Valpo vs. Youngstown St.

[vusupporter]

This week's Sports Network FCS ranking update:

YSU Penguins moved from #13 to #6 and received 7 first place votes for 2,988 points.

Dayton received 12 points; Duquesne got 7 points; SDU 2 and Drake 1.  Drake takes on #3 Montana State Saturday and will not receive any points from that point on.  Dayton and Duquesne go at each other - one will probably drop out of the poll.

Didn't know this before but Paul Oren is a Pioneer voting representative.

Do you have a link to the Sports Network FCS ranking?  Thanks!

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/misc/tsn-div-1aa-poll.htm

[milanmiracle]

On the same note, you can rewatch the Youngstown State vs. Pitt game on watch ESPN app. If you haven't seen YSU play, I think it's worth watching at least some of it. If watching them against Pitt scares anybody else as much as it does me...

With all 11 starters on offense returning, and the D being able to control the line of scrimmage...I really don't know how they're going to lose this year.

[KilrpengWin]

Greetings from Y-town. I've read all the posts on topics about this weeks game with the "guins. I must admit I am a little dismayed at the attitude of most fans here!  I would think that you would welcome the opportunity, as well as the payday.  YSU has played major FBS schools for several years now, and most times resulting in an a$$ whipping. Specifically. the last two times we played Pitt. No one ever blinked, and I have NEVER heard one soul on any penguin forum say we shouldn't schedule these schools. Win or lose, the game day atmosphere, exposure, and experience these kids get out of it are well worth it. As for your concerns for the safety of the players, Has anyone ever really been maimed in the game against Youngstown? If so then tell me, as I am ignorant of that fact. As for running up the score? I don't think the coach will do that. If we are fortunate to be in the lead by a few TD's, you can't very well put in a second or third team player and tell him not to score?!? 'specially if he sits on the bench all year. Anyway, good luck and play safe crusaders..........

[sectionee]

I agree with our YSU friend. This college athletics not pop Warner. There should be no mercy. I don't even think YSU should put in their bench guys until Valpo does. It is laughable that there has been discussion about players possibly getting hurt, it's football. It is a barbaric sport and every player knows the risk. These guys want to play YSU and see how they stack up against bigger players, and if they didn't want to compete I would hope Coach would cut them loose. Keep playing YSU, keep getting whipped, learn from it.

[valpotx]

I have always been a strong supporter of 'scheduling up' in all of our sports.  It has done wonders for our baseball program to play top teams over the last few years, and makes it much easier to compete within conference after playing that level of team (Arkansas, Hawaii, etc).  Though football is a bit different in not being scholarship, I think that it is a great selling point to kids to say that they will play the big boys of their division.  It isn't like this is an 18 year old HS team playing a 12 year old middle school team, they shouldn't get any more injured than a normal game just because they are on scholarships...

[milanmiracle]

Greetings from Y-town. I've read all the posts on topics about this weeks game with the "guins. I must admit I am a little dismayed at the attitude of most fans here!  I would think that you would welcome the opportunity, as well as the payday.  YSU has played major FBS schools for several years now, and most times resulting in an a$$ whipping. Specifically. the last two times we played Pitt. No one ever blinked, and I have NEVER heard one soul on any penguin forum say we shouldn't schedule these schools. Win or lose, the game day atmosphere, exposure, and experience these kids get out of it are well worth it. As for your concerns for the safety of the players, Has anyone ever really been maimed in the game against Youngstown? If so then tell me, as I am ignorant of that fact. As for running up the score? I don't think the coach will do that. If we are fortunate to be in the lead by a few TD's, you can't very well put in a second or third team player and tell him not to score?!? 'specially if he sits on the bench all year. Anyway, good luck and play safe crusaders..........

I am a little dismayed anybody from YSU thinks this game is a good idea. 77-13 and that was being nice. It was 63-0 at half and 35-0 at the end of the 1st quarter. There were school records for points scored in a quarter and points scored in a half. Youngstown scored touchdowns on 9 straight posessions, and the only thing that stopped them from scoring touchdowns in 11 straight possessions was getting the ball back with 0:25 left in the half. YSU then scored touchdowns on their next 2 possessions. The Pitt A$$ kicking you were refering to was 43-0 at the end of the game not at the beginning of the second quarter.

Somebody mentioned that this isn't 18 year old high school kids playing 12 year old pop warner kids, and that's very true. They're the same age playing the same sport. However I would venture to say that it's more like a high school team vs. a D1 college team. Valpo won 2 games in 3 years and that includes losing to a D3 school. While on paper I am techinally bigger than Mike Tyson, I certainly wouldn't want to get in a ring with him, even now. I highly doubt Valpo U could beat Cardinal Mooney, yet alone YSU.

[VULB#62]

Most recent Valpo Coaches Show on YouTube discusses upcoming YSU game and reasons for scheduling FCS scholarship schools.



The Valpo Coaches Show 9|03|12

[VULB#62]

I am a little dismayed anybody from YSU thinks this game is a good idea. 77-13 and that was being nice. It was 63-0 at half and 35-0 at the end of the 1st quarter.

The unfortunate thing about geography is that we are smack dab in the middle of MVFC territory.  At this point in the reestablishment of a strong VU football program, I'd much prefer scheduling NEC or Patriot teams (programs with fewer scholarships) to start the climb up.  Duquesne, in our case is a good match for the program to get it's experience under fire.  Robert Morris is another from the western PA area we should have on our schedule.  Show that we can compete against NEC and Patriot teams and then take on the bigger challenges of OVFC, MVFC and Big Sky.  Of course the biggies can pay out guarantees that help underwrite the program while the NEC and Patriot can't.  Also in that future I refer to, I'd like to see a resumption of games with Indiana State (it'll be like the old ICC days).

[covufan]

I am a little dismayed anybody from YSU thinks this game is a good idea. 77-13 and that was being nice. It was 63-0 at half and 35-0 at the end of the 1st quarter.

The unfortunate thing about geography is that we are smack dab in the middle of MVFC territory.  At this point in the reestablishment of a strong VU football program, I'd much prefer scheduling NEC or Patriot teams (programs with fewer scholarships) to start the climb up.  Duquesne, in our case is a good match for the program to get it's experience under fire.  Robert Morris is another from the western PA area we should have on our schedule.  Show that we can compete against NEC and Patriot teams and then take on the bigger challenges of OVFC, MVFC and Big Sky.  Of course the biggies can pay out guarantees that help underwrite the program while the NEC and Patriot can't.  Also in that future I refer to, I'd like to see a resumption of games with Indiana State (it'll be like the old ICC days).

I tend to agree.  Although Indiana St. is no longer the I-AA (FCS) pushover in the MVFC.  They only lost to IU by 7, in Bloomington.  If $$ were not an issue, I'd be scheduling only FCS programs, and those from NEC, Patriot and SWAC.  I'd probably look to those areas of the country where we have been recruiting (letting some players return home once in awhile) and those we'd like to recruit better - and look for an NEC, Patriot or SWAC team to schedule.

[covufan]

I am a little dismayed anybody from YSU thinks this game is a good idea. 77-13 and that was being nice. It was 63-0 at half and 35-0 at the end of the 1st quarter.

The unfortunate thing about geography is that we are smack dab in the middle of MVFC territory.  At this point in the reestablishment of a strong VU football program, I'd much prefer scheduling NEC or Patriot teams (programs with fewer scholarships) to start the climb up.  Duquesne, in our case is a good match for the program to get it's experience under fire.  Robert Morris is another from the western PA area we should have on our schedule.  Show that we can compete against NEC and Patriot teams and then take on the bigger challenges of OVFC, MVFC and Big Sky.  Of course the biggies can pay out guarantees that help underwrite the program while the NEC and Patriot can't.  Also in that future I refer to, I'd like to see a resumption of games with Indiana State (it'll be like the old ICC days).

I tend to agree.  Although Indiana St. is no longer the I-AA (FCS) pushover in the MVFC.  They only lost to IU by 7, in Bloomington.  If $$ were not an issue, I'd be scheduling only FCS programs, and those from NEC, Patriot and SWAC.  I'd probably look to those areas of the country where we have been recruiting (letting some players return home once in awhile) and those we'd like to recruit better - and look for an NEC, Patriot or SWAC team to schedule.

Oh, and until the VU football program is a little better, I'd focus on the bottom half of these conferences.  I'd also sell the opponents coming to Valpo as a chance to be playing in the greater Chicago area - where I'm sure most schools would have a significant alumni base.

[KilrpengWin]

`It's clear here that few Crusader fans relish their team playing YSU for several reasons. One of you posters replied that on paper you were the same size as Mike Tyson but wouldn't want to get in a ring with him? (probably afraid to lose an ear)  But seriously, does anyone know, or anyone there asked any of the players? From my knowledge, there is no YSU player who doesn't WANT the opportunity to play a BIGGER school. Too bad you can't take a poll of athletes, and only get their reaction ??

[VULB#62]

{ "It's clear here that few Crusader fans relish their team playing YSU for several reasons. One of you posters replied that on paper you were the same size as Mike Tyson but wouldn't want to get in a ring with him? (probably afraid to lose an ear)   But seriously, does anyone know, or anyone there asked any of the players? From my knowledge, there is no YSU player who doesn't WANT the opportunity to play a BIGGER school. Too bad you can't take a poll of athletes, and only get their reaction ??" }

I'm sure they want to play YSU because they get to go on that field in front of 20,000 spectators and play against scholarship athletes.  They know they'll get beat but they want that experience.  And there's something about the optimism of youth too.  Who could blame them.

Most of us, on the other hand, are looking at a bigger picture.  Valpo is trying to dig itself out of a very deep winless hole and a recent history of less than mediocrity (2-32 since 2009, 10-46 since 2007) while playing at a level two FCS tiers below YSU (the middle tier being the NEC and Patriot League who have limited their scholarship levels to less than what is available in the MVFC). In those past seasons we've lost to D-II and D-III teams and NAIA teams, which technically are at levels below us. YSU goes into FBS territory to test itself against the biggies. It does this knowing it competes well.  And your players learn something from the experience that translates to better performance when they get back to MVFC action.  This is not a test for Valpo.  What do the players learn when they are crushed in all phases of the game, defeated on just about every play, unable to use their skills because they are facing overwhelming talent?  They may 'learn' or begin to believe that they're just not very good -- just the opposite of what a rebuilding program needs.  No, this game is not a progressive building block  -- at least not yet.

For VU at this critical rebuilding juncture, yes, we need to challenge ourselves, but first at a level of competition we realistically aspire to.  It's the crawl, walk, run axiom.  We are at crawl.  If we were a San Diego or a Dayton, it would not be as crucial and would make more sense, but we are digging out of that deep hole and the confidence factor in rebuilding is an issue. As an example, this season Marist from our league beat Bryant (NEC) this past weekend, plays Bucknell of the Patriot League at home and then challenges Columbia of the Ivy League -- these are great challenges at a reasonable level.  We've got Duquesne (NEC) next week, which is a good challenge for us.  Robert Morris (PA) would be another good one for us.  Once we climb over the edge of this hole we're in, then it really makes sense to go back to MVFC and OVFC teams again to begin the process of testing ourselves.  But not right now.  Give us a couple of years of rebuilding and then we'll see.

Of course much of this is moot because the contracts were signed years ago.  Then VU won a few games and YSU was losing.  Clearly both are not the same programs today.

[milanmiracle]

{ "It's clear here that few Crusader fans relish their team playing YSU for several reasons. One of you posters replied that on paper you were the same size as Mike Tyson but wouldn't want to get in a ring with him? (probably afraid to lose an ear)   But seriously, does anyone know, or anyone there asked any of the players? From my knowledge, there is no YSU player who doesn't WANT the opportunity to play a BIGGER school. Too bad you can't take a poll of athletes, and only get their reaction ??" }

I'm sure they want to play YSU because they get to go on that field in front of 20,000 spectators and play against scholarship athletes.  They know they'll get beat but they want that experience.  And there's something about the optimism of youth too.  Who could blame them.

Most of us, on the other hand, are looking at a bigger picture.  Valpo is trying to dig itself out of a very deep winless hole and a recent history of less than mediocrity (2-32 since 2009, 10-46 since 2007) while playing at a level two FCS tiers below YSU (the middle tier being the NEC and Patriot League who have limited their scholarship levels to less than what is available in the MVFC). In those past seasons we've lost to D-II and D-III teams and NAIA teams, which technically are at levels below us. YSU goes into FBS territory to test itself against the biggies. It does this knowing it competes well.  And your players learn something from the experience that translates to better performance when they get back to MVFC action.  This is not a test for Valpo.  What do the players learn when they are crushed in all phases of the game, defeated on just about every play, unable to use their skills because they are facing overwhelming talent?  They may 'learn' or begin to believe that they're just not very good -- just the opposite of what a rebuilding program needs.  No, this game is not a progressive building block  -- at least not yet.

For VU at this critical rebuilding juncture, yes, we need to challenge ourselves, but first at a level of competition we realistically aspire to.  It's the crawl, walk, run axiom.  We are at crawl.  If we were a San Diego or a Dayton, it would not be as crucial and would make more sense, but we are digging out of that deep hole and the confidence factor in rebuilding is an issue. As an example, this season Marist from our league beat Bryant (NEC) this past weekend, plays Bucknell of the Patriot League at home and then challenges Columbia of the Ivy League -- these are great challenges at a reasonable level.  We've got Duquesne (NEC) next week, which is a good challenge for us.  Robert Morris (PA) would be another good one for us.  Once we climb over the edge of this hole we're in, then it really makes sense to go back to MVFC and OVFC teams again to begin the process of testing ourselves.  But not right now.  Give us a couple of years of rebuilding and then we'll see.

Of course much of this is moot because the contracts were signed years ago.  Then VU won a few games and YSU was losing.  Clearly both are not the same programs today.

Very well said!

[setshot]

Good grief! We have already spent years trying to dig ourselves out of a hole. Isn't it about time to fill in the hole,plant our feet firmly on the ground and DROP FOOTBALL!

[historyman]

Quote from: setshot on Today at 07:08:53 PM

Good grief! We have already spent years trying to dig ourselves out of a hole. Isn't it about time to fill in the hole,plant our feet firmly on the ground and DROP FOOTBALL!

No!

You're just like the reporter from channel 19 in Peoria, no matter how many times you ask the question that doesn't change the answer. Alec Peters may not go to Illinois State and Valpo is not going to drop football. They've gone this far. Why drop football now when some progress is being made?

[sectionee]

Progress=almost winning a game. Valpo won't drop football because it is a money maker. Hopefully they can get back to winning multiple games this year. A college campus is better when football is present and successful.

[VULB#62]

Good grief! We have already spent years trying to dig ourselves out of a hole. Isn't it about time to fill in the hole,plant our feet firmly on the ground and DROP FOOTBALL!

No friggin way ss.  There is a 92 year history that  says no.  Carlson has the mentality, dedication, organization, management and communication style, and big picture concept to move this program forward. He needs the administration to make a financial commitment to upgrade facilities and staff (which translates to even better recruiting results) that is equal to the other programs we compete against.  I continually monitor the other PFL programs and especially the newer ones.  The facilities and the commitment dollars are so far ahead of VU at this point it is ridiculous  (check out the new or expanded stadiums at Jacksonville, Campbell and Mercer), but I believe Mark will direct more $$ toward FB because it truly has the potential to be a much better program due ot the leadership that's in place and the young talent that has enrolled.

Case in point.  We scheduled YSU for two games back when they were suffering losing seasons.  At the time we were winning 3 and 5 games a season (an analysis of the wins showed that they were largely non-conference, D-III wins).  But in the interim YSU committed $$ to facilities (big bucks actually) and the other intangibles. By 2011 and 2012 they are pushing Michigan State and beating Pitt and were back to the Tressel years level.  But since the contract signing VU spiraled further downward.  Now we are just beginning to rebuild.  The previous game against STJ was a 50-7 loss.  Last Thursday we  should have won, but because of youthful inexperience we gave up the winning TD with less than 2 minutes to play.  It's coming.  We will be better.  For a fact, the future schedule will no longer include D-III teams. Our program will be competitive at the lower end of FCS.   We will play Patriot, NEC and possibly Ivy League teams regularly.  Once we get past YSU on Saturday, I think you'll see much tighter games and a couple of wins this year.  Duquesne has a 36 scholarship limit.  But we could still beat them on our turf next week.  Next year, we'll be even more competitive against a MVFC team and you might even see a .500 or better record overall.  It's taken longer than expected to turn this thing around, but it is happening.

[TC28]

Good grief! We have already spent years trying to dig ourselves out of a hole. Isn't it about time to fill in the hole,plant our feet firmly on the ground and DROP FOOTBALL!

No friggin way ss.  There is a 92 year history that  says no.  Carlson has the mentality, dedication, organization, management and communication style, and big picture concept to move this program forward. He needs the administration to make a financial commitment to upgrade facilities and staff (which translates to even better recruiting results) that is equal to the other programs we compete against.  I continually monitor the other PFL programs and especially the newer ones.  The facilities and the commitment dollars are so far ahead of VU at this point it is ridiculous  (check out the new or expanded stadiums at Jacksonville, Campbell and Mercer), but I believe Mark will direct more $$ toward FB because it truly has the potential to be a much better program due ot the leadership that's in place and the young talent that has enrolled.

Case in point.  We scheduled YSU for two games back when they were suffering losing seasons.  At the time we were winning 3 and 5 games a season (an analysis of the wins showed that they were largely non-conference, D-III wins).  But in the interim YSU committed $$ to facilities (big bucks actually) and the other intangibles. By 2011 and 2012 they are pushing Michigan State and beating Pitt and were back to the Tressel years level.  But since the contract signing VU spiraled further downward.  Now we are just beginning to rebuild.  The previous game against STJ was a 50-7 loss.  Last Thursday we  should have won, but because of youthful inexperience we gave up the winning TD with less than 2 minutes to play.  It's coming.  We will be better.  For a fact, the future schedule will no longer include D-III teams. Our program will be competitive at the lower end of FCS.   We will play Patriot, NEC and possibly Ivy League teams regularly.  Once we get past YSU on Saturday, I think you'll see much tighter games and a couple of wins this year.  Duquesne has a 36 scholarship limit.  But we could still beat them on our turf next week.  Next year, we'll be even more competitive against a MVFC team and you might even see a .500 or better record overall.  It's taken longer than expected to turn this thing around, but it is happening.

St. Joe has a 36 scholarship limit as well. "Progress=almost winning a game" That is progress if you actually see how far we've come. 50-7 blowout last year with, if I remember correctly,  St Joe's 3rd string QB at the helm to an immature team not finishing a game in the last 24 seconds.

The program is on the rise. Coach Carlson is turning the program around. Just think, a few years ago, players used to have to pay for their own gear (shoes, shorts, shirts, gloves, etc.), recruits had to pay their own way on visits, we had trash bags for jerseys, and the biggest improvement is they finally got rid of those brown and white two toned socks! The university is finally pumping some money into the program and it will pay out. It just takes time and support. Carlson is the best head football coach that this university has had in a long time. There are reasons that Coach Horne and Coach Adams are now at the high school level.

[willy]

Good grief! We have already spent years trying to dig ourselves out of a hole. Isn't it about time to fill in the hole,plant our feet firmly on the ground and DROP FOOTBALL!

This comment is ridiculous, insulting, and disrespectful to all the young men that have ever put on the Valpo jersey in 92 years.  I just started following Valpo football and I've read about the history and thats exactly what it is PAST history. I personally know how hard the current team is working to turn this thing around and they are!  Last years loss to St Joes was by 43 points.  This year we lost by 2 in the last 24 seconds.  I know St joes saw the improvement and would tell you they were lucky to get out of brown field with a W.  I agree with VULB#62 about the facilities.  Go on the PFL website and check out the the other conference members stadiums.  Valpo is way behind and needs to step it up.  For Pete's sake we have a Div.1 track team and no track!!!!!  Oh, and one last thing,for all of you that like to post on here bashing football, be part of the solution not part of the problem!!!

[78crusader]

Let's wait until Sept 20 when the Master Plan is rolled out and see what it says about upgraded athletic facilities.  Paul

[crusaderjoe]

Scholarship or not, competitive or not, VU has been an FCS program for nearly 20 years now.  The days of "crawling" as to scheduling are over.  I personally would hope that the AD continues to schedule these types of games in the future, maybe not every year, but every couple of years, particularly now that the PFL has its bid.  If VU ever makes the FCS tournament and we end up drawing a powerhouse school like YSU, we're not going to be able to cower in the corner of the room and curl up in the fetal position then knowing that their up next.  So why should we do that with scheduling now?

The AD got this one right.

[willy]

Check out Coach Carlsons blog as to why we play these games.




http://blogs.valpo.edu/football/

[setshot]

Why think small when scheduling out of conference opponents? Hell, nearby Savannah State picked-up over 400K by playing OSU last week. They lost 83-0, but got BIG bucks. This week Savannah State plays Florida State. FSU favored by an incredible 70pts. The payout for SSU is better than 500K. Is itworth it to SSU? Rep. wise - NO. Monetarily - ABSOLUTELY! Maybe USC or UGA will give Valpo a game. It won't be a home and home,but look at the bucks we could make. Rather lose to USC by 70pts. and make big bucks,than lose to YSU by 50 pts. and earn practically nothing.Think about it. GO SAVANNAH STATE!

[VULB#62]

Scholarship or not, competitive or not, VU has been an FCS program for nearly 20 years now.  The days of "crawling" as to scheduling are over.  I personally would hope that the AD continues to schedule these types of games in the future, maybe not every year, but every couple of years, particularly now that the PFL has its bid.  If VU ever makes the FCS tournament and we end up drawing a powerhouse school like YSU, we're not going to be able to cower in the corner of the room and curl up in the fetal position then knowing that their up next.  So why should we do that with scheduling now?

The AD got this one right.

My quote from back on 9/5: " It's coming.  We will be better.  For a fact, the future schedule will no longer include D-III teams. Our program will be competitive at the lower end of FCS.   We will play Patriot, NEC and possibly Ivy League teams regularly."

I will add to that that in addition to Patriot, NEC and possibly Ivy teams, every year going forward there will be one game against an FCS fully scholarshiped program. You can take that to the bank.   

[VULB#62]

Check out Coach Carlsons blog as to why we play these games.

http://blogs.valpo.edu/football/

Glad Coach C let the cats out of the bag on the MVC. OVC, Big Sky scheduling. Knew that was coming.  They'll all be road games, but the value is great.  The biggest problem is that these signed contracts at this point in time cannot anticipate how good (or how bad) the opponent will be years from now (YSU is a great example -- they were down at contract time and now look at them).  But we expect to improve each year and close the gap each year, so doing this makes sense.  In the past 10 years I don't think Mark ever scheduled this aggressively.  It's a clear indicator of administrative commitment.  Now, after we see the campus plan on September 20th we'll see what will be the future Brown Field and that too will be an indicator.