Exhibition Game vs St. Joseph's

[SadersofthelostArc]

Classless response, valporun.

Keep up the good work valpopal!

[SadersofthelostArc]

Hey valpopal, not to be a meanie, but every once in awhile could you post pictures with a regular look, and not have every picture look like a poster style piece of art?

I think we should start a thread for special requests.  So far justducky wants answers to his questions in 10 words or less and valporun wants a mixture of regular and stylish game photos.  Got it!   

And I would like to request more pics of Coach Dorow!   

[valpopal]

Hey valpopal, not to be a meanie, but every once in awhile could you post pictures with a regular look, and not have every picture look like a poster style piece of art?

Sorry, valporun, no offense taken, but I don't usually do "regular look" photos of anything, whether architectural, landscape, social, or sports. I know you can find plenty of those type of "regular look" pictures from the games in the Times, Post-Tribune, or Torch, as well as at the Valpo Athletics web site or the VU flicker page. I figure there would be no need for me to repeat what the fine photographers for those sites are doing. I'm just offering a different perspective, which some seem to enjoy as an addition to those other journalistic photos available.

[SadersofthelostArc]

Hey valpopal, not to be a meanie, but every once in awhile could you post pictures with a regular look, and not have every picture look like a poster style piece of art?

Sorry, valporun, no offense taken, but I don't usually do "regular look" photos of anything, whether architectural, landscape, social, or sports. I know you can find plenty of those type of "regular look" pictures from the games in the Times, Post-Tribune, or Torch, as well as at the Valpo Athletics web site or the VU flicker page. I figure there would be no need for me to repeat what the fine photographers for those sites are doing. I'm just offering a different perspective, which some seem to enjoy as an addition to those other journalistic photos available.

No explanation needed, bro.  Your photos are awesome and the vast majority of us appreciate them greatly.  Some just like to "pee in the Cheerios," so to speak.  Keep up the fine work!

[valpotx]

Anyone get a feel on how Vashil will be versus quicker guards driving the lane?  You see a lot of the bigger guys get into foul trouble with athletic guards, especially when they don't have a lengthy playing background to know how to position their body to avoid the blocking fouls.

That would be the tallest line-up we have had in a long time (Capo, Vashil, KVW, and Rowdy).  We had some tall teams when I was in school, as I believe I remember seeing Raitis (6'11")/Kikas (6'9")/Oppland (6'8")/Berdiel (6'6")/Nieves or Ortiz (6'3") on the floor at the same time occasionally during my 4th year (2002-2003). 

[sliman]

FWIW just to add to the conversations, some thoughts on the exhibition opener:
Team - Increased depth, especially on the front line.  Defense of starters should again be solid, but newcomers will need to step up defensively.
Newcomers - Capobianco will give needed size inside, but he needs to stay inside where we need him and not hanging around the 3-point line where he seems to want to play; if he had Kevin's footwork, he'd be a huge force.  Fernandez is a work in progress, further along than Vucic was after three years but doesn't show much basketball IQ due to little of experience and has poor footwork and lack strength; can be intimidating defensively but must learn to keep arms extended rather than swatting down at the offensive player; limited offensively but showed promise on one pivot move under the basket.  Rossi didn't have a great game and brought back memories of Boggs in his early games last year; gives a wing option but doesn't appear to play defense or rebound as well as Broekoff or Kenney.  Coleman has a ton of athletic ability and is a great leaper, but didn't show much offensive power away from the rim; could be the odd man out in the rotation after Dority becomes eligible.  Dority didn't play but looks very strong physically; probably will back up Boggs at the point and the guess is that he will be better offensively but not as good defensively (not a risky prediction, I know).  None of the newcomers appear ready to win a starting position and IMHO Capobianco and Rossi would appear to be the two to get the most playing time with Dority joining them in December.
Returnees - Kevin didn't play of course, but the others looked to be in good form to start the season.  As someone noted, Kenney seemed in mid-season form with his aggressiveness, energy and outside shooting. Ryan was Ryan.  Buggs seemed to have the confidence you want in a senior, still doesn't look to shoot from outside although on his one attempt, his form looked improved perhaps at the result of off-season work.  Bogan also showed a senior's confidence and improved awareness of his role on the team.  Boggs could have received the most improved award for this one game; he was much more fluid in the offense than a year ago even when he ran the point when Eric was off the floor; won't be a shut down defender, but could be a very important part of the team this year and a surprise to HL team that didn't see much in him last year.

[valporun]

A couple of questions, sliman...

1) Do you think Vashil's defensive issues could be the height advantage against St. Joe's tallest players, who probably maxed out at 6'6" or 6'7"? (Swatting down being the major thing.)

2) In your observation of Dority, are you suggesting that he'll possibly be the offensive version of Buggs as the point?

[historyman]

1) Do you think Vashil's defensive issues could be the height advantage against St. Joe's tallest players, who probably maxed out at 6'6" or 6'7"? (Swatting down being the major thing.)

St. Joe actually maxed out at 6'8" freshman Aleksa Kojcinovic from La Lumiere, 6'7" junior D.J. Martinez from Troy, OH and 6'7" soph Ryan Rebholz from Fishers, IN. If those were their true heights and they didn't seem more than an inch off. As I said before I don't think St. Joe's problem is height or athletic ability but more fundamental basketball skills.


One of their guards was a real slasher who could really take it to the basket.

[SadersofthelostArc]

FWIW just to add to the conversations, some thoughts on the exhibition opener:
Team - Increased depth, especially on the front line.  Defense of starters should again be solid, but newcomers will need to step up defensively.
Newcomers - Capobianco will give needed size inside, but he needs to stay inside where we need him and not hanging around the 3-point line where he seems to want to play; if he had Kevin's footwork, he'd be a huge force.  Fernandez is a work in progress, further along than Vucic was after three years but doesn't show much basketball IQ due to little of experience and has poor footwork and lack strength; can be intimidating defensively but must learn to keep arms extended rather than swatting down at the offensive player; limited offensively but showed promise on one pivot move under the basket.  Rossi didn't have a great game and brought back memories of Boggs in his early games last year; gives a wing option but doesn't appear to play defense or rebound as well as Broekoff or Kenney.  Coleman has a ton of athletic ability and is a great leaper, but didn't show much offensive power away from the rim; could be the odd man out in the rotation after Dority becomes eligible.  Dority didn't play but looks very strong physically; probably will back up Boggs at the point and the guess is that he will be better offensively but not as good defensively (not a risky prediction, I know).  None of the newcomers appear ready to win a starting position and IMHO Capobianco and Rossi would appear to be the two to get the most playing time with Dority joining them in December.
Returnees - Kevin didn't play of course, but the others looked to be in good form to start the season.  As someone noted, Kenney seemed in mid-season form with his aggressiveness, energy and outside shooting. Ryan was Ryan.  Buggs seemed to have the confidence you want in a senior, still doesn't look to shoot from outside although on his one attempt, his form looked improved perhaps at the result of off-season work.  Bogan also showed a senior's confidence and improved awareness of his role on the team.  Boggs could have received the most improved award for this one game; he was much more fluid in the offense than a year ago even when he ran the point when Eric was off the floor; won't be a shut down defender, but could be a very important part of the team this year and a surprise to HL team that didn't see much in him last year.

Honestly, if none of Capo/Rossi/Dority are good enough to win a starting job, then I think we may not be as good as everyone thinks.  We're talking about Big 6 players...no offense to the great guys we have, but I would hope these newcomers are better than some of the returners.

[lowposter]

It was a nice exhibition outing against a D2 team, an upgrade from last year's PNC game.  This was a great game to get the boys on the floor and play against an opposing team instead of practicing against one another.  StJ is not a very good D2 team this year, the bottom of the Great Lakes Conference, a powerhouse D2 league, but still there was some talent on the floor.

What we noticed at the game...
1.  The biggest difference, apart from the physical abilities of VU, was the ability of the Crusaders to continue to move the ball by passing until the open man was found.  Buggs had several outstanding passes which resulted in open shots and baskets.  While Rossi didnt score, he tallied 6 assists.  StJ had a tendancy to either take the ball to the basket resulting in a contested shot or rapidly (and wildly) taking an ill advised 3 point shot.  Part of that might be the tendancy of the players to revert to individual one on one to "prove" they are are a D1 player, since this is possibly the only D1 team scheduled.  My guess is that StJ will improve dramatically as the season progresses.  Obviously none of their players are D1 and as soon as they realize that...the better the team will be.

2.  On the other hand, VU appeared at midseason form running their offense.  There were a few forced shots, primarily by newcomers (airball on first shot comes to mind, plus a few forced 3's), but when your best player, make that the league's best player sets the tone with unselfish play, then the balance of the team will fall into place.  This team will continue the past success of finding the open man, unselfishly sacrificing individual play for team benefits. 
3.  These seniors are ready to play.  There is nothing like a senior laden team that check's their egos at the door.  This could be a very rewarding season.  It SHOULD be a very rewarding season.
4.  This is one very well coached team.  Enjoy the coaching staff while you can, they are "movin on up".
5.  Forget all the possiblities of these huge lineups.  Height doesnt win games, skilled players do.  The HL is a guard/forward league.  Ryan at a 4 is just fine.

lowposter

[milanmiracle]

It was a nice exhibition outing against a D2 team, an upgrade from last year's PNC game.  This was a great game to get the boys on the floor and play against an opposing team instead of practicing against one another.  StJ is not a very good D2 team this year, the bottom of the Great Lakes Conference, a powerhouse D2 league, but still there was some talent on the floor.

What we noticed at the game...
1.  The biggest difference, apart from the physical abilities of VU, was the ability of the Crusaders to continue to move the ball by passing until the open man was found.  Buggs had several outstanding passes which resulted in open shots and baskets.  While Rossi didnt score, he tallied 6 assists.  StJ had a tendancy to either take the ball to the basket resulting in a contested shot or rapidly (and wildly) taking an ill advised 3 point shot.  Part of that might be the tendancy of the players to revert to individual one on one to "prove" they are are a D1 player, since this is possibly the only D1 team scheduled.  My guess is that StJ will improve dramatically as the season progresses.  Obviously none of their players are D1 and as soon as they realize that...the better the team will be.

2.  On the other hand, VU appeared at midseason form running their offense.  There were a few forced shots, primarily by newcomers (airball on first shot comes to mind, plus a few forced 3's), but when your best player, make that the league's best player sets the tone with unselfish play, then the balance of the team will fall into place.  This team will continue the past success of finding the open man, unselfishly sacrificing individual play for team benefits. 
3.  These seniors are ready to play.  There is nothing like a senior laden team that check's their egos at the door.  This could be a very rewarding season.  It SHOULD be a very rewarding season.
4.  This is one very well coached team.  Enjoy the coaching staff while you can, they are "movin on up".
5.  Forget all the possiblities of these huge lineups.  Height doesnt win games, skilled players do.  The HL is a guard/forward league.  Ryan at a 4 is just fine.

lowposter

1. Do you think other teams that know Buggs can't shoot will continue to play off him, eliminating some of those passing lanes?

2. I am hoping Ryan becomes a little more selfish, at least in specific moments. If he had a flaw last year, that was it.

3 & 5. Of course they'll be ready early as they're an experienced team, but this season comes down to the HL tournament and the auto bid (forget the at large bid). I am interested to see how they grow as the season progresses. Nothing else matters other than "The Dance". Also, I hope Bryce is preparing them for teams where size will matter, such as NCAA tournament teams!

4. I would agree. I don't see Powell sticking around for the long haul. Diebler and now possibly Kurth might, as they have some stake in the program. Some assistants do stay, but usually at higher level programs where the pay is better. They're also young enough they might want their own programs at some point. Either way, I think Bryce will find good basketball minds to replace them.

[valpotx]

You are assuming that Bryce stays, which I highly doubt he will after this year.  If it turns out like it should (NCAA bid), he will have bigger dawgs than Miss State after him in the summer 

[milanmiracle]

You are assuming that Bryce stays, which I highly doubt he will after this year.  If it turns out like it should (NCAA bid), he will have bigger dawgs than Miss State after him in the summer 

Bryce may or may not leave. That will be a much more interesting question than most people think. Bryce came to Valpo because of his father, and because he had ties to the community and school. Does that loyalty keep him here? I am going to paraphrase a quote asked of Bryce out of HS...Don't you want to play big time college basketball? Why can't we play big time college basketball at Valpo? Or something to that extent. In the end he did choose Valpo over much bigger and better programs.

Scott Drew leaving was one thing and not surprising at all. Bryce leaving would be a little harder, for both Bryce and Valpo.

*If Bryce does indeed leave, Greg Tonagel is right down the road

[zvillehaze]

this season comes down to the HL tournament and the auto bid (forget the at large bid). I am interested to see how they grow as the season progresses. Nothing else matters other than "The Dance".

Milan has stated this a few times and I wonder if other posters agree?

I disagree, because that type of thinking leads to minimizing the importance of non-conference games (refer to Mark Lazerus's comment last year that the IPFW loss "meant absolutely nothing" to Valpo).  I'm assuming the coaching staff and team feel differently, especially after Valpo was voted as over-whelming favorites to win the league.  I would hope their goal is to make this a special season ... not just roll the dice and hope they play well in March like Milan suggests.  Even if Valpo wins the HL tourney, their seed (and chances for advancing) will depend largely upon how they perform in November and December.  Agree?

[vu72]

this season comes down to the HL tournament and the auto bid (forget the at large bid). I am interested to see how they grow as the season progresses. Nothing else matters other than "The Dance".

Milan has stated this a few times and I wonder if other posters agree?

I disagree, because that type of thinking leads to minimizing the importance of non-conference games (refer to Mark Lazerus's comment last year that the IPFW loss "meant absolutely nothing" to Valpo).  I'm assuming the coaching staff and team feel differently, especially after Valpo was voted as over-whelming favorites to win the league.  I would hope their goal is to make this a special season ... not just roll the dice and hope they play well in March like Milan suggests.  Even if Valpo wins the HL tourney, their seed (and chances for advancing) will depend largely upon how they perform in November and December.  Agree?

Couldn't agree more haze.  All the games are important, as you suggest, if for no other reason than seeding.  I tend to agree that an at-large will be difficult--impossible unless we do well in the non-conference--but still a possibility.

[motowntitan]

I also couldn't agree more with Zville.

Detroit and Valpo have great OOC schedules with ample opportunities for both teams to do well.   

Valpo= @ Nebraska, Kent State, St Louis, New Mexico, and Murray State.  Nebraska maybe a lesser team, but their RPI will be raised because the B1G will actually be pretty good this year.  You go 4-1 in that stretch, and beat all Horizon teams not named Detroit and Green Bay, and you should get at large.

With Butler gone, there is nothing more I would love than Detroit and Valpo both get in the tourney this year. 

[milanmiracle]

this season comes down to the HL tournament and the auto bid (forget the at large bid). I am interested to see how they grow as the season progresses. Nothing else matters other than "The Dance".

Milan has stated this a few times and I wonder if other posters agree?

I disagree, because that type of thinking leads to minimizing the importance of non-conference games (refer to Mark Lazerus's comment last year that the IPFW loss "meant absolutely nothing" to Valpo).  I'm assuming the coaching staff and team feel differently, especially after Valpo was voted as over-whelming favorites to win the league.  I would hope their goal is to make this a special season ... not just roll the dice and hope they play well in March like Milan suggests.  Even if Valpo wins the HL tourney, their seed (and chances for advancing) will depend largely upon how they perform in November and December.  Agree?

Here's where I am coming from with winning the HL tournament to get an NCAA bid.

I don't think the schedule is strong enough to warrant an at large bid unless they go something and 2 or 3. Remember Cleveland State was a bubble team when they only had 2 losses last year. Of course they fell apart at the end and it didn't matter, but the point was it's hard to get a good look without beating teams in the RPI top 50. People were even wondering if Murray State would be an at large team if they lost to St. Mary's in the bracketbuster.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/ncbexperts/id/7569945/ncb-murray-state-needs-beat-saint-mary-bracketbusters-ensure-large-bid

Keep in mind that Murray State beat Memphis, W. Kentucky, and Dayton prior to that article.

New Mexico, St. Louis and Murray State are nice games, and they'll likely finish in the top 100, so those wins are necessary and vital to any chance of an at large bid. Nebraska is a good name and I am estatic that Valpo scheduled a beatable BCS school, but they were bad last year, and now they have a new coach. They aren't going to help the RPI any.

I wish all the eggs didn't have to go in the HL tournament basket, but I feel that's the only way Valpo is going to dance, and if they don't dance the rest of the season was well... 

[crusaderjoe]

I agree and disagree with Milan.  Non conference games are important because they are tied to RPI.  It is possible that RPI can be used as a seeding tiebreaker for the HL tournament as '72 referenced.  These D-I games therefore count in general in my mind.

On the other hand, IMO there will hardly be any way that a nine team mid major league that just lost its media darling (and now may be perceived as being weaker as a result) will be a multiple bid NCAA league.  And this is where I agree with Milan--whether warranted or not, as long as the perception exists that the HL is weaker now than it was when Butler was a member, it will be the HL tournament that will decide the one bid no matter who wins what OOC. 

To change this perception, a good start would be a Sweet 16 or bust mentality this year for both VU and Detroit.

Just my .02.

[vu72]

I agree with joe on this but also think that the league may surprise some folks with early wins. Detroit, Valpo and Green Bay have the talent to wins some games and change the view of the Horizon to something  tough versus something that just lost Butler.

[crusaderjoe]

I agree that the HL could surprise as far as OOC.  Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think a nine team mid major league in and of itself is not capable of producing multiple bids.  That's happened before as far as Valpo is concerned—see the Mid Con of 1991 when both UWGB and Northern Illinois made the tournament.  I'm just not quite sure at this point that OOC wins on their own will displace the Butler effect at least this season, since they just left last year.

[VULB#62]

" I'm just not quite sure at this point that OOC wins on their own will displace the Butler effect at least this season, since they just left last year."

Oh, oh Joe.  You're itching to breathe more life into 2013-14 HL additions speculation, aren't you.   

[valpotx]

If we win each of the OOC conference games, and only lose 2-3 conference games, I would have to think that we would get an at-large like Murray State most likely would have last year.  Obviously, I highly doubt that we win all the OOC games, but one can dream 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

...wouldn't it be more likely that we lose 2-3 OOC, run the table conf reg season, and still get an at-large bid if we slipped up in the conf championship?

[historyman]

...wouldn't it be more likely that we lose 2-3 OOC, run the table conf reg season, and still get an at-large bid if we slipped up in the conf championship?

No. 

Just because one team goes 16-0 in conference doesn't mean that the conference deserves 2 bids to the NCAA tourney.

[justducky]

...wouldn't it be more likely that we lose 2-3 OOC, run the table conf reg season, and still get an at-large bid if we slipped up in the conf championship?

No. 

Just because one team goes 16-0 in conference doesn't mean that the conference deserves 2 bids to the NCAA tourney.

The chance of our losing only 3 OOC games should be under 45% and for only 2 it should be close to 0%. So I would have to agree that a near run of the Horizon League is required but that run might just be enough. We will have a much clearer picture of this when the team returns from Nebraska. Until then I am just hoping that our returning guard play is up to the task.