New rumor: Butler leaving NOW

[zvillehaze]

As for all this talk about the Horizon becoming a low major without Butler, that is baloney.  The Horizon was ranked 12th last year out of 32.  Butler finished fourth in our League. Everyone seems to think that because Butler had two incredible years that they will continue to do so.  There were a couple of guys who made those runs happen.  Matt Howard and Gordon Hayward.  They were a pretty good team last year.  One new stud isn't going to make anyone else into Matt Howard or Gordon Hayward.  They will be OK again this year.  They won't get an at-large bid and they won't win the auto bid.  Just my opinion.

As for Nildoggs rants about us getting a low seeding, we'll just have to wait and see.  It will be very hard to seed a top 25 team 12-15.  We need to bring it and all will be fine.

First of all, I think both sides (the Horizon and Butler) did what they felt they needed to do.  It would have been a very awkward year in a lot of ways (much like stating you want a divorce, but will be staying in the house for the next year).  I'd encourage everyone to move forward and make the best of it.

I'm making no judgements about what the Horizon will or won't be ... Butler's departure leaves some holes (at least in terms of national recognition) but also provides a lot of opportunities.  I like the league and hope that it continues to thrive. 

Good luck to Valpo ... hope you reach that top 25 ranking that vu72 is predicting.  That would be a great accomplishment for Valpo and great to see a team in the Horizon step forward with some non-conference and post-season success.  I've gone back and forth with vu72 over the years and have learned to appreciate his love for Valpo.  I don't always appreciate his lack of respect for Butler, but to each their own.  I made the choice to come over here, so I'll take whatever is dished out.  On a positive note, you guys will likely hang onto that 4 game win streak for quite a while! 

As stated in another thread, I don't necessarily buy all of vu72's predictions, but certainly hope he's right about Valpo (and wrong about Butler).  In any case, I'll be back later when we can debate actual results.  Good luck.

[bbtds]

One thing to keep in mind is that until Butler leaves the PFL Valpo will be playing them once a year in football. It should become the goal of the football team every year if Valpo can't win the PFL title then they should at least beat Butler every year. Sound good?

[wh]

Z-ville-  When we left the Mid Con I recall many fans from other MC boards coming over and expressing their well wishes, telling us how they will miss us, etc.  To date I haven't seen even one such well wish message on the Butler board.  Given everything Butler has done for the league, how you single-handedly put the HL on the map, made us all lots of money, etc., how would you explain such deafening silence?

[vu72]

As for all this talk about the Horizon becoming a low major without Butler, that is baloney.  The Horizon was ranked 12th last year out of 32.  Butler finished fourth in our League. Everyone seems to think that because Butler had two incredible years that they will continue to do so.  There were a couple of guys who made those runs happen.  Matt Howard and Gordon Hayward.  They were a pretty good team last year.  One new stud isn't going to make anyone else into Matt Howard or Gordon Hayward.  They will be OK again this year.  They won't get an at-large bid and they won't win the auto bid.  Just my opinion.

As for Nildoggs rants about us getting a low seeding, we'll just have to wait and see.  It will be very hard to seed a top 25 team 12-15.  We need to bring it and all will be fine.

First of all, I think both sides (the Horizon and Butler) did what they felt they needed to do.  It would have been a very awkward year in a lot of ways (much like stating you want a divorce, but will be staying in the house for the next year).  I'd encourage everyone to move forward and make the best of it.

I'm making no judgements about what the Horizon will or won't be ... Butler's departure leaves some holes (at least in terms of national recognition) but also provides a lot of opportunities.  I like the league and hope that it continues to thrive. 

Good luck to Valpo ... hope you reach that top 25 ranking that vu72 is predicting.  That would be a great accomplishment for Valpo and great to see a team in the Horizon step forward with some non-conference and post-season success.  I've gone back and forth with vu72 over the years and have learned to appreciate his love for Valpo.  I don't always appreciate his lack of respect for Butler, but to each their own.  I made the choice to come over here, so I'll take whatever is dished out.  On a positive note, you guys will likely hang onto that 4 game win streak for quite a while! 

As stated in another thread, I don't necessarily buy all of vu72's predictions, but certainly hope he's right about Valpo (and wrong about Butler).  In any case, I'll be back later when we can debate actual results.  Good luck.

You're a class guy 'haze and have always enjoyed your reasoned approach.  I suppose I do get a little carried away at times.     Part of my feelings for Butler relate to my age.  As a student we had a very deep rivalry with Butler, both being in the ICC at the time.  The current fans for the most part have only seen it for the last five and the attraction to the games had more to do with Butler's national recognition as opposed to viewing it from a rivalry standpoint.

Butler is a great school and I hope Valpo can take the lead in keeping the spotlight on the Horizon now that you have departed. Good Luck to you and the Bulldogs and please stop by from time to time to check in...

[zvillehaze]

Z-ville-  When we left the Mid Con I recall many fans from other MC boards coming over and expressing their well wishes, telling us how they will miss us, etc.  To date I haven't seen even one such well wish message on the Butler board.  Given everything Butler has done for the league, how you single-handedly put the HL on the map, made us all lots of money, etc., how would you explain such deafening silence?

I don't think I said any of that stuff about Butler, although I won't deny that Butler did make a few $ for HL schools.  I don't have an answer to your question, but I assume you're indicating that the Mid Con had classier fans than the Horizon League does?    

I think you know the real answer ... most fans around the league don't like Butler and are glad to see them go.  I guess I can understand that, although I hope that hatred is based upon things done/said by fans and not based upon anything done by our athletes representing the school.  You've always been open with your dislike of Butler, so you're probably in a better position to explain than I am.  I never understood why someone would hate me or hate one of my kids just because they represent a certain college playing a game, so I try to never carry that attitude toward another school/team/individual.

But as I stated earlier, this is a divorce, and no matter what anyone claims it's very hard to get through one without harsh words or hurt feelings.  That I do understand.

[valpotx]

Another day goes by without any official announcement of Butler leaving on the HL website.  I sincerely hope we are just waiting on confirmation of new schools joining, otherwise you really have to question the HL leadership...

[wh]

Z-ville-  When we left the Mid Con I recall many fans from other MC boards coming over and expressing their well wishes, telling us how they will miss us, etc.  To date I haven't seen even one such well wish message on the Butler board.  Given everything Butler has done for the league, how you single-handedly put the HL on the map, made us all lots of money, etc., how would you explain such deafening silence?

I don't think I said any of that stuff about Butler, although I won't deny that Butler did make a few $ for HL schools.  I don't have an answer to your question, but I assume you're indicating that the Mid Con had classier fans than the Horizon League does?    

I think you know the real answer ... most fans around the league don't like Butler and are glad to see them go.  I guess I can understand that, although I hope that hatred is based upon things done/said by fans and not based upon anything done by our athletes representing the school.  You've always been open with your dislike of Butler, so you're probably in a better position to explain than I am.  I never understood why someone would hate me or hate one of my kids just because they represent a certain college playing a game, so I try to never carry that attitude toward another school/team/individual.

But as I stated earlier, this is a divorce, and no matter what anyone claims it's very hard to get through one without harsh words or hurt feelings.  That I do understand.

To be clear the strong league-wide dislike for Butler has nothing to do with you personally.  That said, it has everything to do with the Butler fans message board.  Think of it this way.  If the 10 HL message boards were the 4077 M.A.S.H., the Butler board would be Maj. Charles Emerson Winchester III - haughty, arrogant, condescending, and dismissive toward everyone else in camp.  He regularly makes it known that he is too good to be where he is.  He gives no one else any credit or recognition.  Finally the day comes when he leaves and despite all the things he accomplished and all the lives he saved, not one person extends a hand or sheds a tear as he fades into the sunset.

[zvillehaze]

Z-ville-  When we left the Mid Con I recall many fans from other MC boards coming over and expressing their well wishes, telling us how they will miss us, etc.  To date I haven't seen even one such well wish message on the Butler board.  Given everything Butler has done for the league, how you single-handedly put the HL on the map, made us all lots of money, etc., how would you explain such deafening silence?

I don't think I said any of that stuff about Butler, although I won't deny that Butler did make a few $ for HL schools.  I don't have an answer to your question, but I assume you're indicating that the Mid Con had classier fans than the Horizon League does?    

I think you know the real answer ... most fans around the league don't like Butler and are glad to see them go.  I guess I can understand that, although I hope that hatred is based upon things done/said by fans and not based upon anything done by our athletes representing the school.  You've always been open with your dislike of Butler, so you're probably in a better position to explain than I am.  I never understood why someone would hate me or hate one of my kids just because they represent a certain college playing a game, so I try to never carry that attitude toward another school/team/individual.

But as I stated earlier, this is a divorce, and no matter what anyone claims it's very hard to get through one without harsh words or hurt feelings.  That I do understand.

To be clear the strong league-wide dislike for Butler has nothing to do with you personally.  That said, it has everything to do with the Butler fans message board.  Think of it this way.  If the 10 HL message boards were the 4077 M.A.S.H., the Butler board would be Maj. Charles Emerson Winchester III - haughty, arrogant, condescending, and dismissive toward everyone else in camp.  He regularly makes it known that he is too good to be where he is.  He gives no one else any credit or recognition.  Finally the day comes when he leaves and despite all the things he accomplished and all the lives he saved, not one person extends a hand or sheds a tear as he fades into the sunset.

I guess that's fair.  FWIW, I don't like many of the posters on that board either.  As a rule, the anonymity of message boards brings out the worst in people. 

At the end of the day, Butler seems happy and the A-10 seems happy to have them.  You (and apparently the other 8 HL teams) are happy Butler is leaving.  Sounds like a win-win situation that is best for all.  It also says a lot about why this needed to happen and why it unfolded the way it did.   I guess we'll see if it works out like everyone hopes.

[KL31NY]

I'm a little late to join this thread, but I just had a thought in my head, and I apologize if it's already been covered, but...

Anyone know or care if the soccer teams will still play Butler? WSO and MSO released their schedules before the A-10 announcement, and Butler is still on each of their schedules online, and both still listed as conference opponents.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if we already made some decision towards this and haven't changed the schedules yet. Aaron and Ryan have of course been busy w/ double championships in their main spring sports...

[valpotx]

The only program that will probably never play Butler again is men's basketball.  All other sports have traditionally played against them either every year, or every other year.

[staxawax]

Truly disappointing to read most of this thread.  ALL boards have knuckleheads, including Butler and Valpo.   I like the Crusader's program and I hope Butler keeps up the series.  Valpo, you had better sweep the season and league tournament next year....... as you are pretty much guaranteeing it now.

As for rankings, it is Butler that has top 25 rankings already in many polls, so I guess someone out there sees something you guys don't want to see. 

As for the MyIndy TV coverage,  90% of those games were HOME games...... very rarely did AC and company do a road game, so let's get the facts straight. 

Stay classy Valparaiso!

[wh]

Butler scrambles to make early jump:

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/02/3638255/butler-scrambles-to-make-early.html

[vu72]

Butler scrambles to make early jump:

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/02/3638255/butler-scrambles-to-make-early.html

I thought it was interesting that Clarke thinks getting to the NCAAs will be EASIER in the A10 versus the Horizon.  I suppose it does make sense if the Horizon is only going to be an auto-bid league.  Everyone knows Valpo will get that so Butler would have to settle for the CIT or something once again.

[vuweathernerd]

i find it interesting that the a-10 doesn't allow its members to schedule non-d1 opponents. i like this idea personally. what are the odds the horizon will follow suit?

the article also says that the conference presidents only WANTED to cut their eligibility for conference tourney championships, not that it had actually taken place, which was the vibe i had gotten over the course of this thread. but i guess we'll never know, seeing as it seems both sides essentially agreed to a gag order.

the article also says that it's unlikely that the conference would add a 10th team this summer. so why's the office not made any sort of announcement yet? what could possibly be going on in indianapolis?

[zvillehaze]

I thought it was interesting that Clarke thinks getting to the NCAAs will be EASIER in the A10 versus the Horizon.  I suppose it does make sense if the Horizon is only going to be an auto-bid league.  Everyone knows Valpo will get that so Butler would have to settle for the CIT or something once again.

I love when vu72 calls his shot!  Lots of fans claim to support their teams, but he really backs it up!  Just for the record, here are his predictions so far for the '12-'13 Valpo season, along the predictions I'd still like to hear:

1.  Top 25 ranking.
2.  Horizon league auto-bid to NCAA tournament.
3.  NCAA tourney seeding? (need a prediction here).
4.  NCAA tourney wins? (need a prediction here).

I realize this is probably a stupid bet, but I'll propose it to vu72 just to keep things interesting.  I've got a crisp $20 bill that says Butler wins a game in the NCAA tournament before Valpo does.  Given that Valpo is by far the better team/program, I should ask for 2 to 1 odds or something, but in the spirit of friendship and sportsmanship, I'll bet straight up.  Deal?   

[Nildogg]

Butler scrambles to make early jump: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/02/3638255/butler-scrambles-to-make-early.html

I thought it was interesting that Clarke thinks getting to the NCAAs will be EASIER in the A10 versus the Horizon.  I suppose it does make sense if the Horizon is only going to be an auto-bid league.  Everyone knows Valpo will get that so Butler would have to settle for the CIT or something once again.

Come on 72...  where did he say "Easier"?  You know what he means by his comment:

"Like I said, the Horizon League deserves credit because it's a lot better league than people think," Clarke said. "But I think the Atlantic 10 will give us a better chance to get there (NCAA tourney), and it will give us more exposure, too."

[vu72]

Wow! Things must be slow on the Butler board--they are coming after me pretty hard  .  OK Haze, I'll take the bet.  $20 buck on who wins an NCAA tourney game first.  If it is both in the same round it is a push.

As for Nildogg, come on!  What else could he have meant. An "easier chance"??  What he was saying is that as a second, third or fourth place team in the A10, Butler would have a shot at the tourney.  If they don't win the Horizon their chances are low.  If he thought winning the Horizon would be a cake walk don't you think he would have said something like..."we think we could win the Horizon but it would be tough.  In the A10, being a second, third or fourth place team would still give us a chance."

That is what he meant and you know it.  The path to the Horizon auto-bid goes through Valpo.  The other path has various options.  No disrespect, just facts.

[wh]

Stevens comment before Butler decided to leave early:

"We certainly won't be picked to win that league (HL).  We should not be picked to win that league.".

http://www.usatoday.com/video/brad-stevens-on-butlers-move-to-atlantic-10/1617946786001

No doubt Butler should be significantly better next year, but so will Valpo.  The starting 5 is back, including the Conf POY and the top center in the league.  You picked up an amazing transfer, but we have added 3 quality BCS players ourselves.    You guys are banking on your returning players being better, as you should.  That said, why wouldn't ours improve to the same extent.  In fact, in some cases you're hoping to see things you didn't see last year.  IMO both teams should be significantly better.  Given that we swept you last year, including 2 blowouts at the end of the season, wouldn't common sense say we should probably at least start the season a little more highly regarded.  Apparently your coach thinks so.  It's a shame we won't be able to settle it on the court.

[dylanrocks]

It's a shame we won't be able to settle it on the court.

No truer words have been spoken here.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Judging by the amount of D.B. Butler fans on here, I don't doubt it that zvillehaze doesn't like most of the people on the Butler board.

But I don't have a problem with anybody here (at least since the guy I was mistaken for disappeared : ).

72 & wh, I love the talk!  Keep it up--All My Rowdy ('n) Friends are comin' over to get your back.

[crusaderjoe]

Truly disappointing to read most of this thread.  ALL boards have knuckleheads, including Butler and Valpo.   I like the Crusader's program and I hope Butler keeps up the series.  Valpo, you had better sweep the season and league tournament next year....... as you are pretty much guaranteeing it now.

As for rankings, it is Butler that has top 25 rankings already in many polls, so I guess someone out there sees something you guys don't want to see. 

As for the MyIndy TV coverage,  90% of those games were HOME games...... very rarely did AC and company do a road game, so let's get the facts straight. 

Stay classy Valparaiso!

Hey now, don't count all of us in that group.  Some of us are not acting like jilted lovers.  There are some of us here who respect what Butler is doing by moving to the A-10 and wish them success.  I know I certainly do.  I don't consider this move to be elitist or based on greed at all.  It is simply a facilitation of a larger process.  I hope we can schedule home and homes in the future.

It is clear that BU values the public vs. private academic distinction more so than a similarly situated school like VU.  They want to raise their academic stature and athletically want to compete at a much higher level by virtue of a conference change.  There's nothing wrong with that as an institutional value.

If you think my comments are ridiculous, then I guess the University of Hawaii's new Chancellor is an idiot too:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/152106665.html?id=152106665

Good luck in the A-10.

[Valpo89]

No way will Butler ever agree to schedule VU for a regular season game. No way. Why are some of you clinging to that?

[milanmiracle]

Wow! Things must be slow on the Butler board--they are coming after me pretty hard  .  OK Haze, I'll take the bet.  $20 buck on who wins an NCAA tourney game first.  If it is both in the same round it is a push.

As for Nildogg, come on!  What else could he have meant. An "easier chance"??  What he was saying is that as a second, third or fourth place team in the A10, Butler would have a shot at the tourney.  If they don't win the Horizon their chances are low.  If he thought winning the Horizon would be a cake walk don't you think he would have said something like..."we think we could win the Horizon but it would be tough.  In the A10, being a second, third or fourth place team would still give us a chance."

That is what he meant and you know it.  The path to the Horizon auto-bid goes through Valpo.  The other path has various options.  No disrespect, just facts.

Um...the path to the Horizon League auto bid goes through Valpo? Really? No disrespect intended here, but Valpo has never received the auto bid from the Horizon League, and even when they were the 1 seed...they didn't get it. I think it's a pretty bold statement considering it's something they've never done.

That being said, it's likely and they have as good a shot this year as ever to win the HL tournament

And the Butler people are right, it's a better opportunity to win an at large bid out of the A10 than the Horizon League. The A10 is just better overall. History backs up that statement. The move is good for Butler and bad for the Horizon League, but that the reality of the situation and everyone should move on. Butler's improved their lot in life, let's hope Valpo can do the same?

[milanmiracle]

No way will Butler ever agree to schedule VU for a regular season game. No way. Why are some of you clinging to that?

I am not clinging to that in the slightest. Won't happen, and from Butler's perspective, shouldn't happen. What would they gain? Look at it this way, Valpo holds onto the winning streak for a very long time.

[VULB#62]

I know the barn door is closed on this and it's old news.  But I stumbled on an ESPN-BOSTON story about the A-10 with Butler joining early that might interest some of you.  Between the lines it points out the difference in outlook between the HL and the A-10.

Quick Points:
ESPN says the 2012-13 A-10 will be a "beast" with Butler
Conference Tourney will be in NYC

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/colleges/post/_/id/2344/butler-coming-to-a-10-one-year-early

Helped me better grasp the reasons behind Butler's move in the first place.