New rumor: Butler leaving NOW

[Nildogg]

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this....

Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault?  (other than leaving the conference in the first place).

And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs!
The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence!

You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...

[milanmiracle]

I thought Valpo left the Summit League...oh wait...

Chasing Butler out early was dumb, just plain dumb. It would have been another year for the Horizon League to show they weren't just Butler and the also rans. Now everybody will say how much tougher the A10 is than the HL if Butler finishes mid pack.

Best of luck to Butler, they made the right move to join the A10

[bbtds]

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this....

Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault?  (other than leaving the conference in the first place).

And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs!
The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence!

You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...

It's just so easy to see the arrogance that pervades Butler thinking and LeCrone finally after all these years had enough of it. Good riddance, Nildogg. We won't miss you!!!! Also let's make a bet when WNDY lets their TV contract to televise Butler games run out.  2013-14 is my guess. Good luck wondering how your basketball team looks playing on the east coast and paying those $80 A-10 video fees.

[crusaderguy08]

HL presidents made the decision to deal Butler out:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/19194890

Why would you do such a thing, let them compete but not be championship eligible?  This seems just really petty to me and the HL looks like the one being the big cry baby.  I agree with valpopal that it appears the HL is unprepared for the early departure and should have let well enough alone, if Butler had a championship worthy team then let them have their championship.  This is suppose to be about student athletes not a bunch of baloney politics.

You don't really believe this do you?  Have you been living under a rock for the past decade?  It's all about the $$$ and politics.

[Nildogg]

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this.... Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault?  (other than leaving the conference in the first place). And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs! The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence! You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...

It's just so easy to see the arrogance that pervades Butler thinking and LeCrone finally after all these years had enough of it. Good riddance, Nildogg. We won't miss you!!!! Also let's make a bet when WNDY lets their TV contract to televise Butler games run out.  2013-14 is my guess. Good luck wondering how your basketball team looks playing on the east coast and paying those $80 A-10 video fees.

Oh, wah!   You can thank Butler for anything good that this conference has right now... including whatever it was that you've spent our tournament earnings on.  You are welcome.  Good luck with your high teen's seeds, and lack of interest in the HL anymore. Enjoy being the team that once hit a lucky shot...  Yes, Good Riddance

[FWalum]

Why would you do such a thing, let them compete but not be championship eligible?  This seems just really petty to me and the HL looks like the one being the big cry baby.  I agree with valpopal that it appears the HL is unprepared for the early departure and should have let well enough alone, if Butler had a championship worthy team then let them have their championship.  This is suppose to be about student athletes not a bunch of baloney politics.



You don't really believe this do you?  Have you been living under a rock for the past decade?  It's all about the $$$ and politics.

Did you notice I used the words suppose to be? Believe me I know that this is all about $$$ and politics and it sucks.

[milanmiracle]

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this....

Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault?  (other than leaving the conference in the first place).

And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs!
The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence!

You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...

It's just so easy to see the arrogance that pervades Butler thinking and LeCrone finally after all these years had enough of it. Good riddance, Nildogg. We won't miss you!!!! Also let's make a bet when WNDY lets their TV contract to televise Butler games run out.  2013-14 is my guess. Good luck wondering how your basketball team looks playing on the east coast and paying those $80 A-10 video fees.

I'll take that WNDY bet if your offering it to outsiders. Really, you think they're going to drop the contract because they're playing better teams with more name recognition?

[valpotx]

I was going to wish nildogg well until that last response lol.  I don't blame Butler one bit for leaving the conference, or leaving early when championship restrictions were placed on them.  As a past student athlete, it would have sucked if we were not allowed to compete for the championship throughout the season.  Though we really had no chance at one anyways with ORU in our conference for baseball, it still gives you something to shoot for! 

It is kind of petty for the HL to treat a long-time member as such.  We are obviously in the pole position to take over as the premier basketball program in the HL, and the fact that HL fans are mentioning us in this way says how much we have improved over the 5 HL seasons.  I remember how much Butler fans detested us joining the conference, but now that we beat them 4 times in a row, there is at least a tiny bit of respect to that hate .

I do hope we add 3 teams that can be competitive.  Maybe LeCrone will surprise us and steal some decent teams away, Oakland and 2 others.  All 3 should have baseball programs as well, so we can get back to 8 (selfish request). 

Edit:  Anyone else notice that they already took Butler off of the HL website?  I guess school is out so this school year is completed?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

BUTLER...is OUT, FOR the SUMMER!
(dun-dun-dun-DUN, dun-dun-dun-DUN, dun-dun-dun-DUN-DUN-DUN)
BUTler...is OUT, FOR EVAH!
(dun-dun-dun-DUN, dun-dun-dun-DUN, dun-dun-dun-DUN-DUN-DUN)


I'm all for it, as much fun as it would have been to pound them three more times.  I just think they should have waited until the school year started to go Corleone on them.

[IrishDawg]

Good opportunity for the remaining HL teams to be the next Butler, as Butler took over for Xavier when they left.  However, it's going to have to start in November and December.  Valpo and Detroit are the two most likely teams to actually pull off some kind of upset that will garner the conference some recognition, and then whoever does get the league's bid is actually going to have to win a game or two consistently in the tournament.

I don't blame either side for this.  HL presidents didn't want Butler getting more publicity in place of other teams that were staying, especially since they would already be doing some additional draining of the funds that they've earned in the tourney the past few years.  Butler doesn't want to get held out of the NCAAs for basketball, but especially their other sports who wouldn't have an opportunity to do us otherwise.

It'll be interesting to see how this ends up on both sides long-term.  Butler's TV deal with My-Indy 23 isn't going away.  If anything they'll get even more coverage in the local market because they'll play teams that more people know.  Attendance will likely go up, even if ticket prices continue to for that same reason.  Other than getting to keep the NCAA tourney money, which is significant, the HL is losing big-time in the short term.  Like I said though, it will be interesting to track this story a few years down the road.

Good luck to you all this year.

[valpopal]

Edit:  Anyone else notice that they already took Butler off of the HL website?  I guess school is out so this school year is completed?

Yes, I noticed the change that removed Butler from the website roster of teams. However, there is still no official announcement by the HL of its position on the latest situation accompanied by a clear and positive statement about moving forward. Anyone who knows anything about public relations will tell you that the extended silence on the part of the HL serves even more as a negative the longer it continues. In fact, the quiet removal of Butler from the website without a concurrent publicity release on behalf of the HL gives an impression of stealth and a lack of openness that only hurts the image of the HL, perhaps suggesting the league administrators do not have their act together.

[bbtds]

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this....

Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault?  (other than leaving the conference in the first place).

And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs!
The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence!

You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...

It's just so easy to see the arrogance that pervades Butler thinking and LeCrone finally after all these years had enough of it. Good riddance, Nildogg. We won't miss you!!!! Also let's make a bet when WNDY lets their TV contract to televise Butler games run out.  2013-14 is my guess. Good luck wondering how your basketball team looks playing on the east coast and paying those $80 A-10 video fees.

I'll take that WNDY bet if your offering it to outsiders. Really, you think they're going to drop the contract because they're playing better teams with more name recognition?

WNDY went many years without Butler, even when Butler made the NCAA tourney just about every year. If Butler starts placing middle of the pack in the A-10 and the ratings start dropping off things will change fast. Also the cost of televising games from Philadelphia, West Mass, New York City, Richmond, etc. will make the Big Bang Theory, 30 Rock & Monk re-runs and Family Fued look a whole lot better ratings wise. None of those Purdue and IU fans with be loyal to Butler. I lived in Indy during those days and I remember what they were like. You think the cash strapped Indy Star will keep David Woods covering Butler when they are mediocre in the A-10. It won't happen.  There is a good reason it is a year by year contract. That glory will fade just as quickly as it started. People are very fickle.

When Anthony Calhoun WISH/WNDY sports director ended the "Butler leaving for the A-10 early" segment on channel 8's newscast he ended saying more cautiously than excitingly that "Yah, we look forward to covering those Butler basketball games on our sister station my Indy 23 coming up this year." That statement coming from a guy who could get excited about almost anything Butler in the past. Anthony Calhoun knows Butler basketball took a hit and it must recover quickly in a tougher conference or things are going downhill quickly. He certainly didn't sound nearly as excited as when he stood on the stage at Hinkle with LeCrone, Collier, Fong and Governor Daniels (by video) and said "back to back Final Fours."

[wh]

The decision to force Butler's hand needs to be put in context with what Commissioner LeCrone stated only 2 weeks ago in regard to the future direction of the league (below).  This has nothing to do with vindictiveness, or losing sight of what's important, or anything of the sort.  Our league office and university presidents obviously have a plan in mind and removing Butler from the equation sooner rather than later was seen as necessary to enact that plan.  Give these people at least a little credit for heaven's sakes.



Perspectives: The New World
perspectives  Jon LeCrone · May 14, 2012
The recent announcement by one of our founding members to affiliate with another athletic conference is proof positive that we are indeed living in the new athletics world.

Our new environment is driven by BCS football and long-term media rights that have provided the impetus for grand scale conference realignment.  In the past two years only six Division I conferences have not been impacted by realignment.

As the new world continues to evolve, I will be working with our board on the following:

1) Continuation of our growth agenda.  Specifically, we want to continue to develop "built for at large" basketball programs.  Successful NCAA Division I basketball provides financial and competitive sustainability for our athletics programs.

2) Membership expansion – we will consider a thoughtful expansion plan to support our growth agenda.

3) Collaboration – we will work collaboratively, internally and externally, to explore how working better together, we can prosper in the new world.

4) Reform – I will continue to work with the Board to insure that our voice, and the voices of like-minded schools/conferences, are heard on the topics of national athletics reform.

We will continue to be guided by our values of competition, learning, service and accountability.  Providing a collegiate model, added value athletics experience for all 1400 Horizon League student-athletes is our goal.

[milanmiracle]

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this....

Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault?  (other than leaving the conference in the first place).

And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs!
The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence!

You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...

It's just so easy to see the arrogance that pervades Butler thinking and LeCrone finally after all these years had enough of it. Good riddance, Nildogg. We won't miss you!!!! Also let's make a bet when WNDY lets their TV contract to televise Butler games run out.  2013-14 is my guess. Good luck wondering how your basketball team looks playing on the east coast and paying those $80 A-10 video fees.

I'll take that WNDY bet if your offering it to outsiders. Really, you think they're going to drop the contract because they're playing better teams with more name recognition?

WNDY went many years without Butler, even when Butler made the NCAA tourney just about every year. If Butler starts placing middle of the pack in the A-10 and the ratings start dropping off things will change fast. Also the cost of televising games from Philadelphia, West Mass, New York City, Richmond, etc. will make the Big Bang Theory, 30 Rock & Monk re-runs and Family Fued look a whole lot better ratings wise. None of those Purdue and IU fans with be loyal to Butler. I lived in Indy during those days and I remember what they were like. You think the cash strapped Indy Star will keep David Woods covering Butler when they are mediocre in the A-10. It won't happen.  There is a good reason it is a year by year contract. That glory will fade just as quickly as it started. People are very fickle.

When Anthony Calhoun WISH/WNDY sports director ended the "Butler leaving for the A-10 early" segment on channel 8's newscast he ended saying more cautiously than excitingly that "Yah, we look forward to covering those Butler basketball games on our sister station my Indy 23 coming up this year." That statement coming from a guy who could get excited about almost anything Butler in the past. Anthony Calhoun knows Butler basketball took a hit and it must recover quickly in a tougher conference or things are going downhill quickly. He certainly didn't sound nearly as excited as when he stood on the stage at Hinkle with LeCrone, Collier, Fong and Governor Daniels (by video) and said "back to back Final Fours."

I agree with some of what you're saying, but those Final 4's changed alot of things around Indy. I am down here now and was before the Final 4 run too. If Butler finishes in the bottom half of the A10 every year, then I am sure WNDY will re-evaluate and kill the contract. However, if they are making the NCAA's on a regular basis or right in the hunt, that contract is going to keep getting renewed. It's amazing to see how things have changed in Indy with Butler, as you can't go anywhere without seeing a Butler t-shrit, hat or sweatshirt. Really, I am not exagerating. I would even go so far as to say there is more Butler apparel than Purdue in the Indianapolis area. IU is making a strong comeback and many of the bandwagon Butler fans will jump ship back to IU this upcoming season but I think Butler's here to stay.

Long term, I see Butler turning into DePaul. Not the DePaul we know now that finishes in the bottom of the Big East, but the DePaul of Ray Meyer/Joey Meyer fame. (Joey wasn't Bryce, but he's better than anything they've had since...whoops).

Butler absolutely has the potential to be a St. John's, Villanova, DePaul, or Marquette if they really want to. Much of it will depend on retaining Stevens, but if they want to push it, this could just be another stepping stone to big time college basketball. They have a knowledgeable fan base, a historic arena, and a great coach. Add in a major city in Indianapolis and the formula for long term success is right there. Plus Stevens could pluck his whole team from Indianapolis if he wanted (and could land them all).

In the end Butler made the right move to go to the A10, and while it sucks for the rest of the Horizon League right now, I suspect some of these other schools were given the option of joining the MVC or A10, most would jump at the chance!

[sliman]

Lots of interesting comments on Butler's exit from the HL and I'll agree with those that say (1) Butler brought national recognition to the HL and its member schools; (2) Butler is a fine academic institution and association with it will be missed if we can't play in non-conference games; (3) if Butler feels they are putting themselves in a better situation in the A10, they should go for it; wouldn't we all want our schools to do that?; (4) the HL has handled the divorce poorly.  While it may be true that the HL was not going to let Butler be eligible for league championships, do we know this for certain (CBS's end-of-story comment notwithstanding)?  It's also interesting to see that VCU apparently decided to move a year earlier than originally planned. 

[StlVUFan]

Lots of interesting comments on Butler's exit from the HL and I'll agree with those that say (1) Butler brought national recognition to the HL and its member schools; (2) Butler is a fine academic institution and association with it will be missed if we can't play in non-conference games; (3) if Butler feels they are putting themselves in a better situation in the A10, they should go for it; wouldn't we all want our schools to do that?; (4) the HL has handled the divorce poorly.  While it may be true that the HL was not going to let Butler be eligible for league championships, do we know this for certain (CBS's end-of-story comment notwithstanding)?  It's also interesting to see that VCU apparently decided to move a year earlier than originally planned. 

That may be where this speculation came from.  If I recall correctly, the CAA openly (as in let the world know) banned VCU from the conference tourney -- I was under the impression that it was a conference rule that everyone knew about.

[vu72]

Lots of interesting comments on Butler's exit from the HL and I'll agree with those that say (1) Butler brought national recognition to the HL and its member schools; (2) Butler is a fine academic institution and association with it will be missed if we can't play in non-conference games; (3) if Butler feels they are putting themselves in a better situation in the A10, they should go for it; wouldn't we all want our schools to do that?; (4) the HL has handled the divorce poorly.  While it may be true that the HL was not going to let Butler be eligible for league championships, do we know this for certain (CBS's end-of-story comment notwithstanding)?  It's also interesting to see that VCU apparently decided to move a year earlier than originally planned. 

VCU left because of the exact same situation.  They would have been ineligible for the automatic bid.  The Horizon League simply made the same decision.

As for all this talk about the Horizon becoming a low major without Butler, that is baloney.  The Horizon was ranked 12th last year out of 32.  Butler finished fourth in our League. Everyone seems to think that because Butler had two incredible years that they will continue to do so.  There were a couple of guys who made those runs happen.  Matt Howard and Gordon Hayward.  They were a pretty good team last year.  One new stud isn't going to make anyone else into Matt Howard or Gordon Hayward.  They will be OK again this year.  They won't get an at-large bid and they won't win the auto bid.  Just my opinion.

As for Nildoggs rants about us getting a low seeding, we'll just have to wait and see.  It will be very hard to seed a top 25 team 12-15.  We need to bring it and all will be fine.

[78crusader]

Um, just my opinion here, but I think we should cool our jets with this Top 25 stuff.  Let's beat a couple BCS conference teams -- which we haven't done for quite a while now -- first.  Paul

[okinawatyphoon]

Um, just my opinion here, but I think we should cool our jets with this Top 25 stuff.  Let's beat a couple BCS conference teams -- which we haven't done for quite a while now -- first.  Paul

Exactly. We have to start beating ranked opponents, or other BCS schools for that matter, to even be considered to get votes for the top 25. We aren't that close in my opinion.

[MattCarter]

Um, just my opinion here, but I think we should cool our jets with this Top 25 stuff.  Let's beat a couple BCS conference teams -- which we haven't done for quite a while now -- first.  Paul

Exactly. We have to start beating ranked opponents, or other BCS schools for that matter, to even be considered to get votes for the top 25. We aren't that close in my opinion.

Question.  Does Butler leaving and the proposed plan by HL for coming year mean that Valpo (and other HL teams) will have 2 slots for extra non conference games?  To me, that is kinda exciting.  Also opens up chance for a inter conference thing like Big Ten-ACC

[valpotx]

This is definitely weird that the HL still hasn't put out any information.  I really hope that means they have already made a decision on replacement(s).  If we weren't replacing Butler as of yet, you would think that they would have just put out a statement on the 'mutual' decision to cut ties now.

[crusaderjoe]

Edit:  Anyone else notice that they already took Butler off of the HL website?  I guess school is out so this school year is completed?

Yes, I noticed the change that removed Butler from the website roster of teams. However, there is still no official announcement by the HL of its position on the latest situation accompanied by a clear and positive statement about moving forward. Anyone who knows anything about public relations will tell you that the extended silence on the part of the HL serves even more as a negative the longer it continues. In fact, the quiet removal of Butler from the website without a concurrent publicity release on behalf of the HL gives an impression of stealth and a lack of openness that only hurts the image of the HL, perhaps suggesting the league administrators do not have their act together.

You might be on to something and I am starting to agree with you.  7:00 EST and still no word from HL offices on the immediate departure of Butler University, a 33 year, founding member of the conference. 

The CAA still has VCU's logo up on their athletic website, FWIW.

[milanmiracle]

Um, just my opinion here, but I think we should cool our jets with this Top 25 stuff.  Let's beat a couple BCS conference teams -- which we haven't done for quite a while now -- first.  Paul

Exactly. We have to start beating ranked opponents, or other BCS schools for that matter, to even be considered to get votes for the top 25. We aren't that close in my opinion.

Valpo needs to walk before it runs. Top 25? Like others said beat a BCS school first

[vu72]

The additions to this team--less the subtractions, will be better than anyone thinks.  I'll rest my case.

[covufan]

I like having VU in the Horizon League.  I would like the HL with 10 teams and Butler, a natural in-state rival for VU.  I'm not sure Butler will be able to succeed in the A-10 the way they have the last several years in the HL.  Butler will need an exceptional year to get into the top 40 in RPI.  Not sure they will be going to the NCAA tournament much in the next 5-7 years.  Good luck to Barry and the Butler way.