Death Penalty

[vuweathernerd]

there's a lot of talk right now that penn state's football program should receive the death penalty for the sandusky scandal, especially in light of the report that just came out by louis freeh and his team of investigators. i didn't follow the 2003 baylor scandal as closely, but was there any sort of similar reaction or demand for the death penalty for baylor basketball after the scandal in waco?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Talk of a "death penalty" is silly.  There was no violation of NCAA rules--so how can the NCAA come down on them?  Even moreso, why? That would be like the IRS auditing you because you committed murder.

I'll let Brian Cook take it from here:

The NCAA has an enforcement mechanism to maintain its own set of rules for things that the legal system has nothing to say about. Here, the perpetrators are going to jail. That is an appropriate punishment and effective deterrent. The NCAA stepping in is redundant, and the hammer would fall on a completely unrelated set of people. The legal system has a laser-aimed bazooka; the NCAA would be deploying a wonky BB gun with a misaligned sight. Meanwhile, the Department of Education could look into Penn State essentially ignoring the Clery act and PSU is about to be flooded with civil lawsuits that insurance probably won't cover. Deterrence: check.

http://mgoblog.com/content/unverified-voracity-coins-nickname

[valpotx]

The Baylor scandal also incorporated NCAA rules being broken, outside of the murder.  So far, no NCAA rules have been shown to be broken.

[bbtds]

To me that seems like saying the IRS should ignore murder as a motivation for Al Capone to commit tax evasion. As long as Mr. Capone didn't break any IRS laws let him commit murder. I realize that by not paying taxes on his ill gotten gain Capone WAS committing tax evasion.

In the NCAA's case they should be finding a way to punish Penn State in any way shape or form because of the loss of institutional control which allowed a staff of a very profitable sports program to cover-up a crime and to actually commit a crime by covering up Sandusky's crime in order for the university to profit from the sports program.

I also think the Joe Paterno statue should come down immediately because it will always remind the victims that Paterno was guilty of a crime against them by covering up Sandusky's crime and perjuring himself to a grand jury. That statue is a true insult to those victims. It really is time for the NCAA to put their foot down. Say "NO MORE" cheating, covering up for the sake of revenue and for the reputation of the sports programs' staff. This lead to crimes against victims that will never recover. The NCAA, I feel, is just as guilty as the Penn State administrators that let this go on if they don't put their foot down now!!!!   The NCAA must do their real job!!!!  The death penalty is needed for Penn State football if only for loss of institutional control. 

[VULB#62]

I agree that the "lack of institutional control" is the point that most who are calling for the death penalty are using as justification, and that is certainly in the NCAA's wheelhouse.  However, despite a murder and blatant disregard for the rules, Baylor, I believe, lost some scholarships and was denied post-season eligibility but only for a couple of years.  The Tressel case at OSU, that also involved lack of institutional control as well as Tressel's 'misstatements' also fell short of the death penalty. Some analysts point to the SMU case and the fact that the NCAA penalties they received served to put SMU in a position from which it  took 30 years for them to recover.  They state that the NCAA, seeing that, will never impose those penalties again on any school.  They also point out that SMU, at the time, was not quite an elite school and thus easier to clobber. Going back to the IRS, they find it much easier to go after you and me, the middle class, than fight it out with the uber wealthy.

My belief is that there will be institutional control penalties against PSU, but nowhere near a death penalty.  As Apostle points out with the Brian Cook quote, the NCAA will let the other jurisdictions take their heftier cuts first, but I do believe that there was a lack of institutional control and a premeditated cover-up from Paterno all the way up to the PSU president, so some penalties will come down in addition to the criminal and civil punishment.  My belief has been recently reinforced by the NY Times revelation yesterday that Paterno, seeing the writing on the wall way back when the Grand Jury was first investigating Sandusky, initiated negotiations for a sweetened golden parachute.  He knew something was gonna hit the fan and he was planning for the worst even back then.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Oh, I knew, and said, when it first came out in November, that they all knew.  They had to--or why would Paterno's one-time protegé retire a long time before the mentor?  That was all the proof I needed that not only was he guilty, but that his superiors knew, and coerced an early retirement.

Still--the NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction here.  Talk of anything--let alone the "death penalty"--is risible.

Tell you what--if the NCAA does anything to PSU football, then I'll do enough fundraising to have the new football stadium named after me.

[VULB#62]

Brown Field or Beaver Stadium?   

[bbtds]

Some analysts point to the SMU case and the fact that the NCAA penalties they received served to put SMU in a position from which it  took 30 years for them to recover.  They state that the NCAA, seeing that, will never impose those penalties again on any school.

I truly believe that 30 years is not enough to make the statement that the NCAA SHOULD make in this case. This went beyond the coaching staff and AD, it went to saving the revenue that this sports program generates and the reputation of the long, long time football coach which was necessary to save the revenue generated. The terrible crime went beyond hiding the nature of a student, it injured the psyche of children. I know it's not good to rate sins but our justice system is predicated on rating the severity of crime. To me this was much much worse and Penn State, the university, not just the football program is guilty and deserves something in this kind of punishment. The NCAA needs to put the foot down so it never happens again and truly clean up collegiate sports. 

[bbtds]

Of course this statement and penalty of Penn State would ultimately cut revenue for Valpo's basketball program because the BCS schools would not generate the revenue that Valpo gets from participating in the NCAA tournament. Are we as Valpo fans selling out to the revenue stream too?

[VULB#62]

Morally and ethically I agree bbtds. 

A rising tide floats all boats, and the way D-I is moving Valpo might easily have to play the game in order to play the game.  ......IF, they want to stay in D-I.  Branding and national recognition that comes with seeing VU on the ESPN crawler and televised BB games aside, the way to avoid being pulled into the flood is to go D-III.   ................OR resolutely fight the battle against everything bad we are seeing across high powered athletics.  But that may be like shoveling sand against the tide.

[VULB#62]

This afternoon I heard on Boston Sports Talk Radio that in 2011-12 PSU reached its second greatest cash donation influx ($209 +/- million) on record during the Sandusky proceedings.  It appears PSU alumni are in denial and are circling the wagons rather than demanding transparency, justice and recognition that PSU is broken and needs fixing.

[bbtds]

This afternoon I heard on Boston Sports Talk Radio that in 2011-12 PSU reached its second greatest cash donation influx ($209 +/- million) on record during the Sandusky proceedings.  It appears PSU alumni are in denial and are circling the wagons rather than demanding transparency, justice and recognition that PSU is broken and needs fixing.

I liked the idea that I heard that any money generated by the PSU football program should go directly to institutions that were created to help prevent child abuse and treat children that have been incredibly hurt by pedifiles.

Everyone of those PSU alumni and friends should have to listen to an abuse victim explain what their abuse has done to their lives. How the glorification of Paterno rubs salt into a very open wound. It would make each and every one of those PSU alumni or friend physically vomit!

I think the name should be changed to Unhappy Valley because it will be forever linked to abuse victims openly suffering because the PSU alumni and friends will be known for defending those that helped create more victims of abuse by turning their heads when it came time to put an end to the abuse. There is NO EXCUSE for this continued festering of the psychological wounds!

[valpo04]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8162972/joe-paterno-true-legacy

Paterno let a child molester go when he could've stopped him. He let him go and then lied to cover his sinister tracks. He let a rapist go to save his own recruiting successes and fundraising pitches and big-fish-small-pond hide.

Here's a legacy for you. Paterno's cowardice and ego and fears allowed Sandusky to molest at least eight more boys in the years after that 1998 incident -- Victims 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9 and 10. Just to recap: By not acting, a grown man failed to protect eight boys from years of molestation, abuse and self-loathing, all to save his program the embarrassment.

I hope the NCAA gives Penn State the death penalty it most richly deserves. The worst scandal in college football history deserves the worst penalty the NCAA can give. They gave it to SMU for winning without regard for morals. They should give it to Penn State for the same thing. The only difference is, at Penn State they didn't pay for it with Corvettes. They paid for it with lives.

This throws a can of black paint on anything anybody tells me about Paterno from here on in. "No NCAA violations in all those years." I believe it. He was great at hiding stuff. "He gave $4 million to the library." In exchange for what? "He cared about kids away from the football field." No, he didn't. Not all of them. Not when it really mattered.

[valpo04]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8171574/jerry-sandusky-scandal-ncaa-president-mark-emmert-signals-heavy-sanctions-penn-state

NCAA president Mark Emmert has not ruled out drastically punishing Penn State football in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky scandal.

Still reeling from the content of the Freeh report, Emmert did not dismiss the notion of issuing the so-called "death penalty" against Penn State, asserting that the unprecedented nature of the Sandusky scandal could warrant extreme punishment.

"This is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal like happened at SMU, or anything else we've dealt with," Emmert said. "This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem. There have been people that said this wasn't a football scandal.

"Well it was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem."

[bbtds]

I hand delivered a letter to Mark Emmert at the NCAA headquarters in White River State Park on the canal in downtown Indy this morning. Hopefully the guy at the desk with the NCAA jacket didn't put it directly in the trash.

In the letter I stated my view that Penn State football deserved the death penalty. I encourage you to write your own letters to Mark Emmert of the NCAA if you share my views.

[StlVUFan]

Read an interesting opinion piece in favor of leaving the statue up precisely because it means people will never be able to forget what happens when one man has that much power and hero worship.

[bbtds]

Read an interesting opinion piece in favor of leaving the statue up precisely because it means people will never be able to forget what happens when one man has that much power and hero worship.

I can only approve of leaving the statue up if the PSU administration also puts a plaque below the statue that states the story behind Paterno's firing and that Penn State wishes that a sports staff person to never acquire that much power again.

[bbtds]

http://www.theindychannel.com/sports/31280565/detail.html

Along with the airplane banner the PSU students have changed the name of the area where they camp out in line for tickets to football games from Paternoville to Nittanyville.

I don't advocate anyone destroying property and breaking the law but their sentiment is very good.

"I'm a Penn State employee that thinks we have failed miserably, and I'm sad for the damage that has been done, but this is just upsetting," Diane Farley, a PSU alumnus who spotted the plane on Tuesday told the Patriot-News of Harrisburg. "It's just stirring up everything."

And until the PSU faculty, staff, alumni, students and friends get the point it should continue to happen.

Brown University in Rhode Island pulled the name of Paterno, an alumnus, from its outstanding male freshman athlete award.

"Since 1991, the Department of Athletics and Physical Education has presented an award to the year's outstanding male freshman athlete. In 1993 the Department of Athletics and Physical Education renamed the award to honor Joe Paterno," a statement from the school said. "In the spring of 2012, the Department of Athletics presented the award as it was originally created, honoring the year's outstanding male freshman athlete without Joe Paterno's name attached. The director of Athletics has now recommended and the University has approved the decision to remove permanently the Paterno name from the award. Past recipients will be informed of the decision to eliminate the name from the award."

Nike announced last week that a child care center at its Beaverton, Oregon, headquarters would no longer bear Paterno's name.

And a mural of Paterno in the gym of a Connecticut middle school will be painted over, the Connecticut Post reported.

"I can't see any other action that shows that great intersection of wanting to do better - introspection, remorse, pain, leadership, humanity, empathy - in its real sense," Dan Lebowitz, executive director of Northeastern University's Sport and Society program, told InsideHigherEd.com. "If they're hoping for football to return to prominence, wouldn't they want it also under a cleansed brand?"

[VULB#62]

bbttds I understand what you are saying conceptually.  But, what about the kids (not just the FB players)?  I'm talking about the kids who weren't even there when this went on.  Do they pay the price? How do you you punish the "university" for administrative stupidity, negligence and arrogance and still hold true to the values and obligations owed to these kids?  I understand your revulsion.  But to go in and slash and burn regardless of who is maimed and dismembered is just as irresponsible as doing nothing.  As pointed out many times and recently underscored by Emmert, this is not just a FB issue, but a university-wide issue because it went all the way up to the president.  The NCAA is just about athletics -- they can only go so far.   And to punish what could be generations of Pennsylvania kids for this is, in my mind, way over the top.

The athletic program needs to bleed significant cash (IMO - the real pain point) in the next couple of years.  Foundations need to be established and funded by athletic income to offset the lack of integrity.  And, like financial bankruptcy, moral bankruptcy calls for intense auditing over a long period to ensure that this doesn't recurr.  University training programs on ethics need to be mandated and audited. And, maybe, even a visual reminder needs to be established - no post seasons for any NCAA sport for 2012-13.

But we can't punish all the kids, some of whom were in grade school when these atrocities happened.  Universities are about the kids.

What I wrote, is not a death penalty because the kids get to play, but it will cost millions to comply with and sends a firm message.

[vu72]

I guess I wouldn't take it that far '62.  Are the kids really being punished if football is dropped for a few years? (death sentence)  To the contrary, the university will lose millions, and how better to punish the lack of oversight? Fire a few? And the kids?--they can go to one of over 3000 other institutions, many of which play football at the highest level.   Now, if one of those football players wanted to study at Penn State because PSU has some program no one else has, then that may be a different story, but highly unlikely.

It may actually be better for the student to graduate from another school because getting a degree from Penn State will carry lots of baggage and questions etc for quite some time.

[VULB#62]

This whole thing is gonna be complicated.  Saw this article today in USAToday: NCAA action against Penn State might be limited

Some quick quotes from it relative to jurisdiction:

"Though the NCAA's president says all options will be considered, college sports' governing body may have few options when it comes to punishing Penn State's football program in the wake of its child sex abuse scandal, according to those who have defended and helped sanction NCAA rule breakers.

Former NCAA infractions committee chairmen and investigators condemn what happened at Penn State according to the report by former FBI director Louis Freeh — Penn State senior leaders concealing information that could have stopped Jerry Sandusky from sexually abusing children. But they say one significant challenge looms for the NCAA: finding an NCAA rules violation.

"That's the problem — there isn't one," said David Swank, a former chair of the infractions committee that acts as judge and jury in NCAA investigations."

Of course, there is more discussion in the article.  It's virgin territory. There are no precedents.  Even loss of institutional control, which we posters have hung our opinions for NCAA action on, was always in the past tied to NCAA rules infractions as the article points out. This case does not fit that model.

It's going to be very interesting regardless of which way the NCAA decides to go.

[bbtds]

The director of Athletics has now recommended and the University has approved the decision to remove permanently the Paterno name from the award. Past recipients will be informed of the decision to eliminate the name from the award."

Hadn't the Big Ten removed Paterno's name from the football championship trophy even before the first Big Ten football championship took place?

As far as the NCAA punishing PSU in some way, if they can't give PSU the death penalty in football then I feel there must be something done monetarily to punish PSU where it really hurts with money being the real reason behind the cover up and deceit on the part of the administrators.

[VULB#62]

      AND SO IT CONTINUES ...........

Boston Globe 7/18 article, Sandusky Fallout Continues, assembled from the wire services:  Selected quotes

"Five days after the former assistant football coach was arrested in November, the US Department of Education launched an investigation into Penn State's compliance with the Clery Act, which requires prompt public alerts of safety threats, annual disclosure of crime statistics, and other steps to protect those on campus."

The Clery Act, signed into law in 1990, was named for Jeanne Clery, who was raped, tortured, and murdered in 1986 in her dorm room at Lehigh University in Pennsylvania. The law is upheld by the education department's financial aid office because the ultimate penalty is loss of federal aid funding.

At the heart of the Penn State case is this question: When university officials were alerted to Sandusky's behavior, did they meet legal requirements for documenting those incidents and publicly announcing any threats?"

As of November, Penn State's Clery Act policy was still in draft form [note:  Clery signed into law in 1990!! ] and had not been formally implemented. Although Penn State offered Clery Act training to employees starting in 2007, the athletic department opted not to participate.

''The football program, in particular, opted out of most of the University's Clery Act, sexual abuse awareness and summer camp  [note: when hundreds of underage kids are on campus] procedures training,'' the report read. ''The Athletic Department was perceived by many in the Penn State community as 'an island,' where staff members lived by their own rules.''

[VULB#62]

The director of Athletics has now recommended and the University has approved the decision to remove permanently the Paterno name from the award. Past recipients will be informed of the decision to eliminate the name from the award."

Hadn't the Big Ten removed Paterno's name from the football championship trophy even before the first Big Ten football championship took place?

Point of clarification.  The quote cited refers to Brown University (Paterno's alma mater) removing the name from their award to the outstanding freshman male athlete.

But to add to that from the same Boston Globe article quoted below:

"Additionally, Brown University removed Paterno's name from its head football coaching position [note:  apparently at Brown the HFC position is like a named chair ] and a student award and is reviewing whether to remove him from the Brown Athletic Hall of Fame. Paterno graduated from Brown in 1950."

[bbtds]

The director of Athletics has now recommended and the University has approved the decision to remove permanently the Paterno name from the award. Past recipients will be informed of the decision to eliminate the name from the award."

Hadn't the Big Ten removed Paterno's name from the football championship trophy even before the first Big Ten football championship took place?

Point of clarification.  The quote cited refers to Brown University (Paterno's alma mater) removing the name from their award to the outstanding freshman male athlete.

But to add to that from the same Boston Globe article quoted below:

"Additionally, Brown University removed Paterno's name from its head football coaching position [note:  apparently at Brown the HFC position is like a named chair ] and a student award and is reviewing whether to remove him from the Brown Athletic Hall of Fame. Paterno graduated from Brown in 1950."

Sorry about that. The quote was refering to the Brown University decision to remove Paterno's name from their male freshman athlete award. Then I remembered that the Big Ten had removed Paterno's name from the football championship trophy just before the Big Ten football championship game here in Indy.