Valpo vs. USD

[crusadermoe]

To the question of whether we are seeing progress:
If you trust the comparisons of this year vs. last year in St Joe and Duchesne games, you can argue there is progress.
Unfortunately, if we don't show solid progress in Pioneer results, I think we will all be deflated.   San Diego seems an equal result.

[usc4valpo]

What kind of unwritten rules are there in football? I grew up with baseball as my primary sport and those debates are interesting to talk about... I ask that question to ask this one: at what score or in what scenarios do you "call off the dogs?" I didn't follow the game actively because I was at another event, but I saw in the box score that San Diego had a late 2nd quarter drive, seemed to run a 2-minute offense, stopped the clock with a late timeout to get a field goal in before halftime to make it 37-0. Obviously from our perspective, it'd be easy to say that the game was already over by then. I'm sure this situation isn't even close to the magnitude of Jacksonville doing it during its blowout 2 years ago, but the small similarities to that incident came to my mind when I saw the final.

In football I think the first half is fair game. The coach of the better team is still trying to coach skills and play execution. For the Valpo USD game, both teams should be evenly matched - no scholarships, same opportunities for recruiting and coaching, etc. I remember when Notre Dame played SMU just after SMU came off the "death penalty". SMU was undermanned, did not have full complement of scholarships, no team the previous year, etc. In that case calling off the dogs might be a little different. Even in the the Valpo-USD game, if USD puts in second and third teamers, each of them should play their hardest, and if they still score, it is on Valpo not USD. Even a second or third team QB should get a chance for a few passes, but not downfield. However, if the QB and recievers are well coached, and the defense makes mistakes and the receivers and QB react properly, it will look as though the team is running up the score, when actually they are more prepared and reacted as they were coached. Hopefully, we'll be in that position one day.

The best thing you can do in these situations is not allow yourself to get behind like 34-0 in the first place.  Perhaps they were getting practice for their kicker - who knows.  But the problem is why these guys keep getting hammered.

[willy]

Everyone seemed to rip Tom Horne 8-10 years ago.    But the guy did win titles in 2000 and 2004 if I recall....maybe wrong years.   And we actually beat San Diego a couple of times in those years.   

Arghhhhhh!  I watched the entire game on the USD internet hook-up.  14-51.  Enough dumb (but aggressive, I must admit)  errors to seal the coffin very early.  Basic, fundamental football ------- not.  I have to believe that all the kids on the field are fairly comparable (height, weight, speed).  What's causing these implosions?   I checked Wofford out for grins.  1536 students and only 736 males on campus.  They are #7 FCS at 3-0 and their stadium averages 10K per game.  They are scholarship FCS, but they are 1/2 the size of Valpo.  They have great baseball and could probably hang with us in mens basketball for 3/4ers of a game.  The point I'm trying to make is that this little school has a very high profile due to athletics that boosts the entire university's profile nationally.  For them it's FB,  but their other sports are extremely competitive (see ESPN crawler in the Winter -- they're there maybe because they are competitive in the Fall).  Valpo has most of it's eggs in the basketball basket, but as most of us agree, without a dance bid, regular season titles are not enough to put VU in the limelight.  So, in the Fall, when peoples' attention swing to college athletics, VU as a D-I program, needs to project a competitive profile in the national media.

BTW, I hate the current no-huddle, spread 'em out, empty backfield offenses that all the copy-cat college programs are running these days.

But, then, I am dating myself.   

I agree with you VULB#62! I'm not a fan of the spread offense either, unless you can have some sort of balance between the run and the pass.  We had 34 yards rushing against USD.  Valpo needs to improve that if they even want to come close to sniffing a victory this year.

[Coach DJ]

FCS "non scholarship" survival / 101...first you Recruit and then you Retain!  There are a lot of things VU Football can do to recruit solid recruits...first is Upgrade the locker room...as a parent that took many Official and Un-Official visits VU locker room does not come close to competing.  Get rid of the over painted conventional lockers an install "cubbies" like every other football teams (Pro and College)...real cheap upgrade, but important to the players!  May have staff take trip to other team facilities (BCS) and get some cheap inexpensive ideas...

[VULB#62]

FCS "non scholarship" survival / 101...first you Recruit and then you Retain!  There are a lot of things VU Football can do to recruit solid recruits...first is Upgrade the locker room...as a parent that took many Official and Un-Official visits VU locker room does not come close to competing.  Get rid of the over painted conventional lockers an install "cubbies" like every other football teams (Pro and College)...real cheap upgrade, but important to the players!  May have staff take trip to other team facilities (BCS) and get some cheap inexpensive ideas...

Welcome aboard CoachDJ. Can't agree more.  Not having seen the locker facilities (I'm in New England and well past taking a kid on a recruiting trip), I've got to agree that anything that improves the football environment, regardless how simple, needs to be done.  If you have the time to go back in various strings regarding FB and you'll see recurrent themes among the posters regarding recruiting and retention as well as facilities.  You'll also see my posts on facilities (I am kind of a one-trick pony in that regard) wherever I can justify them.  IMO kids and parents look for visible signs of program commitment in selecting a college where their son would play football. Some might disagree, but aside from the academics (which Valpo certainly provides) what besides facilities and winning attract recruits? And to win, the recruit and retain component is paramount.  So we are back to facilities and  I am a believer in the "if you build it, they will come" approach to program development.

[milanmiracle]

FCS "non scholarship" survival / 101...first you Recruit and then you Retain!  There are a lot of things VU Football can do to recruit solid recruits...first is Upgrade the locker room...as a parent that took many Official and Un-Official visits VU locker room does not come close to competing.  Get rid of the over painted conventional lockers an install "cubbies" like every other football teams (Pro and College)...real cheap upgrade, but important to the players!  May have staff take trip to other team facilities (BCS) and get some cheap inexpensive ideas...

I think this is over the top for Valpo, who clearly doesn't place the same priority on football as YSU, but it illustrates what you are talking about.

http://www.ysusports.com/sports/fball/2011-12/files/locker-room

[valpotx]

Even we had 'cubbies' for our baseball lockers in the clubhouse my last few years of ball at Valpo.  Definitely much better than the old-school looking ones the football program still has

[milanmiracle]

FCS "non scholarship" survival / 101...first you Recruit and then you Retain!  There are a lot of things VU Football can do to recruit solid recruits...first is Upgrade the locker room...as a parent that took many Official and Un-Official visits VU locker room does not come close to competing.  Get rid of the over painted conventional lockers an install "cubbies" like every other football teams (Pro and College)...real cheap upgrade, but important to the players!  May have staff take trip to other team facilities (BCS) and get some cheap inexpensive ideas...

Welcome aboard CoachDJ. Can't agree more.  Not having seen the locker facilities (I'm in New England and well past taking a kid on a recruiting trip), I've got to agree that anything that improves the football environment, regardless how simple, needs to be done.  If you have the time to go back in various strings regarding FB and you'll see recurrent themes among the posters regarding recruiting and retention as well as facilities.  You'll also see my posts on facilities (I am kind of a one-trick pony in that regard) wherever I can justify them.  IMO kids and parents look for visible signs of program commitment in selecting a college where their son would play football. Some might disagree, but aside from the academics (which Valpo certainly provides) what besides facilities and winning attract recruits? And to win, the recruit and retain component is paramount.  So we are back to facilities and  I am a believer in the "if you build it, they will come" approach to program development.

I am right there with you! Build something better than they have now. Heck, some of the Duneland teams have better facilities than Valpo U. Merrillville comes to mind, as does Michigan City. Actually, if Valpo wants a blueprint...go to City. It's not expensive to recreate that, and it would certainly help create a "college" atmosphere. Yes, their stadium is small, but it's a brick and mortar facility and would be a nice compliment to the campus.

[VULB#62]

FCS "non scholarship" survival / 101...first you Recruit and then you Retain!  There are a lot of things VU Football can do to recruit solid recruits...first is Upgrade the locker room...as a parent that took many Official and Un-Official visits VU locker room does not come close to competing.  Get rid of the over painted conventional lockers an install "cubbies" like every other football teams (Pro and College)...real cheap upgrade, but important to the players!  May have staff take trip to other team facilities (BCS) and get some cheap inexpensive ideas...

I think this is over the top for Valpo, who clearly doesn't place the same priority on football as YSU, but it illustrates what you are talking about.

http://www.ysusports.com/sports/fball/2011-12/files/locker-room

Hmmmmm, looks a lot like the walk-in closet in my master bedroom except the colors are brown and gold   

[usc4valpo]

I am afraid to ask...but what do the facilities and locker room look like?  Is it that behind other schools in the Pioneer?

Also, if they are that bad, why does Valpo even try to have football?  Where is the committment?  It sounds like the university provides football just to say they have football.

[VULB#62]

USC4valpo:     CoachDJ noted they were the old fashion steel ones (probably  12"-16" wide and 6' tall?) that have been painted over several times.  Other than that, I have no additional information.  I'd like to see the team facilities myself if/when I get on campus again so I can make a better assessment.  I can refer you to Campbell's new field house and stadium and their current campaign to further expand it as well as the new football complex being built at Mercer for starters:

http://issuu.com/campbelluniversity/docs/football-campaign?mode=embed&documentId=081009180153-c020d9b6ec8b4491b3f104011d38608a&layout=grey

http://www.mercer.edu/football/renderings/


How do we help correct the situation?  Obviously we help by donating.  But part of the donation problem is that we are asked to give to athletic accounts without seeing where the money is going.  Kinda like dropping money down a dark well.  Coach Carlson has sent out an appeal for donations for two specific items:  funding of two additional intern coaching positions and money to support recruiting (expenses for both coaches ' and recruits' travel).  That's important, but there is more to be done as witnessed by CoachDJ's post regarding, "hey, once they get on campus (either as a recruit or a player) what can we show them to cement the deal, show commitment and retain them as players?" He is right.  How much would it cost to totally upgrade the football locker room?  $50,000?  OK, let's put out an appeal to all football alums to "buy a locker."  Each locker will have a small plaque somewhere recognizing the alum and the years he played at Valpo.  Besides renovating the locker room, it would do two things: it would 1) link the current program to tradition and honor the VU football past and 2) it would tie football alums tangibly to the program today.  Need more weights for training, a "buy a dumbell" campaign seems in order. You get my point.  I'd give $XXX.00 or $XXXX.00 dollars if I knew exactly what it is buying.  I'm sure a lot of you would too.

[valporun]

If I remember correctly, there are ways that you can donate to Valpo Athletics to a specific program, even if it goes to that program's general fund. It is still money that goes to that sport's needs. I bet if you e-mailed or called Coach Carlson, he'd be welcome to doing a specific donation project like the locker room upgrade idea proposed. I think most coaches would rather have the one-on-one donation interaction with the donor this way, than just having the AD's secretary come to their office with a check from a donor, or recognition of a check received, so the coach knows how much money is now in their account/budget.

[VULB#62]

Gotta propose that (or something like it) to Coach C.

[usc4valpo]

Sorry, but if the university has to depend on alumni funds to raise an extra $50K for a decent locker room, we have problems keeping a Div 1 team.

[milanmiracle]

Sorry, but if the university has to depend on alumni funds to raise an extra $50K for a decent locker room, we have problems keeping a Div 1 team.

Yep, gotta agree with you on that one. When you're not offering scholarships you should be able to afford a decent locker room and equipment. I was pretty annoyed when somebody said Valpo had to take the YSU beating so the players didnt have to buy their own shoes and gloves. If you're going to have a D1 team, even non scholarship, you should at least pretend you are a D1 program.

[Coach DJ]

Here's pictures of the Football locker Room...

[crusadermoe]

What?.....no medicine balls and everything dusty with talcum powder?   
This looks palatial vs. my day at VU.   Did anyone ever go into the "swiming locker room" lockers on way to the pool inside the ARC?     It was right out of the late 40s and 50s.     

[historyman]

Quote from: crusadermoe on October 09, 2012, 02:13:56 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It was right out of the late 40s and 50s.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I can attest to the fact the swimming pool lockers have been there since the 60's or earlier.

[VULB#62]

Here's pictures of the Football locker Room...

While not on a par with YSU, at least it's clean and well lit.  But the aisles are crowded and lockers are narrow (more like a typical HS phys ed locker room) and COACHDJ is comparing VU's to locker rooms visited at other D-I/II schools. 

Just for grins I Goggled locker prices. The wood cubbies like the ones at YSU run about $1100 a piece.  A more rudimentary metal units of approximately the same size goes for around $370.  VU's roster has 95 players -- that's $105K for wood material alone or $35K for metal. The other thing you need, of course, is the available space.

[valpopal]

FCS "non scholarship" survival / 101...first you Recruit and then you Retain!  There are a lot of things VU Football can do to recruit solid recruits...first is Upgrade the locker room...as a parent that took many Official and Un-Official visits VU locker room does not come close to competing.  Get rid of the over painted conventional lockers an install "cubbies" like every other football teams (Pro and College)...real cheap upgrade, but important to the players!  May have staff take trip to other team facilities (BCS) and get some cheap inexpensive ideas...

Welcome aboard CoachDJ. Can't agree more.  Not having seen the locker facilities (I'm in New England and well past taking a kid on a recruiting trip), I've got to agree that anything that improves the football environment, regardless how simple, needs to be done.  If you have the time to go back in various strings regarding FB and you'll see recurrent themes among the posters regarding recruiting and retention as well as facilities.  You'll also see my posts on facilities (I am kind of a one-trick pony in that regard) wherever I can justify them.  IMO kids and parents look for visible signs of program commitment in selecting a college where their son would play football. Some might disagree, but aside from the academics (which Valpo certainly provides) what besides facilities and winning attract recruits? And to win, the recruit and retain component is paramount.  So we are back to facilities and  I am a believer in the "if you build it, they will come" approach to program development.

I am right there with you! Build something better than they have now. Heck, some of the Duneland teams have better facilities than Valpo U. Merrillville comes to mind, as does Michigan City. Actually, if Valpo wants a blueprint...go to City. It's not expensive to recreate that, and it would certainly help create a "college" atmosphere. Yes, their stadium is small, but it's a brick and mortar facility and would be a nice compliment to the campus.

Here is an article that will stun some folks, "High School To Open $60 million Stadium": "Call it the palace of high school football: A gleaming $60 million facility with seats for 18,000 roaring fans, a 38-foot-wide high-definition video screen, corporate sponsors and a towering upper deck."

"Chris Wallace, whose oldest son is a senior quarterback, said she had to reassure him when they visited smaller colleges over the summer with older facilities."

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/highschool/08/30/allen-high-football-stadium.ap/index.html#ixzz28sM1NqkB

[valpotx]

That is pretty much the norm around here  .  You have a lot of ridiculous football stadiums in DFW

[vuweathernerd]

That is pretty much the norm around here  .  You have a lot of ridiculous football stadiums in DFW

yep, and a lot of those teams could probably beat us, on top of having nicer facilities.

[valpotx]

Haha, yes, a lot of them would put up fairly similar scores to what we have seen the last few years.  I believe my alma mater has averaged 8+ D-1 scholarship players each year since I graduated, with many other players continuing into college as well.    Our QB this year is very highly rated and supposed to be better than Christian Ponder was at my school, but signed with Oklahoma....boooo