HL Superconference

[blackpantheruwm]

Link: Could Horizon go all in with huge expansion?

Something I thought you guys would be interested in.

[vuweathernerd]

Link: Could Horizon go all in with huge expansion?

Something I thought you guys would be interested in.

i'm intrigued by adding drexel and george mason, but they're a bit outside of our regional footprint. but they could definitely help strengthen the conference. how much better would the horizon league be if we could add oakland, drexel, and mason to sit at 12 teams? that'd be quite a bit of fun.

[crusaderjoe]

It is interesting that in an article which suggests how a 16 team HL might work, you offer the WAC as an example of a conference that has been decimated by expansion; yet, there is no mention of the possibility that it was actually the 16 team WAC of the 1990's that ultimately began that conference's demise.  Where do you think the majority of the teams from the MWC came from?

Forget 16.  I would personally be happy at 12 or 14 if the goal is to move beyond 10.  If, and I mean if the HL was ever to get to 16, I would instead have some kind of four team, four pod system in place instead of moving to two eight team divisions.

 

[wh]

Link: Could Horizon go all in with huge expansion?

Something I thought you guys would be interested in.

Highly informative and value-added - a good 180.

[covufan]

If the HL decides to go to 14 or 16 teams, and a little outside the geographical footprint, here are some teams I would like to see in the HL:

Drake
Oakland
Evansville
Murray St.
Morehead St.
Belmont
Bradley

[bbtds]

If the HL decides to go to 14 or 16 teams, and a little outside the geographical footprint, here are some teams I would like to see in the HL:

Drake
Oakland
Evansville
Murray St.
Morehead St.
Belmont
Bradley

How do these schools fit the mold that LeCrone has established for the Horizon League? Scholarship, Service to the Community and Athletic Accomplishment. Do Murray State, Bradley, Oakland and Morehead State really fit this mold? Could they develop towards these ideals? I wonder somewhat about Coach Kampe. He's never afraid to show how tough he is on the basketball court. What kind of citizen does he produce?

Would Purdue, Kentucky, Georgetown, Louisville ever fit these ideals?

[FWalum]

If the HL decides to go to 14 or 16 teams, and a little outside the geographical footprint, here are some teams I would like to see in the HL:

Drake
Oakland
Evansville
Murray St.
Morehead St.
Belmont
Bradley

How do these schools fit the mold that LeCrone has established for the Horizon League? Scholarship, Service to the Community and Athletic Accomplishment. Do Murray State, Bradley, Oakland and Morehead State really fit this mold? Could they develop towards these ideals? I wonder somewhat about Coach Kampe. He's never afraid to show how tough he is on the basketball court. What kind of citizen does he produce?

Would Purdue, Kentucky, Georgetown, Louisville ever fit these ideals?

One of his "citizens" will become the new principal of Concordia Lutheran High School here in Fort Wayne on July 1st.  Here is his bio from Luther High North in Houston Texas.

Mychal Thom. 

Mr Thom is an impressive and dedicated Lutheran educator.

[bbtds]

If the HL decides to go to 14 or 16 teams, and a little outside the geographical footprint, here are some teams I would like to see in the HL:

Drake
Oakland
Evansville
Murray St.
Morehead St.
Belmont
Bradley

How do these schools fit the mold that LeCrone has established for the Horizon League? Scholarship, Service to the Community and Athletic Accomplishment. Do Murray State, Bradley, Oakland and Morehead State really fit this mold? Could they develop towards these ideals? I wonder somewhat about Coach Kampe. He's never afraid to show how tough he is on the basketball court. What kind of citizen does he produce?

Would Purdue, Kentucky, Georgetown, Louisville ever fit these ideals?

One of his "citizens" will become the new principal of Concordia Lutheran High School here in Fort Wayne on July 1st.  Here is his bio from Luther High North in Houston Texas.

Mychal Thom. 

Mr Thom is an impressive and dedicated Lutheran educator.

That is very impressive how far Mr. Thom was able to take his career. I do remember Mychal playing with the Dan Champagne, Mychal Covington, Brad Buddenborg, Jason Rozycki, Sebastien Bellin group that took on almost all of the minutes for Oakland when they switched from Div.II to Div.I.

I also remember Dan Champagne's brother, Jon Champagne, throwing punches at Phil Wille in the brawl at the end of a half at the ARC. Those who knew Phil Wille at the time, I believe, were fairly surprised he got into a fight. I've always heard that Greg Kampe is a very nice guy but was never one to shy away from a confrontation while Homer Drew, shall we say, would shy away from confrontation.

I wonder how Mychal Thom will feel about encouraging kids to go to Valpo.

I also wonder if he'll get along with AD Doerffler and Coach Mannigel. I hear Tim's a big Seward guy.

And feel free to get this thread back on track towards the HL superconference theme.

[FWalum]

I wonder how Mychal Thom will feel about encouraging kids to go to Valpo.

I also wonder if he'll get along with AD Doerffler and Coach Mannigel. I hear Tim's a big Seward guy.

I think he will be fine with sending kids to VU. 

We have already spent some time with Mychal and his wife along with Dean and Barb Doerffler, I think we will all get along just great.  Tim is a huge big Nebraska fan.  He will get along fine with Mychal if the football team, of which Tim is the head coach, shows some progress this coming fall.  I think the bigger pressure is on Josh Eggold the head boys basketball coach.  Everyone thinks that Concordia is going to be loaded next year but I am not so sure they will be able to live up to expectations without some better outside shooting.  If my new principal was a former DI player I would be a little nervous.

[blackpantheruwm]

If the HL decides to go to 14 or 16 teams, and a little outside the geographical footprint, here are some teams I would like to see in the HL:

Drake
Oakland
Evansville
Murray St.
Morehead St.
Belmont
Bradley

How do these schools fit the mold that LeCrone has established for the Horizon League? Scholarship, Service to the Community and Athletic Accomplishment. Do Murray State, Bradley, Oakland and Morehead State really fit this mold? Could they develop towards these ideals? I wonder somewhat about Coach Kampe. He's never afraid to show how tough he is on the basketball court. What kind of citizen does he produce?

Would Purdue, Kentucky, Georgetown, Louisville ever fit these ideals?

Is this a joke? Have you met Detroit?

[bbtds]

If the HL decides to go to 14 or 16 teams, and a little outside the geographical footprint, here are some teams I would like to see in the HL:

Drake
Oakland
Evansville
Murray St.
Morehead St.
Belmont
Bradley

How do these schools fit the mold that LeCrone has established for the Horizon League? Scholarship, Service to the Community and Athletic Accomplishment. Do Murray State, Bradley, Oakland and Morehead State really fit this mold? Could they develop towards these ideals? I wonder somewhat about Coach Kampe. He's never afraid to show how tough he is on the basketball court. What kind of citizen does he produce?

Would Purdue, Kentucky, Georgetown, Louisville ever fit these ideals?

Is this a joke? Have you met Detroit?

I think the whole Detroit situation reflects back mostly on the head coach & his son. Anyone remember the after game prayer after the Detroit/Valpo HL tournament championship basketball game?

[vuweathernerd]

If the HL decides to go to 14 or 16 teams, and a little outside the geographical footprint, here are some teams I would like to see in the HL:

Drake
Oakland
Evansville
Murray St.
Morehead St.
Belmont
Bradley

How do these schools fit the mold that LeCrone has established for the Horizon League? Scholarship, Service to the Community and Athletic Accomplishment. Do Murray State, Bradley, Oakland and Morehead State really fit this mold? Could they develop towards these ideals? I wonder somewhat about Coach Kampe. He's never afraid to show how tough he is on the basketball court. What kind of citizen does he produce?

Would Purdue, Kentucky, Georgetown, Louisville ever fit these ideals?

Is this a joke? Have you met Detroit?

I think the whole Detroit situation reflects back mostly on the head coach & his son. Anyone remember the after game prayer after the Detroit/Valpo HL tournament championship basketball game?

did something happen? i had turned off my tv by that point to say goodbye to my visitors.

[bmlvu97]

I very mich like the idea of the midwest "Mid-Major" superconference...  I wouldnt be suprised, though, if some of the lower end schools from bigger conferences may want to improve their lots by moving into a conference like this...Think DePaul, for example.  They are getting killed in the Big East. 

The one thing that would need to be watched is that it needs to be kept it a "regional" conference - nothing like the old Mid-Con when you traveled anywhere from Central Connecticut State & Buffalo to Southern Utah. 

Brian

[bbtds]

If the HL decides to go to 14 or 16 teams, and a little outside the geographical footprint, here are some teams I would like to see in the HL:

Drake
Oakland
Evansville
Murray St.
Morehead St.
Belmont
Bradley

How do these schools fit the mold that LeCrone has established for the Horizon League? Scholarship, Service to the Community and Athletic Accomplishment. Do Murray State, Bradley, Oakland and Morehead State really fit this mold? Could they develop towards these ideals? I wonder somewhat about Coach Kampe. He's never afraid to show how tough he is on the basketball court. What kind of citizen does he produce?

Would Purdue, Kentucky, Georgetown, Louisville ever fit these ideals?

Is this a joke? Have you met Detroit?

I think the whole Detroit situation reflects back mostly on the head coach & his son. Anyone remember the after game prayer after the Detroit/Valpo HL tournament championship basketball game?

did something happen? i had turned off my tv by that point to say goodbye to my visitors.

Two of the Detroit players stopped their celebrating to participate in the after game prayer.

[vuweathernerd]

If the HL decides to go to 14 or 16 teams, and a little outside the geographical footprint, here are some teams I would like to see in the HL:

Drake
Oakland
Evansville
Murray St.
Morehead St.
Belmont
Bradley

How do these schools fit the mold that LeCrone has established for the Horizon League? Scholarship, Service to the Community and Athletic Accomplishment. Do Murray State, Bradley, Oakland and Morehead State really fit this mold? Could they develop towards these ideals? I wonder somewhat about Coach Kampe. He's never afraid to show how tough he is on the basketball court. What kind of citizen does he produce?

Would Purdue, Kentucky, Georgetown, Louisville ever fit these ideals?

Is this a joke? Have you met Detroit?

I think the whole Detroit situation reflects back mostly on the head coach & his son. Anyone remember the after game prayer after the Detroit/Valpo HL tournament championship basketball game?

did something happen? i had turned off my tv by that point to say goodbye to my visitors.

Two of the Detroit players stopped their celebrating to participate in the after game prayer.

wow. definitely did not see that. glad to hear it though. i'm going to assume it wasn't mccallum. that boy just screams ego.

[blackpantheruwm]

Perhaps it's because you guys weren't around when Perry Watson was head coach, but the issues with Detroit's fan base and program have been around longer than the McCallums.  For every awesome person like TitanReg or Ben Lee, you've got 15 dopes.

[wh]

An article from the Dayton Daily News with interesting insights about the future direction of the HL:

Horizon League builds plan for future
David Jablonski
06/09/2012 11:54

FAIRBORN — Many want to know who will replace Butler University in the Horizon League. Commissioner Jon LeCrone is thinking broader.

At a recent two-day meeting in Chicago, LeCrone, all the Horizon League athletic directors, senior women administrators and league office staff developed a comprehensive growth agenda to guide the conference for years to come.

The talks will continue Thursday and Friday.

"What we're trying to have a conversation about is what I call the new world order in Division I athletics," LeCrone said. "No. 1, it's driven by football. No. 2, football has driven large media contracts, which has created unprecedented conference realignment. There are 31 Division I conferences, and in the last two years, 21 of those leagues have had members who have either departed or come into their league. It's all driven by football, all driven by access to the postseason, by the financial rewards the leagues have received from media companies."

That's not going to change, LeCrone knows, so the question becomes, "How does a conference without football prosper in that world?"

The growth agenda has five points.

Considering expansion

"That doesn't mean we will or won't expand," LeCrone said. "We will consider it. It needs to be done at the presidential level. It needs to be driven by our values."

Many have speculated about whether the Horizon will add one school to get back to an even 10 or perhaps make a bigger splash and expand to 12.

LeCrone is also considering scenarios in which the league stays at nine, and in that case, a current Horizon League member without baseball might add baseball so the league can get back to six baseball-playing schools and retain its NCAA bid. If the league expands, Oakland University, near Detroit, has already expressed interest in joining the Horizon. That alone would seem to make it an odds-on favorite. Oakland also comes from the Summit League, and the last team to jump to the Horizon was a Summit League school (Valparaiso in 2007).

With an enrollment of 11,466, Oakland would fit right in the middle of the league, which has an average enrollment of 8,900. Perhaps most importantly, it fits geographically with the rest of the conference.

Travel distances haven't been much of a concern for most conferences with the recent wave of expansion, but Wright State AD Bob Grant hopes it remains a concern for his league.

"You never say never, and I don't have any inside scoop, but I think it's a big selling point for us," Grant said. "You look at some of these conferences, and the travel is brutal."

If distance is important, schools from lower-ranked RPI conferences, in addition to Oakland, that are also within shouting distance of the Horizon members include: Robert Morris University, of the Northeastern Conference; Western Illinois, Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis and Indiana University-Purdue University Fort Wayne, of the Summit League; Northern Kentucky University, of the Atlantic Sun; Murray State, Morehead State and Southern Illinois, from the Ohio Valley Conference.

A little further afield is Belmont, a school in Nashville, Tenn., that is moving from the Atlantic Sun to the Ohio Valley this year.

At-large potential

The second item on the growth agenda, LeCrone said, is identifying programs that have won games in the NCAA tournament and received at-large berths into the field. Butler expanded the Horizon's profile with its success in March Madness, and the conference has received two bids three times the last 10 years (2003, 2007 and 2009).

"We can identify fairly easily probably a dozen programs that are built for at-large," LeCrone said. "They've always had at-large opportunities and won games in the tournament. We want to collect data on those schools and compare them to our schools and prepare a list of possible expansion candidates."

Collaboration

The Horizon League wants to work with like-minded conferences in the Midwest in terms of scheduling agreements, television deals and digital and social media.

"There are non-BCS conferences that have a lot to offer," Grant said. "If you pool your things together, it makes you more marketable. It makes perfect sense."

NCAA reform agenda

LeCrone wants the Horizon League to help shape the future of Division I. "We want to make sure our voice is heard," he said. "We want to stay engaged at every level."

Review of policies and procedures

The final prong of the growth agenda is a systematic review of everything the league does. The men's and women's basketball schedules for next season have already been thrown out and are being reworked, LeCrone said.

LeCrone is determined not to rush into any expansion, but the timetable has changed with the announcement that Butler will start competing in the Atlantic 10 this fall. The baseball problem looms.

"We take baseball very seriously," Grant said. "I'd like to think we're one of the bullies on the block as far as baseball in the Horizon League.

"This does start the clock ticking. We want to find another baseball school. Other schools feel the same way."

While LeCrone said the conference is on good financial footing, Grant is also concerned about the loss of the Butler game on the basketball schedule.

"It's a great game for us. I'm not going to sugarcoat it," Grant said. "My hope is we'll get some sort of regular Butler visit to the Nutter Center and also that we'll visit Hinkle."

[wh]

Some pretty interesting comments by BigDWSU on the WSU board:


A few thoughts about that article and what I am reading between the lines from what I have heard about the direction the HL wants to go in expansion.

1. Current HL teams need to get with the plan. The comment in the article about the HL staying at 9 and having a current HL team re-start their baseball team was directed at Detroit and Loyola. Either let Oakland in or someone is going to have to spend some extra money fielding a baseball team.

2. I don't think Dave came up with the list of potential new HL members on his own. I have heard that each of those schools have reached out to the HL to gage interest in them joining.

3. It wasn't in the article, but I keep hearing 12 is the number we would like to expand to.

4. Travel is important to the HL. Schools like George Mason, Davidson, and Drexel were not included because they don't make enough sense geographically.

5. The comment about expansion being "driven by our values" is AD talk for we want schools of similar size and resources. Schools like NKU are not going to be considered because they don't spend enough on athletics. We don't want to add another school like YSU that isn't committed to spending enough money on their basketball team to remain competitive.

6. We are only going to add teams with "at large potential". We aren't just going to add teams to add teams. We want to add teams that will help the HL become a consistent 2 bid conference. I think our initial wish list would be Oakland, Robert Morris, and Murray State. Oakland and Murray State have baseball teams which is a must for the HL. Oakland and Robert Morris make perfect sense geographically. Murray State doesn't but they probably have the best at large potential of the 3.

If the HL is able to add these 3 teams, we would have a strong conference of 12. We would have 1 more school with a baseball team than we need to keep our NCAA automatic bid. We wouldn't have to break into divisions. With 12 teams, we could play everyone twice for 22 conference games. It would make scheduling OOC games much easier with 4 less to schedule each year. We could also keep our scheduling model of travel partners.

UWGB/UWM
UIC/Loyola
Detroit/Oakland
Robert Morris/YSU
CSU/WSU
Valpo/Murray State

[vu72]

Interesting article and thoughts.  A couple of comments: First, the author said Southern Illinois is in the Ohio Valley and is in the Missouri Valley.  No way they leave the Valley.  Second, Oakland is bigger than 11,000.  This Wiki article say they have 15,000 undergrads and 19,000 total.  If he is thinking just undergrad then Valpo is by far the smallest at about 3,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_University

I like the idea of major expansion.  It will make a very big news splash.  At 12 we are bigger than the Valley who is at 10 and smaller than the MAC who is at 13.  Adding Murray State, Robert Morris and Oakland should put us more on an equal footing with the Valley and may make it more likely that they would undertake a pre-season matchup with us.

[HorizonLeagueFan]

Interesting article and thoughts.  A couple of comments: First, the author said Southern Illinois is in the Ohio Valley and is in the Missouri Valley.  No way they leave the Valley.

There are 2 Southern Illinois and they both go by Southern Illinois.  Southern Illinois-Edwardsville is in the OVC.  Southern Illinois-Carbondale is in the MVC.

[bbtds]

Interesting article and thoughts.  A couple of comments: First, the author said Southern Illinois is in the Ohio Valley and is in the Missouri Valley.  No way they leave the Valley.

There are 2 Southern Illinois and they both go by Southern Illinois.  Southern Illinois-Edwardsville is in the OVC.  Southern Illinois-Carbondale is in the MVC.

I have a friend that works at the Edwardsville campus which he refers to as SIU-E. Never as Southern Illinois. If one says Southern Illinois they are almost always referring to SIU-C in Carbondale. StlVUFan, I'm sure, could verify this as both schools consider themselves part of the St.Louis area.

[vuweathernerd]

Interesting article and thoughts.  A couple of comments: First, the author said Southern Illinois is in the Ohio Valley and is in the Missouri Valley.  No way they leave the Valley.

There are 2 Southern Illinois and they both go by Southern Illinois.  Southern Illinois-Edwardsville is in the OVC.  Southern Illinois-Carbondale is in the MVC.

I have a friend that works at the Edwardsville campus which he refers to as SIU-E. Never as Southern Illinois. If one says Southern Illinois they are almost always referring to SIU-C in Carbondale. StlVUFan, I'm sure, could verify this as both schools consider themselves part of the St.Louis area.

carbondale's about 3 hours from stl, if memory serves - not really part of the area. and the locals refer to edwardsville as siue. in the lou, edwardsville is siue and southern illinois is carbondale. and also let's not forget that carbondale has been d-1 for a while now, and siue is just transitioning into d-1.

[blackpantheruwm]

I've actually been to siue several times because my sister was an associate professor there until about a week ago (she's moving to Boston to work at Emerson), twice to sporting events - one our men's basketball game there, one a men's soccer game against SLU.  I'll tell you this - that soccer program is a hell of a draw, and I'd consider them a front-runner if that was the sport of consequence.

Men's basketball is only beginning to grow legs, and they're mighty weak legs at that. A big benefit for them is the Vadalabene Center, which is a pretty cool little gym of about 3,500 to 4,000 seats.  My favorite part is the outside - a huge schedule poster covering the entire facade, and a ticket office that looks like an old-time movie theater ticket window - but the inside is pretty nice too.

Facilities are no problem for the Cougars.  They need to spend more in men's basketball - a lot more - and they need to figure out their brand identity problem. I'd rebrand the entire school as "University at the Arch" or something along those lines, because they have the crap name trifecta - hyphen school, directional school, and little sister school.

[blackpantheruwm]

There's also no way that the DDN was talking about SIU, because if they were, Evansville/Bradley/Drake would most certainly be on the list.

[vu72]

The article just said Southern Illinois".  In the basketball world Southern Illinois means the school in the Missouri Valley.  What it means in their neighborhood is an entirely different matter.