Butler to move to the A-10?

[wh]

I can tell you're hurt, gametime, as sometimes the truth does.  How about this?  Maybe there's some sort of 72-hr escape clause, or does that just apply to car loans and mortgages?  Just trying to help...

[BigDWSU]

As we did for NKU, you and I will have to agree to disagree about WKU.  What happened when WKU was an FCS program is irrelevant, IMO. I certainly understand what you are saying, but conference reshuffling is far more prevalent now than it was then.  If WKU wants to move up conference-wise and let football drive their bus, ok, no problem. But where are they going to go?  The WAC?  It's on its football deathbed.  C-USA?  Considering that they recently expanded by taking an absolute newbie in UTSA, there's no way WKU has a shot with them as everything stands right now.  The MWC?  If C-USA passed on them, so too will they. The MAC?  I guess...

Personally I would love to add Western Ky.  If the HL would have been able to add Valpo, Oakland, Western Ky, and Murray State instead of YSU years ago we would be one of the top non BCS basketball conferences out there and wouldn't be trying to find a replacement for Butler now.  I used to be a WSU board member.  Our former AD headed up the HL expansion committee.  I know who we have approached in the past.  We have approached Western Ky multiple times.  They have much higher ambitions than the HL.  They want to build a Memphis type athletic department and eventually get an invite to a BCS conference.  They are more than willing to stay where they are at and continue to build their resume until the right offer comes.  They will never consider coming to the HL, especially a HL without Butler.  We have a better chance of getting Xavier to leave the A-10 and come back to the HL.  In regards to KY, I agree I don't want to over saturate that area either.  1-2 schools would be more than enough. 

Realistically, I think the HL will add Oakland sometime this summer and announce that we are still evaluating programs for future expansion.  Adding Oakland stops the bleeding.  It will take care of our need to add a university with a baseball team and it gives us a solid basketball program that will keep the HL from dropping much in RPI.  That will also help us with future expansion.  We only want to go beyond 10 schools if it can potentially get the HL into a position to be a multi-bid conference for the NCAAs.   That is where the HL is going to make money and gain the ability to get  a better long term TV contract.  The MVC and A-10 get so many more games on TV than us because their teams are better known because of their NCAA success.  Personally I would be happy with 12 or 14 schools if they make sense.  I think 1-2 KY schools and 2 PA schools if they are strong programs make sense.  I like Belmont too. 

There is also rumors out there about the A-10 going after Creighton too.  If that really does happen, I could see the MVC coming after a few HL schools or some of those MVC schools having interest in coming to the HL.  If the A-10 is successful in raiding the MVC, HL, and CAA of our top programs, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of our conferences folding and the other 2 picking through the carcasses for the best teams.  Should be an interesting next few years. 

[zvillehaze]

Butler fans - you made your bed, now go die in it. 

I realize that I'm not immortal, but I hope I die on my timetable and not yours.

I understand your concern for what might happen to Butler, but I really think your life will be easier once they're gone.  You can get rid of all the things (tourney format, scheduling, etc.) that were put in place to prop Butler up and get back to a conference where the NCAA tourney representative is determined "fairly".  I think Butler's move will be a big positive for Valpo.

[vu72]

How about Robert Morris at a replacement.  Located in Pittsburgh, they play in the Northeast Conference I think.  5000 students and private with a pretty decent athletic program.  The location is very close to YSU so not really outside the "footprint".  Just a thought.

rmu.edu

[BigDWSU]

How about Robert Morris at a replacement.  Located in Pittsburgh, they play in the Northeast Conference I think.  5000 students and private with a pretty decent athletic program.  The location is very close to YSU so not really outside the "footprint".  Just a thought.

rmu.edu

They are one of the teams I mentioned several pages back in this thread.  Here is the post

Oakland
Current conference: Summit
RPI the last 5 years: 141, 53, 52, 122, 169
NCAA appearances: 05, 10, 11
Facilities: Athletics Center O'rena, seats: 4055, 2012 attendance: 3346
Budget: 10 million
Location: Detroit, MI

Robert Morris
Current conference: Northeast
RPI the last 5 years: 100, 100, 129, 109, 132
NCAA appearances: 82, 83, 89, 90, 92, 09, 10
Facilities: Sewall Center, seats: 3056, 2012 attendance: 1477
Budget: 13 million
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Drexel (if VCU and George Mason leave the CAA)
Current conference: CAA
RPI the last 5 years: 66, 74, 146, 133, 238
NCAA appearances: 86, 94, 95, 96
Facilities: Daskalakis Athletic Center, seats: 2300, 2012 attendance:2185
Budget: 16 million
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Murray State
Current conference: OVC
RPI the last 5 years: 22, 117, 57, 148, 189
NCAA appearances: 64, 69, 88, 90, 91, 95, 97, 98, 99, 02, 04, 06, 10, 12
Facilities:
Budget: 13 million
Location: Murray, KY

Morehead St
Current conference: OVC
RPI the last 5 years: 166, 77, 84, 141, 233
NCAA appearances: 56, 57, 61, 83, 84, 09, 11
Facilities: Johnson Arena, seats: 6500, 2012 attendance: 2241
Budget: 7.5 million
Location: Morehead, KY

Belmont
Current conference: Atlantic Sun
RPI the last 5 years: 58, 51, 135, 124, 76
NCAA appearances: 06, 07, 08, 11, 12
Facilities: Curb Event Center, seats: 5000, 2012 attendance: 2012
Budget: 8 million
Location: Nashville, TN

Northern Kentucky
Current conference: entering the Atlantic Sun in 2012/13
RPI the last 5 years: NA (D2)
NCAA appearances: NA (D2)
Facilities: Bank of Kentucky Center, seats: 9400, 2012 attendance: 1796
Budget: 5.8 million
Location: Highland Hts, KY

http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=726.165

Another PA school mentioned on the WSU board:

Bucknell
Current conference: Patriot league
RPI the last 5 years: 91, 79, 258, 295, 204
NCAA appearances: 87, 89, 05, 06, 11
Facilities: Sojka Pavilion, seats: 4,000, 2012 attendance: 3191
Budget: 17.5 million
Location: Lewisburg, PA

[wh]

Butler fans - you made your bed, now go die in it. 

I realize that I'm not immortal, but I hope I die on my timetable and not yours.

Whoops, I meant lie, not die.  I hope no one expires over this move. 

[dylanrocks]

Aside from Oakland, Murray State and Belmont are especially appealing.

Drop Youngstown State, and Morehead State would be a natural target.

Bungle this and the H League will be relegated to perpetual single-bid status.

[wh]

I see that the A-10 will be holding it's 2013 conference tournament in Brooklyn, NY, a leisurely 711 mile drive from Indy.  I understand they will also be offering special rates on hotel rooms - as low as $399/night. 

A couple of other tidbits:

- the A-10 is signed up for the next 5 years in Brooklyn
- "all session" tickets are the best bargain ($125-250 ea.)
- according to CNN Money an avg. meal in NYC is $38.  Avg at expensive restaurants $112 - the most expensive prices of any city in the country.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/22/pf/meals_averagecost/

[dylanrocks]

Meanwhile, it's 426 miles from Valparaiso to Murray, Ky. and 443 miles from Valparaiso to Nashville, Tenn.

[zvillehaze]

I see that the A-10 will be holding it's 2013 conference tournament in Brooklyn, NY, a leisurely 711 mile drive from Indy.  I understand they will also be offering special rates on hotel rooms - as low as $399/night. 

I'm in!  Unless, of course, I die in my bed before then.   

[wh]

I see that the A-10 will be holding it's 2013 conference tournament in Brooklyn, NY, a leisurely 711 mile drive from Indy.  I understand they will also be offering special rates on hotel rooms - as low as $399/night. 

I'm in!  Unless, of course, I die in my bed before then.   

YOU may be in, but I wouldn't worry about starting up a "roll call" thread on the Butler board if I were you. 

[milanmiracle]

I see that the A-10 will be holding it's 2013 conference tournament in Brooklyn, NY, a leisurely 711 mile drive from Indy.  I understand they will also be offering special rates on hotel rooms - as low as $399/night. 

A couple of other tidbits:

- the A-10 is signed up for the next 5 years in Brooklyn
- "all session" tickets are the best bargain ($125-250 ea.)
- according to CNN Money an avg. meal in NYC is $38.  Avg at expensive restaurants $112 - the most expensive prices of any city in the country.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/22/pf/meals_averagecost/

If you want to play with the big boys, it's gonna cost you. Its not like the donations to the university havent been pouring in. I know they have. This is a chance to improve their national recognition, and quite honestly if Valpo would have capitalized on the Bryce Drew years, Valpo might be in a better position than they are now. Its been almost a decade since Valpo made the NCAA's and been a player in the national spotlight.

I am sure this has been discussed somewhere else, but what would the leagues RPI have been without Butler? I for one am happy for Butler and wish them nothing but success in the A10.

[wh]

If you're happy for Butler, you must be thrilled for the A-10.  Like DW said, they're getting a lot more out of this than Butler is.

[BigDWSU]

I see that the A-10 will be holding it's 2013 conference tournament in Brooklyn, NY, a leisurely 711 mile drive from Indy.  I understand they will also be offering special rates on hotel rooms - as low as $399/night. 

A couple of other tidbits:

- the A-10 is signed up for the next 5 years in Brooklyn
- "all session" tickets are the best bargain ($125-250 ea.)
- according to CNN Money an avg. meal in NYC is $38.  Avg at expensive restaurants $112 - the most expensive prices of any city in the country.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/22/pf/meals_averagecost/

I'm sure Butler fans are going to be thrilled with the loss of the free HLN too.  The A-10 uses CBSsports.com to broadcast their games online.  They charge $10 a month or $80 a year for it.

[vu72]

All this worry about how to replace Butler had me thinking (always a danger).  Did anyone in the Horizon think that the league was in trouble/needed to add a team, before Valpo joined?  Sure, the 10th team made travel easier as well as scheduling.  But think about it, the Horizon is exactly where it was before Valpo except, Valpo has replaced Butler.

Now, I know that Butler has had more success than Valpo in basketball over the previous several years, but that is the past.  Valpo has beaten them in the last four games and does anybody REALLY think that Butler will be better than Valpo over the next two, three or four?  In other major sports Valpo has now emerged as a front runner/champion as well.

Valpo needs to take it to the next level with a nice NCAA tourney run this year and all will be forgotten. No worries...

[crusaderjoe]

As we did for NKU, you and I will have to agree to disagree about WKU.  What happened when WKU was an FCS program is irrelevant, IMO. I certainly understand what you are saying, but conference reshuffling is far more prevalent now than it was then.  If WKU wants to move up conference-wise and let football drive their bus, ok, no problem. But where are they going to go?  The WAC?  It's on its football deathbed.  C-USA?  Considering that they recently expanded by taking an absolute newbie in UTSA, there's no way WKU has a shot with them as everything stands right now.  The MWC?  If C-USA passed on them, so too will they. The MAC?  I guess...

Personally I would love to add Western Ky.  If the HL would have been able to add Valpo, Oakland, Western Ky, and Murray State instead of YSU years ago we would be one of the top non BCS basketball conferences out there and wouldn't be trying to find a replacement for Butler now.  I used to be a WSU board member.  Our former AD headed up the HL expansion committee.  I know who we have approached in the past.  We have approached Western Ky multiple times.  They have much higher ambitions than the HL.  They want to build a Memphis type athletic department and eventually get an invite to a BCS conference.  They are more than willing to stay where they are at and continue to build their resume until the right offer comes.  They will never consider coming to the HL, especially a HL without Butler.  We have a better chance of getting Xavier to leave the A-10 and come back to the HL.  In regards to KY, I agree I don't want to over saturate that area either.  1-2 schools would be more than enough. 

Realistically, I think the HL will add Oakland sometime this summer and announce that we are still evaluating programs for future expansion.  Adding Oakland stops the bleeding.  It will take care of our need to add a university with a baseball team and it gives us a solid basketball program that will keep the HL from dropping much in RPI.  That will also help us with future expansion.  We only want to go beyond 10 schools if it can potentially get the HL into a position to be a multi-bid conference for the NCAAs.   That is where the HL is going to make money and gain the ability to get  a better long term TV contract.  The MVC and A-10 get so many more games on TV than us because their teams are better known because of their NCAA success.  Personally I would be happy with 12 or 14 schools if they make sense.  I think 1-2 KY schools and 2 PA schools if they are strong programs make sense.  I like Belmont too. 

There is also rumors out there about the A-10 going after Creighton too.  If that really does happen, I could see the MVC coming after a few HL schools or some of those MVC schools having interest in coming to the HL.  If the A-10 is successful in raiding the MVC, HL, and CAA of our top programs, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of our conferences folding and the other 2 picking through the carcasses for the best teams.  Should be an interesting next few years.

Regarding WKU and the HL's past, you would know better than I would as a Board member and by following this conference longer so I will defer.  However, I read a couple of message boards this morning and it looks like the rumor is that NMSU will be going back to the Sun Belt again along with Appy St.  If this is true, I still think the HL should approach WKU one more time and see what happens.  The HL has nothing to lose, IMO.

On an unrelated note, the Big East commissioner resigned today.   Interesting move to say the least.

[zvillehaze]

Valpo has beaten them in the last four games and does anybody REALLY think that Butler will be better than Valpo over the next two, three or four? 

Ok ... I'll take the bait on this one and raise my hand.  Debating what "might" happen in the upcoming seasons is a pointless exercise, IMO, so I'm just setting a reminder to stop back over here in two, three and four years to see who was right.  Deal?   

[IndyValpo]

Ok ... I'll take the bait on this one and raise my hand.  Debating what "might" happen in the upcoming seasons is a pointless exercise, IMO, so I'm just setting a reminder to stop back over here in two, three and four years to see who was right.  Deal? 

I hope that in the future the debate can be settled on the court, but my guess, after beating Butler once or twice next year they will drop us off their schedule which will be unfortunate.

[valporun]

Ok ... I'll take the bait on this one and raise my hand.  Debating what "might" happen in the upcoming seasons is a pointless exercise, IMO, so I'm just setting a reminder to stop back over here in two, three and four years to see who was right.  Deal? 

I hope that in the future the debate can be settled on the court, but my guess, after beating Butler once or twice next year they will drop us off their schedule which will be unfortunate.

IndyValpo, Butler has basically already dropped Valpo from the schedule. It won't matter if Valpo beats Butler twice, the teams split, or Butler sweeps, after 2012-2013, we'll never see Butler on our schedule again.

[wh]

The most detailed article I have read yet about Oakland's desire to replace Butler:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7911693/oakland-wants-take-butler-place-horizon-league

[crusadermoe]

Have not been following the board for a long time and just saw Butler departure.     Has Bradley been mentioned as a possible new 10th?
Reasons....Bradley may want more Chicago games where students and alumni live.   And Wisconsin trip a good one for them too.  Going to Detroit and NE Ohio could be cheaper by plane  via Chicago.   
Horizon would get a private school replacement for Butler with some basketball history and identity.  Peoria actually not much further for Valpo to travel than Indy.       

[bbtds]

Peoria actually not much further for Valpo to travel than Indy.       

Indy actually much easier to drive to due to that big windy city they call Chicago. Having spent much time driving the triangle between Peoria/Valpo/Indy. Peoria to Indy is longest but probably easiest.

[wh]

I see that the A-10 will be holding it's 2013 conference tournament in Brooklyn, NY, a leisurely 711 mile drive from Indy.  I understand they will also be offering special rates on hotel rooms - as low as $399/night. 

A couple of other tidbits:

- the A-10 is signed up for the next 5 years in Brooklyn
- "all session" tickets are the best bargain ($125-250 ea.)
- according to CNN Money an avg. meal in NYC is $38.  Avg at expensive restaurants $112 - the most expensive prices of any city in the country.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/22/pf/meals_averagecost/

I'm sure Butler fans are going to be thrilled with the loss of the free HLN too.  The A-10 uses CBSsports.com to broadcast their games online.  They charge $10 a month or $80 a year for it.

I see that some Butler fans are just starting to figure out that they will only be playing home and home against 3 of 13 conference opponents.  That means that likely they will only play H&H against 1 of the other 3 teams on the "western front" (X, SL, D).  Those games have the potential for the biggest gates because the campuses are close enough to draw a lot of fans from the visiting schools.  This will be a major drag on attendance at Hinkle vs. what it could be if the conference was set up in divisions. 

[zvillehaze]

I see that some Butler fans are just starting to figure out that they will only be playing home and home against 3 of 13 conference opponents.  That means that likely they will only play H&H against 1 of the other 3 teams on the "western front" (X, SL, D).  Those games have the potential for the biggest gates because the campuses are close enough to draw a lot of fans from the visiting schools.  This will be a major drag on attendance at Hinkle vs. what it could be if the conference was set up in divisions. 

I'm confused.  Under the current scheduling system, Butler's 16 A-10 games will be home and home with Xavier, SLU and Dayton (six games; 3 home and 3 road) and a single game against the other 10 teams (5 home and 5 road).  Are you claiming that's not the case? 

[wh]

Maybe I'm the one confused (wouldn't be the first time).  I quickly looked at X's sched for past 4 years and the only opponent I saw consistently scheduled twice/yr was Dayton.  Has the arrangement been changed with the addition of B?