Which Schools should the HL invite....pick 3

[valpopal]

Take this for what it is: Latest rumor speculation on Twitter and Facebook suggests the three likely teams to be added to the HL are Oakland, Belmont, and Evansville. I could see Oakland and Evansville; however, though I like these three and would want to add Belmont, I wonder why Belmont would move to the Horizon after just joining the Ohio Valley:

"PantherU: Not able to confirm this 100%, but it looks like Belmont, Oakland and Evansville will be joining the Horizon League. I'm not hearing any other schools brought up by my contacts, and too many contacts are using those three together. Either everyone I talk to is conferring with each other, or where there's smoke there's fire. I'm thinking the latter. . . . Seriously, this is speculation based on discussions with people. Not reporting anything. I have the feeling Its those 3 based on convos."

In addition, the following contains a non-denial denial by Evansville's Athletic Director, John Stanley:

"The University of Evansville is a member of the Missouri Valley Conference, and we haven't had any discussions about changing conferences." Stanley added: "We understand that the conference world is changing rapidly and has over the last couple years, so we always have to be aware of the circumstances surrounding us, and we'll make decisions based on events as they occur. We enjoy the Missouri Valley Conference, but we need to be cognizant of the world surround us as it comes to athletic conferences."
http://www.courierpressblogs.com/sports/ue/?p=217

[dylanrocks]

It seems to me that Belmont and Oakland are going to happen.

As for Evansville, its one-year-old Ford Center would be the crown jewel of the league. But I'm not sure that Evansville's addition would help accomplish the commissioner's stated objective of perennial multi-bid status.

I have no desire to divide a single NCAA Tournament payout into even more shares.

[vu72]

I think Evansville would be a very good addition.  It would also say something about the Horizon, in that we were able to attractive a team from the supposedly superior Valley.

From a Valpo prospective only, it would bring back an old rival from the ICC days.  We started playing them in 1931-32 and have played 82 times but not since 97-98.

Don't quite understand why they haven't been better of late as back in the day they were the studs in the conference and have won national championships.  Think Jerry Sloan.

As a private, highly regarded academic school, it would also be a good addition and could become Valpo's natural rival again.

[wh]

I came across this article from 2010 about the amazing growth Belmont has experienced in enrollment and revenues.  They are a university definitely on the rise.


Belmont ready to unveil visionary plan
Sunday, March 7, 2010 at 10:45pm
By William Williams

In 2000, Belmont University enrolled a modest 2,970 students, had assets of about $120 million, was affiliated with the Tennessee Baptist Convention and fielded a men's basketball team virtually unknown beyond Nashville.

Ten years later, and guided by an extensive planning document called Vision 2010, Belmont has become a vastly different place. Enrollment has risen to roughly 5,420, an 82 percent jump. The university's assets stand at about $350 million, with its operating budget having grown from about $48 million to $130 million.

During the decade, Belmont University severed its ties from the conservative TBC, hosted a presidential campaign debate and saw its men's hoops team almost beat Duke in the 2008 NCAA Tournament. On-campus construction hummed. Professors from across the nation came on board. Retention and graduation numbers improved. And the October 2009 proposal of a law school drew heavy local ink.

Belmont President Bob Fisher, who began his tenure in April 2000, said Vision 2010 "exceeded our dreams" — such that the university is ready to leap another five years ahead.

Vision 2015 — an internal planning document The City Paper has reviewed — could forever close the chapter on "Belmont pre-2000," which offered a close-knit, liberal arts teaching environment and an unassuming persona.

The recent circulation of the proposal — and various campus-wide group discussions regarding it — suggests the university's leadership is prepared to aggressively catapult Belmont onto the field of regional academic powerhouses. Meetings of the Faculty Senate (members of which could not be reached for comment) are now taking place weekly as opposed to monthly, and Vision 2015 is a key reason.

Building enrollment and endowment

University leaders are proposing many goals, but the two most ambitious are increasing enrollment to 7,000 and taking the endowment, currently at about $65 million, to $125 million. At this rate, Belmont would begin to challenge Vanderbilt (approximately 12,000 students) and Tennessee State University (about 10,500 students) among Davidson County-based universities. The Belmont endowment is already greater than that of TSU (about $28 million), yet it trails the $78 million endowment of Lipscomb University (enrollment of about 3,400).

Fisher declined to comment directly about Vision 2015, citing its not-yet finalized status and his desire to solicit campus-wide feedback before he addresses it with the general public. However, Fisher acknowledged he and the Board of Trustees are pointing to Vision 2010 as a template for any future growth.

"Whatever the next plan ends up being, it is going to be ambitious," Fisher said. "We've learned to love the successes we've had, so we'll be very ambitious in our next steps."

Metro Councilwoman Kristine LaLonde, whose District 18 includes the university, said the Belmont University Neighborhood Advisory Group, which includes neighbors and school representatives, is "meeting actively" to address solutions to any problems that might occur with future expansion.

"Obviously, more students and staff at Belmont will have an impact on the neighborhood," said LaLonde, who works full time at Belmont as coordinator of Project LEAD, the university's honors leadership studies program.

"My role in this [proposed enrollment] expansion is to act as a vigorous advocate for the neighborhood to minimize any negative ramifications of Belmont's growth," she said, "including possible effects on parking and traffic."

A council-approved conservation zoning overlay in part will shape any future development outside the school's current footprint.

The money will roll right in

Stroll through the Belmont campus and you'll notice the boom. Within a few years, BU has completed construction of various new buildings, including the Curb Event Center and the Gordon E. Inman Center. Currently under construction are buildings to house a pharmacy program and student residences.

Development drives interest, which often translates into added enrollment and recognition. For example, U.S. News & World Report in 2009 ranked Belmont No. 7 of "master's degree-level universities" in the South.

According to statistics Belmont officials provided to The City Paper, the university saw revenues generated by tuition and fees increase from about $35 million to roughly $110 million during the last decade. But with that growth came challenges, as university statistics also show that the number of full-time faculty members barely increased by half of the growing student population.

Fisher said that must be kept in context, with the school's student-teacher ratio remaining manageable.

"We became much more efficient in the way we scheduled classes and assigned instructors [including adjuncts]," he said.

Belmont touts its low student-teacher ratio of 12 to 1, but many Belmont classes have 20 or more students, according to a review of the website classfinder.belmont.edu.

Eric Deems, vice president of the university's Student Government Association, said Fisher has been receptive to student feedback on future plans yet hopes the administration will move cautiously.

"Belmont is a wonderful place with a unique sense of community on its campus," Deems said. "I would hate for Belmont to lose this distinct, competitive edge over similar schools because of it getting too big. My hope is that, as Belmont moves forward with growth, it constantly measures the effects on campus life from its growth.

Vision 2015 is not limited to enrollment and monetary issues. For example, the document mentions issues related to improving diversity and to a branding of sorts, with the phrasing "Nashville's university" related to service learning.

Maggie Monteverde, assistant provost for international education, said she is encouraged to see study abroad and global awareness programs as part of the proposal.

"They go hand in hand and are a major focus of the proposed Vision 2015," she said.

Yet to be resolved, however, is how the Christian-affiliated university will handle Vision 2015's reference to "a culture of inclusion," if that is to include faith diversity.

[VULB#62]

Nice digging WH - enjoyed reading it. Their move to the OVC is right in line with what they're doing in other areas.  The theme I got out of this article is that they adopted an  "if you build it, they will come" attitude.  That aggressive approach paid off.  They didn't over-do the construction but were aggressive about it.  I liked the thought that "Development drives interest, which often translates into added enrollment and recognition."

I used your post as a lead-in for a continuation post on the Strategic Plan.

[wh]

Interesting post by bigdwsu on the WSU board re. programs the HL is rumored to be considering:

I wouldn't say that. I think Jimmy just jumped the gun a little bit and didn't really present it the best way. He should have put together a well thought out blog story or just a post on one of the message boards instead of announcing it on twitter and explained that those are the 3 names he is hearing the most. The way it came across on twitter, people were thinking he was announcing that it is some sort of done deal and it is no where close to a done deal. I keep hearing 5 names: Oakland, Belmont, Evansville, Murray St, and Robert Morris. Here are the RUMORS I hear about each school. (and I want to emphasize all of this is based on rumors).

Oakland: Oakland wants in. They made it known in the media months ago. The HL wants them in. Well I should say 7 of 9 HL schools want them in or 6 of 9 do. Detroit and Loyola have been holding this up and I hear Valpo might/might not be part of that. Detroit doesn't want them in and Loyola has been backing them up based on old loyalties between the 2 schools. I hear that Oakland will be invited. I hear the rest of the HL has compromised with Detroit and Loyola and agreed to go after 2 private schools if they agree to let Oakland in. I think Valpo is fine with Oakland being part of the HL, but I hear they have been part of that discussion because they also want the HL to go after some private schools (specifically Evansville). Oakland is important to most HL schools. We want a good basketball program first and foremost. They also have a baseball team which is a priority and they give the HL another presence in Michigan which we wanted. HL teams like to recruit Michigan but have not had the success there they would like. Having 2 local schools should help with Michigan recruiting. Oakland gives Detroit a natural travel partner and a built in rival. They also give Valpo a good rival from their Summit days.

Belmont: Belmont offers everything the HL wants except for their location. They have a really good basketball program, baseball team, facilities, fan base, and they spend money on sports. They are one of the few good mid-majors out there without football, so we never have to worry about them jumping conferences based on a football move. They also give us a presence in a new state which opens up a new area for recruiting. From Belmont's side, they have legit interest. They are just entering their first year in the OVC, but the OVC is a much lower rated conference than the HL. The OVC is a 20-25 ranked conference that gets bad NCAA seeds and never gets at large bids. The HL is a 10-15 ranked conference that can get decent seeds and has been able to get at large bids. Travel is an issue, but if the HL divides into 2 six team divisions that travel can be managed. Nashville is also an easy city to travel to by major highways and airfare there is cheap. If we add Evansville, they are only a 2.5 hr drive away which just gave them a travel partner in the HL.

Evansville: Evansville is the team we have to go after to appease Detroit, Loyola and Valpo. They were once in the HL and were a major player in the conference. They moved to the MVC 18 years ago when the HL went through our last major shakeup. I don't think they wanted to leave then. I think they left out of fear that the conference was going under and they didn't want to be left in the dark. They have been in the MVC for 18 years and have struggled in that conference. Their budget is under 10 million a year which is well below most MVC schools. That is a decent budget for the HL though. They have also struggled to develop any rivalries in the MVC. They still have 2 rivals in Loyola and Detroit from their MCC days. They also have an old rivalry with Valpo. They could be ready to come back to the HL because of fear that the MVC is ready for a major shake up. Creighton is being courted by the A-10 and several of their football schools have been looking at their football options. They could very well be ready to move on before they are left in the dark in that conference. From a HL standpoint, they haven't had the kind of success we have been looking for, but they do have some good selling points. They have good potential to improve when they get into the HL. They just built great facilities for basketball. They have a good budget for a HL team. They give us a second presence in the state of Indiana which is huge for the HL because every HL team likes to recruit in Indiana.

Murray St: Murray St is the team most HL fans want and honestly I think most HL schools would prefer them too but the HL will go after Evansville first. If Evansville turns us down I think Murray State would be next on the list. The upside of Murray State is that they have a great basketball team with a good name brand to sell because of their success. They have a baseball team, good facilities, and spend money on their athletics. The downside to them is their location, they have football, and they are not private. Even though geographically they are closer than Belmont, there is no easy way to get there by flight or by driving. You have to worry about them finding a home for their football team and worry about them eventually leaving the HL for a football conference down the line. And they are not private. I don't know if Loyola, Detroit, and Valpo will agree to them.

Robert Morris: If Robert Morris had a baseball team I think they would be number 2 on our wish list. They are in a good location. They are private. They have a good basketball team. If Evansville turns us down, I wouldn't be surprised to see them invited before Murray State just because they are a private school and make good geographic sense being so close to YSU.


These are the rumors I have been hearing from friends around the HL. Take them for what they are worth.

[VULB#62]

Someone please refresh our collective memories on when an announcement on this important issue is due?  Is it after the HL 2013 BB tourney?

I'd love to see E'ville, Oakland, and Belmont.  I think Murray State is committed to OVC because they are top dog in MBB and for FB.  The FB piece for Belmont might be the turner in favor of yet another move to the HL.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

i dunno that the OVC is as poorly regarded as BigDWSU seems to think:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_glockner/09/19/ohio-valley-belmont-murray-state/index.html

Last year they were 15 and we 16 (RealTimeRPI)...

[valpotx]

It took a 31-2 season from Murray State to get them to that level.  Everyone else in their conference is pretty mediocre. 

I would love to see Oakland, Belmont, and Evansville as well.  It adds 2 private schools, 3 baseball teams, all are fairly easy to get to, and will make us a better conference in all sports.  Evansville would do much better in the HL than MVC, and if they ever add football again, could just add non-scholarship to be in the Pioneer again.  I believe they don't want to have scholarship football in the future, but have talked about the PL as an option if they go that route again.  The MVC is primed for some conference realignment, whereas the HL should remain fairly unscathed with Butler now gone.  I could see Detroit/Loyola/Valpo getting some bites from other conferences wanting private schools.  With all of our sports, if things do shake up in the next few years, I could see us being a hot commodity if basketball keeps doing what they have been doing the last few years.

[crusaderjoe]

It took a 31-2 season from Murray State to get them to that level.  Everyone else in their conference is pretty mediocre. 

I would love to see Oakland, Belmont, and Evansville as well.  It adds 2 private schools, 3 baseball teams, all are fairly easy to get to, and will make us a better conference in all sports.  Evansville would do much better in the HL than MVC, and if they ever add football again, could just add non-scholarship to be in the Pioneer again.  I believe they don't want to have scholarship football in the future, but have talked about the PL as an option if they go that route again.  The MVC is primed for some conference realignment, whereas the HL should remain fairly unscathed with Butler now gone. I could see Detroit/Loyola/Valpo getting some bites from other conferences wanting private schools.  With all of our sports, if things do shake up in the next few years, I could see us being a hot commodity if basketball keeps doing what they have been doing the last few years.

Uh oh, better watch what you say.  You are dangerously coming close to touting the "public vs. private" distinction that irritates BigD to no end and also makes some of the fans at UWM think that we are being elitist. 

Seriously, if what BigD says above is true, you guys are missing one of the most important aspects of what he has written concerning VU.  And that is this--if in fact VU has formed an alliance with Loyola and Detroit as it relates to conference expansion, this is hugely significant because this position will have indicated a paradigm shift in thinking by the University.  IMO, this will be the first time in its D-I athletic history that VU has valued the "public vs. private" distinction as it relates to conference affiliation.  I've often maintained that this distinction has not been terribly relevant to VU given its athletic history at the D-I level, especially given the fact that VU has been conference members with only two private schools since 1982 before our move to the HL.  Perhaps this thinking has changed.

I think a UE, BU and OU move in tandem would appease everyone in the HL, regardless of this distinction.

[HorizonLeagueFan]

i dunno that the OVC is as poorly regarded as BigDWSU seems to think:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_glockner/09/19/ohio-valley-belmont-murray-state/index.html

Last year they were 15 and we 16 (RealTimeRPI)...

Last year the OVC was the 21st rated conference.
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

[Big D]

Seriously, if what BigD says above is true, you guys are missing one of the most important aspects of what he has written concerning VU.  And that is this--if in fact VU has formed an alliance with Loyola and Detroit as it relates to conference expansion, this is hugely significant because this position will have indicated a paradigm shift in thinking by the Univerity. 

You guys are reading something into my post that just wasn't there.  Detroit and Loyola are definitely worried about the whole public vs private school thing.  I don't think Valpo is worried about how many public or private schools are in the HL.  I believe Valpo has been part of the discussion with Loyola and Detroit because you guys want Evansville in the HL.  It is my understanding that Valpo wants Evansville more for their location and rivalry potential than the fact that they are private.  Getting into Detroit/Loyola's private school campaign was just an ends to a means to get Evansville.
And for the record, the whole public vs private thing doesn't really irritate me at all.  I would like the HL to add 3 great schools.  I don't care if they are all private as long as they are the best 3 teams we can get.  Personally I think the order we should go after schools should be:
1.Murray State
2. Belmont
3. Oakland
4. Robert Morris
5. Evansville

[Big D]

i dunno that the OVC is as poorly regarded as BigDWSU seems to think:

Last year they were 15 and we 16 (RealTimeRPI)...

You are getting the Summit League confused with the OVC.  The OVC has been ranked 21, 27, 20, 23, 28, 25, 20, 21, 24, and 24 over the last 10 years.  The MVC hasn't had a single at large bid in that time span either. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

reread it and weep: http://realtimerpi.com/ncaab/conf_Men.html

Perhaps your link and mine appear identical, but yours is pre-NCAA tourney and mine is post.

OVC = 15 in conference power rankings.  HL = 16.

[Big D]

reread it and weep:

Perhaps your link and mine appear identical, but yours is pre-NCAA tourney and mine is post.

OVC = 15 in conference power rankings.  HL = 16.

I did reread it and I'm not weeping.  I hate to break it to you, but RealtimeRPI.com's "power rankings" and the actual conference RPI are not the same thing.  I posted the REAL RPI rankings for the OVC above.  You are posting RealtimeRPI.com's own ranking system, their "power rankings."  Those are meaningless.  If you check out their RPI page or any other site that lists conference RPI you will see that the OVC has not broken the top 20 in the last decade as I already posted above.  I would provide multiple links but I haven't posted enough times for this site to allow me to post links.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Then read the CNN/SI article instead.  They're on the way up, whether you like it or not.

If you'd watched the postseason--though, probably not, since you're a WSU fan-you'd see they acquitted themselves pretty well.

In fact, outside of the top 10 or so conferences in America, only one league has put a team into the NCAA tournament's round of 32 in each of the last three seasons: the Ohio Valley Conference.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_glockner/09/19/ohio-valley-belmont-murray-state/index.html#ixzz286mkU5dg

[valpotx]

If you look at your Realtimerpi power rankings, they don't even have the Summit listed.  Can't be reliable if they forget a conference 

[crusaderjoe]

Seriously, if what BigD says above is true, you guys are missing one of the most important aspects of what he has written concerning VU.  And that is this--if in fact VU has formed an alliance with Loyola and Detroit as it relates to conference expansion, this is hugely significant because this position will have indicated a paradigm shift in thinking by the Univerity. 

You guys are reading something into my post that just wasn't there.  Detroit and Loyola are definitely worried about the whole public vs private school thing.  I don't think Valpo is worried about how many public or private schools are in the HL.  I believe Valpo has been part of the discussion with Loyola and Detroit because you guys want Evansville in the HL.  It is my understanding that Valpo wants Evansville more for their location and rivalry potential than the fact that they are private.  Getting into Detroit/Loyola's private school campaign was just an ends to a means to get Evansville.
And for the record, the whole public vs private thing doesn't really irritate me at all.  I would like the HL to add 3 great schools.  I don't care if they are all private as long as they are the best 3 teams we can get.  Personally I think the order we should go after schools should be:
1.Murray State
2. Belmont
3. Oakland
4. Robert Morris
5. Evansville

Nice to see you back here, although do me a favor--please don't resurrect "HorizonLeagueFan" again, ok?    It's getting too confusing keeping track of who's who.

I was just bantering with you about the public vs. private thing since we were discussing it on Milwakee's board some months back.  As far as your comments, I wasn't trying to read into them--however if VU has aligned with UDM and LUC even in the slightest, I would say that lean is still significant for Valpo in some respects.

Question for you:  Why are you putting Robert Morris above UE?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

valpo tx--that's because after their performance last year, the "Summit" Conference was renamed the "Nadir" Conference (although if they catch fire upon this year's impact, they'll be adjusted to the "Nader" Conference).

In all seriousness, Horizon League fans can't throw stones at the OVC when it's had just as much success as we--if not more so--when you consider that the only program that actually made us a two-bid league--in the rare years we were even that--just left us for greener pastures.

It's as if the Gary(-Chicago) Airport were making fun of the South Bend Airport.  After Hooters Air left them for the A-10 runway.  We may well recruit another to be an (alle)Giant improvement, but until that happens, you can't drive your home's value up by belittling other neighborhoods. 

Or mixing metaphors, apparently.

[wh]

In order to fairly evaluate the impact Belmont would have on the relative difference in strength of the HL vs. the OVC, you need to also consider the difference with Belmont as a member of the HL instead of the OVC.  I think the conclusion would be quite a bit different than the one you drew.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Couldn't--wouldn't be "quite" different.

How could it?  Would you trade Butler straight up for Belmont?  No?  Then how so?

Then when you say, "but wouldn't you trade Butler for Schools A, B, & C and a bag of basketballs?" the answer is at best, "maybe", because you've increased the denominator of the equation, exponentially decreasing everyone's payout.

Let's say we make $10 mil, with or w/o Butler.  Among 10 schools, that's a million each.  Among 12, that's $833k--16% less!

The only way we can get back to break even--where we were before--would be to become an at-large berth-receiving league four out of five years.  And that's A10/WCC territory there.  Can we swing that mortgage?

The only way the OVC returns to being the "Other Valley Conference" worthy of the denigration we seem to be bent on heaping upon them is that we (or someone else) would pillage them for both Murray St & Belmont.  Then we can talk about the "gentrification" of our neighborhood and the "urbanization" of theirs.

[wh]

Let me see if I can accurately paraphrase your words of wit:

"You're right, wh, but it's hard so I chose to ignore it." 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

If you were right, I wouldn't have had to tell you that you weren't

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Good time for this:

[covufan]

If you look at your Realtimerpi power rankings, they don't even have the Summit listed.  Can't be reliable if they forget a conference 

Odd, because they are 16th in the Conference RPI:

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

Someone must have spent too much time at the summit, and was out of oxygen to the brain