA appearances: 05, 10, 11
Facilities: Athletics Center O'rena, seats: 4055, 2012 attendance: 3346
Budget: 10 million
Location: Detroit, MI

Robert Morris
Current conference: Northeast
RPI the last 5 years: 100, 100, 129, 109, 132
NCAA appearances: 82, 83, 89, 90, 92, 09, 10
Facilities: Sewall Center, seats: 3056, 2012 attendance: 1477
Budget: 13 million
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Drexel (if VCU and George Mason leave the CAA)
Current conference: CAA
RPI the last 5 years: 66, 74, 146, 133, 238
NCAA appearances: 86, 94, 95, 96
Facilities: Daskalakis Athletic Center, seats: 2300, 2012 attendance:2185
Budget: 16 million
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Murray State
Current conference: OVC
RPI the last 5 years: 22, 117, 57, 148, 189
NCAA appearances: 64, 69, 88, 90, 91, 95, 97, 98, 99, 02, 04, 06, 10, 12
Facilities:
Budget: 13 million
Location: Murray, KY

Morehead St
Current conference: OVC
RPI the last 5 years: 166, 77, 84, 141, 233
NCAA appearances: 56, 57, 61, 83, 84, 09, 11
Facilities: Johnson Arena, seats: 6500, 2012 attendance: 2241
Budget: 7.5 million
Location: Morehead, KY

Belmont
Current conference: Atlantic Sun
RPI the last 5 years: 58, 51, 135, 124, 76
NCAA appearances: 06, 07, 08, 11, 12
Facilities: Curb Event Center, seats: 5000, 2012 attendance: 2012
Budget: 8 million
Location: Nashville, TN

Northern Kentucky
Current conference: entering the Atlantic Sun in 2012/13
RPI the last 5 years: NA (D2)
NCAA appearances: NA (D2)
Facilities: Bank of Kentucky Center, seats: 9400, 2012 attendance: 1796
Budget: 5.8 million
Location: Highland Hts, KY

http://www.wrightstate.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2512

If the logic is to only go to 10, IMO, the actual glaring omission on that list is Western Kentucky. This school has a much better basketball history in general than anyone on that list and still opens up a footprint in the "south."   Plus, of the football schools mentioned above, it is the only school located in a conference whose current geographical footprint may expand to the point where moving all sports other than football to a more geographically compact conference actually makes economic sense.

[Valpo89]

Here's the official Horizon League response:
Statement from Horizon League Commissioner Jon LeCrone Concerning Butler University

INDIANAPOLIS -- A statement from Horizon League Commissioner Jon LeCrone regarding Butler University:

"This morning, I was informed by President James Danko of Butler's decision to withdraw from the Horizon League and affiliate with another conference. The Horizon League is among 25 NCAA Division I conferences whose membership has been impacted by realignment over the past two years.

"We are proud of the role the Horizon League played in providing a platform for Butler to significantly improve its athletics programs and achieve the highest level of national competitiveness in men's basketball.

"We are committed to sustaining those same opportunities for all League members. Under the leadership of our board of directors, we have an aggressive growth agenda which has been in the planning stages for some time. That agenda is values based, collaborative, measured, informed and principled.

"We are excited about the possibilities that lie ahead. The Horizon League will continue to be defined by our student-athletes as they compete, serve and learn. It is our student-athletes who encompass the best values of higher education and intercollegiate athletics."

[agibson]

So, the May 1 tip was about right, after all.

RIP Butler of the Horizon League.  Well, after one more season, and hopefully a couple of more losses to Valpo.

[vu72]

I understand their move is all about men's basketball, but nonetheless, I find it interesting that in revenue sports Butler is finishing a really bad year in the Horizon.
Here is where they finished or are currently placed:

Men's basketball   4th
Women's BB         5th
Men's soccer        8th
Women's soccer   6th
Baseball              5th
Softball               5th

In the meantime, in only our 5th year, Valpo does this:

Men's Basketball  1st
Women's BB        8th
Men's Soccer       1st
Women's soccer  3rd
Baseball             2nd
Softball              1st

Butler does have one heck of a Cross Country tradition though!   

[valpopal]

I wonder about the following in the commissioner's statement:

"Under the leadership of our board of directors, we have an aggressive growth agenda which has been in the planning stages for some time."

In my thinking, to live up to this comment about "an aggressive growth agenda," the Horizon League will need to be bold and not just invite one team to replace Butler on the schedule. That would be boring. This might be the right time to take some steps toward a more ambitious future for the league. Otherwise, I will be disappointed.

[Coogles]

I understand their move is all about men's basketball, but nonetheless, I find it interesting that in revenue sports Butler is finishing a really bad year in the Horizon.
Here is where they finished or are currently placed:

Men's basketball   4th
Women's BB         5th
Men's soccer        8th
Women's soccer   6th
Baseball              5th
Softball               5th

In the meantime, in only our 5th year, Valpo does this:

Men's Basketball  1st
Women's BB        8th
Men's Soccer       1st
Women's soccer  3rd
Baseball             2nd
Softball              1st

Butler does have one heck of a Cross Country tradition though!   

Whatever makes you happy, I guess.

Butler Claims Record-Setting Eighth McCafferty Trophy (06/01/2011)

INDIANAPOLIS – On the strength of six Horizon League postseason championships, Butler University has won the James J. McCafferty Trophy as the Horizon League's all-sports champion for the second straight year and the eighth time overall. For the Bulldogs, their eighth title snaps a tie with former League members Notre Dame and Oral Roberts.

The six titles allowed Butler to cruise to the 2010-11 title by an 8.5-point margin over runner-up Milwaukee. The Bulldogs started the year in historic fashion, winning regular season or tournament championships in all five fall sports, building what would prove to be an insurmountable lead.

The Bulldogs added to their points haul by winning the Horizon League Men's Basketball Championship before the women's golf team took home the League title and the softball team advanced to the League championship, building Butler's total of 59 points.

Milwaukee finished runner-up to Butler for the second consecutive season, finishing in the top three of the McCafferty standings for the 12th straight year. The Panthers started the 2010-11 season with the women's soccer title before sweeping both men's and women's indoor and outdoor track and adding the men's swimming title in the winter.

With a strong spring season, Cleveland State jumped to third in the standings; the Vikings collected Horizon League titles in men's tennis and men's golf.

Wright State claimed its lone League championship in the final sport of the year, sweeping through the baseball tournament to narrowly pass Green Bay for fourth place in the final standings. The Phoenix captured crowns in women's basketball and women's swimming.

Picking up titles in women's tennis and softball, UIC climbed to sixth in the final standings. City rival Loyola was immediately behind in seventh, while Youngstown State, Detroit and Valparaiso rounded out the standings, respectively.

Named in honor of James J. McCafferty, who served as the conference's first commissioner from 1979-80, the McCafferty Trophy is awarded annually by the Horizon League to a member institution compiling the greatest number of performance points, based on their finish in the League's 19 championship sports.  For the sports of men's and women's soccer, volleyball, men's and women's basketball, softball and baseball, points are awarded based on combined regular-season (60 percent) and championship (40 percent) finishes.  For all other sports, points are based on performance in the League championships.

McCafferty Trophy Standings
    School, Points (Titles)
1. Butler, 59 (6)
2. Milwaukee, 50.5 (6)
3. Cleveland State, 39.5 (2)
4. Wright State, 28.5 (1)
5. Green Bay, 28 (2)
6. UIC, 25.5 (2)
7. Loyola, 25 (0)
8. Youngstown State, 17 (0)
9. Detroit, 14 (0)
10. Valparaiso, 13 (0)

Men's Sports Totals
    School, Points (Titles)
1. Butler, 25 (3)
2. Milwaukee, 23 (3)
3. Cleveland State, 22.5 (2)
4. Wright State, 17.5 (1)
5. UIC, 15 (0)
6. Green Bay, 13 (0)
t-7. Loyola, 9 (0)
t-7. Youngstown State, 9 (0)
t-9. Detroit, 5 (0)
t-9. Valparaiso, 5 (0)

Women's Sports Totals
    School, Points (Titles)
1. Butler, 34 (3)
2. Milwaukee, 27.5 (3)
3. Cleveland State, 17 (0)
4. Loyola, 16 (0)
5. Green Bay, 15 (2)
6. Wright State, 11 (0)
7. UIC, 10.5 (1)
8. Detroit,  9 (0)
t-9. Valparaiso, 8 (0)
t-9. Youngstown State, 8 (0)

[agibson]

I find it interesting that in revenue sports Butler is finishing a really bad year in the Horizon.
Here is where they finished or are currently placed:

Men's basketball   4th
Women's BB         5th
Men's soccer        8th
Women's soccer   6th
Baseball              5th
Softball               5th

Isn't this stretching the definition of "revenue sport" rather far?

[vu72]

By revenue I mean that you have to pay to see these sports.  You don't have to pay to see a crosss country meet!

I suppose you could also classify them as the sports garnering the most fan interest.

[wh]

According to Andy Katz, done deal: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7879598/butler-bulldogs-join-atlantic-10-conference-all-sports-source-says

Butler's departure will crush the Horizon League. The Horizon League is left with lower-profile Midwestern schools in Cleveland State, Loyola (Ill.), Detroit, Illinois-Chicago, Green Bay, Milwaukee, Valparaiso, Wright State and Youngstown State.

Before I forget, the condescending, dismissive Andy Katz can bite me.

[valpotx]

The HL will be just fine in adding Oakland in all sports.  They are very competitive across all sports, so the only real drop-off will be out-of-conference solid wins, unless we pick up where Butler left off (very possible at least this year).  I also agree that to follow-up the growth comment, they appear to be looking at adding 3 schools.  In addition to IPFW and IUPUI, I don't think that SDSU or NDSU would help the conference.  Their ultimate goals will be in a FBS conference (WAC, MWC, etc) due to their strong football programs.  We want schools that won't view us as a stop-gap on the way to bigger things. 

[agibson]

so the only real drop-off will be out-of-conference solid wins, unless we pick up where Butler left off (very possible at least this year).

This would be fantastic, but really seem to be our bugaboo.  We seem to often have pretty good teams, that can do pretty well against similar competition.  But, we _very_ rarely beat top-25 teams.  Or top-50.  It'd feel really good to pick up one or two of these next season.