Horizon League Preseason Awards

[vu72]

Tell you what, call the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and ask it to send a reporter to an Horizon League men's basketball media day outside of the city and see how it's received.

I'm not sure that the paper will send anyone to any of our league road games or that we even have a beat reporter for our home games.

Frankly, I would love to have David Woods, Rob Demovsky or Mark Lazerus cover us. Problem is, none of them would be allowed to do what he saw fit.

Tell you what, with as many alums as you must have in Milwaukee, why don't you try applying some pressure? No coverage?  That's humiliating.   It's D1 basketball!!!   Look, here is the coverage for the LOCAL D3 schools in Minneapolis.  Is Minneapolis a bigger market than Milwaukee??? (I'm giving you talking points here  ) GO GET EM!!!!!!!

http://miac-online.org/index.aspx?tab=menssports&path=football

Think about it...

[wh]

I hate to see McCallum selected over Ryan as pre-season pick for player of the year, especially since Ryan deserved the respect by winning the award last year. However, I also understand the greater strength and depth of this year's team might make it less likely Ryan will need to score or rebound as much as he did last year; therefore, his numbers might be overshadowed by those put up by McCallum, who will need to be his team's go to guy. Still, I hope Ryan and his teammates see this as further motivation for this year.

Last season's stats reveal that Ryan was better than McCallum in the following statistical categories:

FG%, FT%, 3PtFG%, Effective FG%, Points/40, RPG, Offensive Rating, True Shooting %, Blocks/game, TO/Game, TO%, Plus Minus Win %, Clutch Win %

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=ray-mccallum&p1=ryan-broekhoff

Also, Valpo beat Detroit in 2 of the 3 games they played head-to-head, and won the conference championship despite the fact that Detroit was heavily favored to win the league and Valpo was picked 5th.

The 2 things McCallum has over Ryan were his selection as a McDonald's High School All American (the only one ever in the HL or some such thing) and his uncontested dunk and show boating actions as the clock expired in last year's tournament championship game.  Not surprisingly, "reputation" and "flair" carried the day with the majority of sports reporters and broadcasters that superficially cover the HL.

[wh]

Inside VU Sports
Thoughts from Horizon League Men's Basketball Media Day
BY PAUL OREN PGMADO@GMAIL.COM

Players and coaches from all nine Horizon League men's basketball programs gathered at the Intercontinental Hotel in Rosemont, Ill. on Tuesday to share their thoughts on the upcoming 2012-13 season.

The result was a sense of unity from the league as the conference looks to overcome the loss of Butler and a sense of renewed optimism from the programs which have underachieved in recent years.

Horizon League commissioner Jon LeCrone said it best about the outlook that the conference coaches have concerning their chances in the league this season.

"There isn't a coach in this room that doesn't think they can't be the next national program," LeCrone said. "Coaches see it as an opportunity."

The fact that the Horizon League had a "Media Day" in the first place might have been in direct response to Butler's departure. With the league losing its most visible member, the conference put all nine programs on display on Tuesday afternoon. Judging from the media attendance (more Valparaiso reporters than any other program), the Horizon League might already have its next "national program" in the Crusaders.

October 09, 2012 6:46 pm


http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/

[milanmiracle]

I hate to see McCallum selected over Ryan as pre-season pick for player of the year, especially since Ryan deserved the respect by winning the award last year. However, I also understand the greater strength and depth of this year's team might make it less likely Ryan will need to score or rebound as much as he did last year; therefore, his numbers might be overshadowed by those put up by McCallum, who will need to be his team's go to guy. Still, I hope Ryan and his teammates see this as further motivation for this year.

Last season's stats reveal that Ryan was better than McCallum in the following statistical categories:

FG%, FT%, 3PtFG%, Effective FG%, Points/40, RPG, Offensive Rating, True Shooting %, Blocks/game, TO/Game, TO%, Plus Minus Win %, Clutch Win %

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=ray-mccallum&p1=ryan-broekhoff

Also, Valpo beat Detroit in 2 of the 3 games they played head-to-head, and won the conference championship despite the fact that Detroit was heavily favored to win the league and Valpo was picked 5th.

The 2 things McCallum has over Ryan were his selection as a McDonald's High School All American (the only one ever in the HL or some such thing) and his uncontested dunk and show boating actions as the clock expired in last year's tournament championship game.  Not surprisingly, "reputation" and "flair" carried the day with the majority of sports reporters and broadcasters that superficially cover the HL.

I don't agree that McCallum should be the preseason HL player of the year over Ryan, but I am pretty sure I know why.

It quite simply comes down to this...Ray McCallum Jr. is likely to be an NBA player...Ryan Broekhoff is unlikely to be an NBA player. Pretty simple really. Also Ray McCallum is a better one on one player than Ryan Broekhoff, and in many situations that's an important factor in deciding your POY.

I'll put it another way, Ryan is successful in the offense, Ray can be the offense. Brandon Wood had the ability to score points in bunches outside of the framework of the offense, and so does Ray. Ryan is not as good at that, but he's a much better all around player. I don't want to take away from Ryan (it seems like I am, but I am not) because he rebounds, knocks down FT and shoots a very high percentage and is the reigning HL POY, so let's give credit where credit is due.

All that said, I understand the Ray McCallum pick, though I don't necessarily agree.

[wh]

I think you and I are saying basically the same thing, with one exception.  McCallum shot 24% from 3 last season against primarily shorter, mid major college defenders and zone defenses.  There are basically zero NBA perimeter players that shoot that low, despite going against much quicker, taller, more agile defenders.  He does have a respectable mid range jump shot, but he will never play in the NBA unless and until he considerably improves his range. 

[FWalum]

McCallum vs Broekhoff     Hype vs Substance   The perception that McCallum is more deserving of PSPOY is deeply rooted in current basketball culture where the consistent and fundamentally sound overall game that Ryan possesses is not as prized as the flashy athleticism that looks good but doesn't always get the job done. Ratings for the NBA All Star layup contest just didn't cut it.

[Pathfinder]

McCallum vs Broekhoff Hype vs Substance The perception that McCallum is more deserving of PSPOY is deeply rooted in current basketball culture where the consistent and fundamentally sound overall game that Ryan possesses is not as prized as the flashy athleticism that looks good but doesn't always get the job done. Ratings for the NBA All Star layup contest just didn't cut it.

McCallum's numbers actually have quite a bit of substance to them. Still, why would McCallum rank ahead of last season's winner? It's not that hard. He's seen as having a higher upside - which is probably right. Let's put it this way - McCallum was better as a freshman than Broekhoff as a freshman; he was better as a sophomore than Broekhoff as a sophomore. If McCallum improves as much from soph to junior as Ryan did, McCallum will have a phenomenal season. I don't think most voters think Broekhoff is likely to improve much from last year, and I think they see more room for McCallum to continue improving.

[wh]

As I recall McCallum came in as the most ballyhooed high school player who ever elected to play in the HL.  He was a McD AA, a 95 or 96 ESPN/Scout, #18 on the top 100 list, etc.  He was supposed to own the HL by his sophomore year and be in the NBA by now. The last thing prognosticators and worshipers ever imagined was a less heralded player--Ryan--coming along and stealing the show.  So now we have a new story.  Last year was an anomaly.  The guy who stole McCallum's birthright has reached his potential, whereas McCallum will continue to improve by leaps and bounds.  Of course there's no rationale to make such a statement, but then again there doesn't have to be.  This is a message board open to anyone and everyone with a thought. There are no rules requiring the thought to be coherent. 

Seriously, both Ryan and McCallum are fine players.  it will be interesting to see how this all plays out on the court.

[milanmiracle]

I think you and I are saying basically the same thing, with one exception.  McCallum shot 24% from 3 last season against primarily shorter, mid major college defenders and zone defenses.  There are basically zero NBA perimeter players that shoot that low, despite going against much quicker, taller, more agile defenders.  He does have a respectable mid range jump shot, but he will never play in the NBA unless and until he considerably improves his range. 

We are saying the same thing, though in slightly different ways. Because McCallum is going to play the point at the next level, his 3pt shooting percentage in college won't matter too much to most teams looking for a point guard. The ability to get the team into the offense and get into the lane will mattter way more than his ability to knock down outside shots. Rajon Rondo was one of the worst college shooters I've ever seen, yet he learned over time and got better. Even today he's not great and teams will leave him open. I think most people would agree he's one of the top point guards in the league now. In the NBA, upside trumps production every time.

For the record, I am in no way shape or form comparing Rondo to McCallum. It's not close nor was it ever close. Rondo was a lock down defender in college...McCallum, not so much.

[Pathfinder]

So now we have a new story.  Last year was an anomaly.  The guy who stole McCallum's birthright has reached his potential, whereas McCallum will continue to improve by leaps and bounds.  Of course there's no rationale to make such a statement, but then again there doesn't have to be.

Well, that's not the story I told. The story I told is that last year McCallum was really, really good, not an anomaly. In my story, Ryan didn't "steal" anything from McCallum - he played better and earned POY. In my story, RB may or may not have reached his potential; it's less likely that McCallum has, for the reasons you suggest (most scouts view him as having more talent and a higher upside). And there is a rationale for suggesting that McCallum will improve more: 1) while very good, he has not yet reached the peaks most suggested by his high school performance and general assessment by scouts of his abilities, while Ryan, OTOH, has already surpassed them; and 2) I think most players are more likely to improve from sophomore to junior years than from junior to senior years. I think there's pretty good evidence for that.


Like you say, we'll see. But I don't see the need for the attitude.

[wh]

The tone of my post stems from the frustration I feel any time an injustice has been done and someone tries to legitimize it.  The defending HL POY is Ryan Broekhoff.  He EARNED this distinct honor over every other player in the league, including McCallum.  This year Ryan returns as the league's defending POY.  As such, he and he alone has EARNED the right to be named pre-season POY.  Instead, a group of people who pretend they know the players in the HL vote for the guy they've heard the most about (the hype factor) over the defending POY.  It's a slap in face to Ryan and anyone who believes that recognition should be EARNED, not given away.

[koala]

wh 

[vuweathernerd]

wh 

i second you, koala.

well said, wh. i'm in complete agreement.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Third. 

I'm as sure McCallum will be preseason POY next year as I am that he won't be the REAL POY this year.

[valpotx]

McCallum won't be POY by end of season.  It is a joke that he is preseason POY.  This isn't about most improved, it is about who from last year is back, and if your postseason POY is back, he earned the right to be preseason POY.  McCallum hasn't proven anything on the court since the end of last season to warrant this distinction, as no true games have taken place.

[Pathfinder]

"This isn't about most improved, it is about who from last year is back, and if your postseason POY is back, he earned the right to be preseason POY."


Well, actually, no. It's a prediction poll. Who do you predict will finish first? Who do you predict will be all-conference? Who do you predict will be POY? As they say in investments, past performance... And it's just a little exercise to drum up interest in the off-season. Not worth getting indignant. I think there are a few too many chips sitting on shoulders around here.


Look, I'm not saying the prediction is right. There is definitely a herd mentality to it - McCallum is an easy pick (so is Ryan) and a SID/Coach/AD/writer won't look stupid if he is wrong (same for anyone who voted for Ryan). I agree that it is frustrating to watch reputation top performance. But this is not some great injustice, nor is it irrational to think Ray McCallum will be a better player this year than Ryan Broekhoff. What surprised me more is that Green Bay didn't get a single first place vote.

Anyway, maybe this makes Ryan try a little harder.

[EddieCabot]

I'll weigh in, even though I don't have a dog in the fight.  FWIW, if I were a voter, I would have gone with Broekhoff.  With that said, I also understand why people might vote for McCallum and don't really think a near deadheat in the voting between these two is a great "injustice".

McCallum hasn't proven anything on the court since the end of last season to warrant this distinction, as no true games have taken place.

I understand the gist of valpotx's comment, but it's factually incorrect as the '11-'12 awards were voted on prior to the HL tournament.  McCallum had 3 games of 20+ points in the ARC, led his team to the NCAA tourney and was named the tournament MVP.  Right or wrong, that performance may have impacted how a few people voted in the pre-season poll.

As others have stated, McCallum may also be required to carry a bigger load because he isn't surrounded by all the talent that Valpo has.  Broekhoff could have a very good year, but not put up gaudy stats because newcomers like Capobianco, Rossi and Dority are going to be major contributors.  And don't forget that he's playing alongside another first-teamer in Van Wijk.

Ultimately, the pre-season voting is fairly meaningless.  If someone feels wronged, they have 30+ games to prove it.

[EddieCabot]

Here's another analysis ... very complimentary of Ryan.

http://www.midmajormadness.com/college-basketball-season-preview-2012-2013/2012/10/15/3504800/mid-major-top-10-horizon-league-broekhoff-mccallum-brown

[valporun]

I agree. I wouldn't get too caught up in preseason predictions. Consider last season, Valpo was picked 5th, and Ryan wasn't in consideration for POY. Like Eddie says, every player has 30+ games in the season to prove the predictions right or wrong. Ryan and Ray will put these predicitions to the test, and do their best to live up to what has been said about their abilities, and let what they do on the court do the real talking, not what any of us or the paid prognosticators say about their games.

[historyman]

I couldn't give one iota of a care who is predicted the winner. It's all about who actually wins.

Both McCallum and Broekhoff could get hurt, God forbid, and leave the race for POY wide open.

[valpotx]

I definitely agree with the analysis on that website.  In watching Ray play, he has always seemed overrated over the high expectations placed onto him.  He pouts when he doesn't get the ball, hogs the ball, and his shot can look really bad when off.  My earlier post is also probably due to my lack of respect for him as a person after last year's championship game finish, and attitude during other games against Detroit.  I can't get unsportsmanlike acts like that out of my head unfortunately.  I can confidently say that I have never disliked a conference opponent more than Ray.  From the Caleb Green's, Ken Tutt's, Jeff Monaco's, Michael Watson's, Michael Helm's, etc, I never disliked any of them for their personalities.  It was simply because they were good, and could impact a game.  Ray, well, he is just a piece of crap 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Anyone have a KenPom subscription?  I'm sure that Broekhoff is a ton ahead of McCallum in them, but I don't have access...

[milanmiracle]

I'll weigh in, even though I don't have a dog in the fight.  FWIW, if I were a voter, I would have gone with Broekhoff.  With that said, I also understand why people might vote for McCallum and don't really think a near deadheat in the voting between these two is a great "injustice".

McCallum hasn't proven anything on the court since the end of last season to warrant this distinction, as no true games have taken place.

I understand the gist of valpotx's comment, but it's factually incorrect as the '11-'12 awards were voted on prior to the HL tournament.  McCallum had 3 games of 20+ points in the ARC, led his team to the NCAA tourney and was named the tournament MVP.  Right or wrong, that performance may have impacted how a few people voted in the pre-season poll.

As others have stated, McCallum may also be required to carry a bigger load because he isn't surrounded by all the talent that Valpo has.  Broekhoff could have a very good year, but not put up gaudy stats because newcomers like Capobianco, Rossi and Dority are going to be major contributors.  And don't forget that he's playing alongside another first-teamer in Van Wijk.

Ultimately, the pre-season voting is fairly meaningless.  If someone feels wronged, they have 30+ games to prove it.

Led his team to the NCAA tournament, was tournament MVP, and did it in Ryan's house. Because of that I understand the Ray McCallum pick.

*for the record, I still think Ray acts like a little whiny brat.