In September of 2020 Valparaiso University was working with Grand Canyon Education to initiate online nursing and healthcare programs as a way of creating outreach and revenue, even going as far as establishing a memorandum of understanding. At that time, because of covid the university had experienced extensive and successful online learning with its faculty, and the decision was that such learning could work effectively. Eventually, Valparaiso pulled out of the possible agreement apparently due to the cost of the GCE cut, as well as some strong faculty resistance against GCE.
Now, four years later, Valpo has signed a similar agreement with Relearnit, another online program management firm, to operate fully-online graduate programs: Master of Public Health, Master of Health Care Administration, and the Post-Professional Doctor of Occupational Therapy. I am told the main difference is that Relearnit receives a smaller portion of the tuition. Otherwise, the process seems essentially the same as that explored with GCE, and there are no real ethical concerns or academic questions.
I believe the thinking is that this is a first step toward greater online learning programs and courses, which likely will follow. One wonders if VU had been more proactive and taken the initiative in 2020 would the development since then have generated potential income that allowed an avoidance of some budgeting cuts and enrollment drops seen since then.
Grand Canyon University has presented a model for financial and enrollment success, especially for private and religious universities. For various reasons, Valparaiso could never become as large as GCU, but that is just as well. However, borrowing some its methods while tweaking specific aspects would assist in economic and enrollment recovery at Valparaiso University.
I think you are on the money, but I believe there is an answer to the bolded. With the sentiment towards GCE displayed here, and online through articles posted by WH. It seems like this would only have been a short-term benefit to this. Just look at GCE's constant legal battles. I am going as far as to lie about the cost of their Doctorate programs. The secretary of Education is in a constant struggle with the school as well. It is worth it to assume that in the near future, there is going to be a battle to decide whether GCU is really a non-profit schools, or just masquerading as one. Sure, we would have seen some increase in numbers and budget cut avoidance, but when GCE eventually falls, VU would have been caught in the crossfire. They are being very careful to avoid another Law School situation it seems. I have no doubt the Relearnit contract is most likely a better deal.
GCU is in the current legal battles about doctorate programs, not GCE, which is not likely to "fall." Additionally, I do not think GCU "lied" about the cost of their doctoral programs. As one who holds a PhD, l believe doctoral candidates should know there are continuing costs, which vary from student to student, until the degree is finished. Therefore, most universities do not disclose a specific cost or exact need for the additional coursework. On the other hand, GCU states the need and estimated costs, including providing a degree program calculator, for continuation courses while completing a dissertation. In fact, apparently the charges by the Department of Education against GCU offered no claims or complaints by individual students.
I will tend to sympathize with the university in its disagreement with the incompetent Secretary of Education and his department, which have been responsible for significant harm, especially to private religious universities like Valparaiso due to the FAFSA blunders. In fact, I hope VU joins a consortium of private universities to sue the Department of Education once damage to enrollments and tuition funds income are established. Perhaps the suit could help regain some of the expected economic losses.
In September of 2020 Valparaiso University was working with Grand Canyon Education to initiate online nursing and healthcare programs as a way of creating outreach and revenue, even going as far as establishing a memorandum of understanding. At that time, because of covid the university had experienced extensive and successful online learning with its faculty, and the decision was that such learning could work effectively. Eventually, Valparaiso pulled out of the possible agreement apparently due to the cost of the GCE cut, as well as some strong faculty resistance against GCE.
Now, four years later, Valpo has signed a similar agreement with Relearnit, another online program management firm, to operate fully-online graduate programs: Master of Public Health, Master of Health Care Administration, and the Post-Professional Doctor of Occupational Therapy. I am told the main difference is that Relearnit receives a smaller portion of the tuition. Otherwise, the process seems essentially the same as that explored with GCE, and there are no real ethical concerns or academic questions.
I believe the thinking is that this is a first step toward greater online learning programs and courses, which likely will follow. One wonders if VU had been more proactive and taken the initiative in 2020 would the development since then have generated potential income that allowed an avoidance of some budgeting cuts and enrollment drops seen since then.
Grand Canyon University has presented a model for financial and enrollment success, especially for private and religious universities. For various reasons, Valparaiso could never become as large as GCU, but that is just as well. However, borrowing some its methods while tweaking specific aspects would assist in economic and enrollment recovery at Valparaiso University.
I think you are on the money, but I believe there is an answer to the bolded. With the sentiment towards GCE displayed here, and online through articles posted by WH. It seems like this would only have been a short-term benefit to this. Just look at GCE's constant legal battles. I am going as far as to lie about the cost of their Doctorate programs. The secretary of Education is in a constant struggle with the school as well. It is worth it to assume that in the near future, there is going to be a battle to decide whether GCU is really a non-profit schools, or just masquerading as one. Sure, we would have seen some increase in numbers and budget cut avoidance, but when GCE eventually falls, VU would have been caught in the crossfire. They are being very careful to avoid another Law School situation it seems. I have no doubt the Relearnit contract is most likely a better deal.
GCU is in the current legal battles about doctorate programs, not GCE, which is not likely to "fall." Additionally, I do not think GCU "lied" about the cost of their doctoral programs. As one who holds a PhD, l believe doctoral candidates should know there are continuing costs, which vary from student to student, until the degree is finished. Therefore, most universities do not disclose a specific cost or exact need for the additional coursework. On the other hand, GCU states the need and estimated costs, including providing a degree program calculator, for continuation courses while completing a dissertation. In fact, apparently the charges by the Department of Education against GCU offered no claims or complaints by individual students.
I will tend to sympathize with the university in its disagreement with the incompetent Secretary of Education and his department, which have been responsible for significant harm, especially to private religious universities like Valparaiso due to the FAFSA blunders. In fact, I hope VU joins a consortium of private universities to sue the Department of Education once damage to enrollments and tuition funds income are established. Perhaps the suit could help regain some of the expected economic losses.
Normally I would agree with the school in cases with the DOE, but in this case I think there is some concerning evidence against both GCU and GCE. Despite being separate entities, there is a lot of staff overlap between the two. The most notable being the CEO of GCE and the President of GCU are the same person. Brian Mueller. GCU's admins are also already employees of GCE, and while none of them share any of the seats on the board at time of writing, it is interesting to see that both the board of GCU and the board of GCE elected the same person as their CEO and President. This casts doubt as to whether GCU acts in the benefit of another entity, the entity in question being GCE. WHile disputed by GCU, a report claims that GCE only accounts for 28% of the operational cost of GCU, while somehow receiving upwards of 60% of the revenue from the university. This holds some merit to the DOEs claim that GCU is a "captive client" of GCE. The revenue stream simply doesn't add up here. Considering that the school gives 60% of their revenue to GCE and is still a running institution. While the DOE has been largely stupid for a while now, there is merit to some of their claims that GCU is not the operator of itself.
As for where VU needs to join a consortium, I believe one is already in the works over the FAFSA debacle. Heard a few whispers while still on campus at IUI that there is a case being developed.
I also realized that typo that you bolded. it is now fixed. Started a sentence and finished with another sentence. OOPS
(While an older article, as far as my research holds, the numbers are still correct. If there is updated numbers, please share.)
...a report claims that GCE only accounts for 28% of the operational cost of GCU, while somehow receiving upwards of 60% of the revenue from the university. This holds some merit to the DOEs claim that GCU is a "captive client" of GCE. The revenue stream simply doesn't add up here. Considering that the school gives 60% of their revenue to GCE and is still a running institution.
GCE takes around 60% of Grand Canyon University’s tuition and fee revenue in exchange for a suite of services, such as help with financial aid and marketing. Looking at GCU's excellent revenue and enrollment numbers, it seems to be working just fine. In 2020 GCE offered Valparaiso the same 60% tuition sharing fee, which it seemingly does with all universities. That doesn't make GCU an outlier and it wouldn't have made VU "a captive client." Indeed, the 60% cut was a sticking point for Valpo, and one reason given for the deal falling through. The new agreement with Realearnit reportedly is for a more modest fee, perhaps 40%.
@valpopal I also see that 60% was taken from ticket sales, arena and golf course usage, hotel operations, and student fees. Adding all of these costs would pose a considerable price tag to any institution. Especially an institution with aspirations for athletic upgrades. 40% on tuition seems a lot more manageable for the return on investment of having online degree paths.
And I have zero idea what wh was referring to when he said I had a |"religious bias"
@valpopal I also see that 60% was taken from ticket sales, arena and golf course usage, hotel operations, and student fees. Adding all of these costs would pose a considerable price tag to any institution. Especially an institution with aspirations for athletic upgrades. 40% on tuition seems a lot more manageable for the return on investment of having online degree paths.
GCE supplies the university with technology, academic resources, counseling services, physical support, publicity and marketing in return for the 60% share of GCU’s tuition and fee revenue. All universities must pay for such services in support of their activities and operations. Since GCU has spent over $1.7 billion upgrading its campus with new dorms, classrooms, laboratories, athletic facilities, a 7,000 seat basketball arena, and other student services since 2009, and the university has pledged $500 million in further investments over the nest four years, I would conclude all their arrangements are working quite well.
@vu72 The link you supply actually undercuts the Department of Education claims. The first paragraph states: "According to the DOE’s investigation, the vast majority of GCU doctoral students overpaid between $10,000 and $12,000 for their degrees when compared to the cost prominently advertised by GCU. As a consequence, the DOE recently fined GCU more than $37 million for its fraudulent practices. Despite facing the DOE fine, GCU has not been forced to make things right with GCU doctoral students and graduates, as no portion of the DOE fine will go to reimburse those who overpaid for their degrees."
The fact that PhD students paid more because they took longer to complete their dissertation is not surprising to anyone in academics, especially those of us with PhDs. GCU is not responsible for the students extending far beyond the course requirements and costs listed if they continue their dissertation studies beyond necessary. The quoted paragraph also confirms the Department of Education does not identify individual student claims or complaints.
The link reports "GCU told prospective students that its doctoral programs would be completed by earning between 60 to 65 credit hours of coursework." That is accurate. The link follows with the explanation that many students took "costly continuation courses to complete their dissertation, ultimately incurring additional costs of $10,000 to $12,000, and sometimes even higher." Exactly: that is how it works at most universities; yet, GCU is fined an historically unfair $37.7 million!
@valpopal I also see that 60% was taken from ticket sales, arena and golf course usage, hotel operations, and student fees. Adding all of these costs would pose a considerable price tag to any institution. Especially an institution with aspirations for athletic upgrades. 40% on tuition seems a lot more manageable for the return on investment of having online degree paths.
GCE supplies the university with technology, academic resources, counseling services, physical support, publicity and marketing in return for the 60% share of GCU’s tuition and fee revenue. All universities must pay for such services in support of their activities and operations. Since GCU has spent over $1.7 billion upgrading its campus with new dorms, classrooms, laboratories, athletic facilities, a 7,000 seat basketball arena, and other student services since 2009, and the university has pledged $500 million in further investments over the nest four years, I would conclude all their arrangements are working quite well.
I understand GCU benefits from this. However, there seems to be some concern presented as to how much of GCU is actually GCE wearing a mask. I don't have an issue with the "Bundled Services Exemption". Putting much of the strain from providing essential services on the back of another entity, in exchange for tuition money can help universities. OPMs are also going to be essential for small schools who do not have the servers, funds, or programmers to manage online services that students now want access to. The problem with GCU and GCE is where the business ends, and where the school begins. It is also worth mentioning that GCU and GCE were the same entity pre 2018 when GCU attempted to become a nonprofit and them splitting under "client" status was deemed a necessity for them returning to the nonprofit status. There is reasonable doubt that GCU and GCE are operating as separate entities to this day. They marketed themselves as a nonprofit Christian school, while subsequently feeding GCE. It is important to note that VU would have been GCEs first client since the split. Making GCU their only client for 2 whole years before talks began. Once again. I dont agree with the DOE on most decisions, and I dont agree with them on the doctorate degree from given the evidence provided, but I believe their doubt that GCE and GCU truly operate as separate entities. It is something worth investigating.
From my research on Relearnit seems to have a better trust built up than GCE does given the controversies and offers a better overall deal. Valpo only wanted the Orbit OPM service from GCU, not the full package. It seems like 60% for a fraction of the overalls service is a major price tag as opposed to 40% from Realearnit. Given that Valpo was goin g to become the first ever partner with GCE and was relatively untested outside of their other half of GCU. I can see why doubts would have been in the minds of the school. Realearnt has been around since 2008 and has more experience . There is a lot of dirt to dig up on GCE and GCU, but there is relatively nothing controversial I could find about Realearnit
I understand GCU benefits from this. However, there seems to be some concern presented as to how much of GCU is actually GCE wearing a mask. I don't have an issue with the "Bundled Services Exemption". Putting much of the strain from providing essential services on the back of another entity, in exchange for tuition money can help universities. OPMs are also going to be essential for small schools who do not have the servers, funds, or programmers to manage online services that students now want access to. The problem with GCU and GCE is where the business ends, and where the school begins. It is also worth mentioning that GCU and GCE were the same entity pre 2018 when GCU attempted to become a nonprofit and them splitting under "client" status was deemed a necessity for them returning to the nonprofit status. There is reasonable doubt that GCU and GCE are operating as separate entities to this day. They marketed themselves as a nonprofit Christian school, while subsequently feeding GCE. It is important to note that VU would have been GCEs first client since the split. Making GCU their only client for 2 whole years before talks began. Once again. I dont agree with the DOE on most decisions, and I dont agree with them on the doctorate degree from given the evidence provided, but I believe their doubt that GCE and GCU truly operate as separate entities. It is something worth investigating.
Even with everything you have stated here, none of it has any bearing on the ridiculous $37.7 million fines imposed by the Department of Education.
@valpopal I stated that the doctorate degree issue is ridiculous, which was why these fines were imposed yes? However investigating the shadiness of GCU and GCE still has merit
I posted the article on GCU because of interest in the school posted on this site. I have zero knowledge or zero interest in the outcome or validity of same.
Here are my thoughts
1. Stop copying long posts
2. Move this discussion out of this topic
3. Return to the actual topic
On that note, the current consensus on MVCFAns is
UT Arlington
NKU
St Thomas
My personal choice is St Thomas.
As one of the people guilty of moving this thread away from the topic, I will offer a thought regarding St. Thomas. Should it make a difference that St. Thomas is not eligible for the NCAA tournament until the 2026-2027 season? Regardless, they are also my personal choice. UT-Arlington is mostly a commuter school whereas St. Thomas has more students living on campus.
I personally don't see why ut Arlington is being considered. They are really far outside the MVC sway of influence. Although GCU was considered and being talked about as I know pretty well (Sorry Folks). As for if it should matter, I think JMU proves that even with eligibility sanctions, you can build your fanbase and get good ratings
