Building a consistent contender in College Basketball especially at the mid-major level is more of a reflection on the school than the coach.
Post Bryce Drew’s exit what has Valparaiso done facilities wise to keep up with the MVC (yes including Horizon)? What has the school done to increase a want for more attractive individuals at the campus housing, institution, and atmospheric levels?
sorry to burst pipes. But the problem isn’t Roger Powell. Roger has shown the ability to be a highly successful cog in a working machine as a player, a highly successful level assistant, and here at Valparaiso where the University ranks in the portion of its conference in many recruiting pieces.
However, since Bryce, and very largely since COVID. It seems like athletics is trying to spend as little as possible (outside of the Powell hiring, gave them their flowers) and product optimum results.
with the state of Valparaiso, the school and institution, we are expected to be a bottom feeder of the MVC. Roger increased the talent from year 1 to year 2 and it’s proven tangible results. We have more wins. But teams don’t flip a switch and become relevant, especially at Valparaiso.
If it does fall into place it’ll take time. It’ll be a group of 4 year guys like the Van Wyk, Broekhoff or Peters, Adekoya teams. If it does not, Roger will find another job seamlessly and it will be the same MVC Valpo.
I, along with most of us in frustration, wind up wandering into the realm of what more the institution should have been / could be doing to help correct this situation. But then I poke myself to remind me that: we are in mid season and the coaches put players in position to optimize their talents to secure a win and players use their skills and determination, when put into those positions, to secure a win.
And leading up to and then during the 3-win streak, that WAS meshing. Then something(s) changed. Was it in coaching or was it within the players? What was done differently? What changed? I’m at a total loss. We fans can’t do a thing but boil over about it. But only they, together, are the ones who can bring back that feeling they had prior to the losing streak.
Another sad aspect was the poor attendance at a game during All-Sports Reunion weekend in which dozens of current athletes received their letter jackets at a ceremony and members of the new class in the Athletics Hall of Fame, including the whole 1975 Track and Field team, were introduced and honored. The official attendance was 1401, only slightly higher than the ongoing home average for this season, which stands at a paltry 1380 (almost 100 lower than last year's 1478). It is becoming difficult to remember those years when the average home game attendance for a season was over 3000, hitting a peak in 2015-2016 at 3573.
That wasn't the peak attendance season. Peak attendance was when I was on campus in the early 2000s, when we were 4,000+ average. It was rare that a game didn't have most of the Mezz filled.
Thanks for the correction valpotx. Average home attendance in 2001-2002 was 4530 and 2002-2003 was 4376. Those figures at more than 3 times this year's 1380 thus far make the current attendance look even more pathetic.
I am going to say it a little louder this time. Valpo does not have the resources, nor does it have any intentions to committing the resources to be able to effectively compete in the Missouri Valley. The Horizon League has 11 teams and is still a good geographic fit. We would almost certainly be more competitive even in down years. I would support the "downgrade" in a heartbeat. The alternative is to continue to bang our head against the wall in the MVC and expect different results that just aren't coming unless we stumble on an Alec Peters again. Only to lose them to transfer after one year given the current transfer/NIL rules.
It's ironic to even contemplate a "downgrade" after arguing with many others to upgrade from the Mid-Continent to the Horizon, and then to the Valley. But the pros and cons might need a look.
The NCAA world has changed since we joined the MVC. As said in recent few posts, the new NIL rules and the transfer portal scoop up the mid-major stars as soon as they emerge. Midwest schools (other than "P4" flagships) are also starving for money and can't spend further on sports. If playing MVC basketball teams at home isn't driving strong ticket revenue upward, driving major donations, or improving enrollment in provable ways, how can you invest money in facilities? Bradley and Drake face nearly the same financial pressures, but they built their arenas before all of the head winds emerged. Competing for a #10 or #11 seed in the "The Dance" rather than a #15 or #16 may a nominal reason to be in the MVC.
Powell is in a tough spot. I still have no idea if he's a good coach or not. He doesn't have the roster to determine if he's a good coach or not. Despite some....including Powell to some degree... trying to play this roster up during the offseason, it is limited in talent. It seems as if every player has a major flaw or two which hurts their game and downstreams to the overall teams performance. They can't play slow. They can't play fast...which I think is what Powell would prefer. They can't shoot or rebound to the level required to be an effective team on the floor. Multiple players are playing out of position or being forced to play a role they are not really made for.
If Powell remains he runs the risk of running his own career down the toilet before it really gets started. So it will be interesting to see what happens during the offseason. Without a firm commitment from the school, its possible that Powell abandons the ship rather than trying fight those with tanks with a handgun.
We'll see.
OK. Took a break to focus on academics but here is my 2 cents.
I agree with the above from JD. You have guys playing out of position and it is really tough to get things to work when you are playing in spots you dont play. Cooper is not a center. He may be "tall" enough for the position, but his body type is not one that typically works on centers unless they are towers like Edey and Wemby. He is getting out matched down low because he
1. Isn't comfortable with the center position
2. Isnt built for the center position
But he fights. Day in and day out he fights for the ball and for his team. So I cannot say anything negative about someone who cares about his team and his brothers on the floor.
Anyone who took this job would risk running their career into the ground. This is/was a bottom feeder team in a good conference that is underfunded and playing in a gym that is smaller than high school gyms in the same state. (not even the big gyms. Avg high school gyms beat that 5k mark. Tiernan Center in Richmond used to be a big gym until the fire marshal forced them to reduce capacity during a renovation. Even then it still seats more.) It is really difficult to recruit high caliber talent when you play in a crummy facility with crummy money at a school that has Chicago Tribune breathing down its neck looking for another hit piece. Somehow Powell is still able to get talent to come here. So I will give him his flowers on proving to be a good recruiter in year 1, and being a good recruiter in year 0(I consider last year to be a year 0 with the late hire) in getting us Cooper and Wright from Link. That connection is going to prove useful as long as Powell stays. Despite the record, Powell is out in the community getting Valpo's name out there and engaging in NIL opportunities that are aligned with the Christian values of the school. He claims he wanted this job and that is why he took it in the first place, whether you believe him is up to you.
This string of losses has taught me a number of things, but here are 2 of the most prominent examples of what I have learned
You cannot survive in the valley without a dominant big to harass the driving lanes. A lot of these losses come from a lack of presence in the interior on both sides of the ball. Notice how a lot of these games you see career performances from bigs? That's largely because Valpo simply doesn't have a counter for them besides the brothers Schweiger. Which Coop has stepped up to try and accommodate for. Obviously there is Louth and Scroggins, but it seems they either aren't ready, or didn't work.
Valpo has gotten a lot more respect from teams in this league after the first few games. The string of 3 games and performances against Drake and Bradley, at least in my opinion, were caused by teams taking Valpo as a "free win" rather than a serious opponent. Teams are likely scouting this roster more closely than past seasons, and its working because this team has some serious holes you can exploit. Its up to Powell in recruitment and the coaching staff/players in practice to fill these holes. Which haven't been effectively dealt with this year. That is a coaching failure. You need to find counters to these exploits that teams are using with the guys you have.
This roster is still young. You have 6 upper classman on this roster out of 17 total. That is a young team. The starting 5 from the last few games have been on avg 2 upper classman and 3 underclassman.
Bradley is running out with a roster of mostly seniors and 5th years.
Illinois state runs with a roster of 3 upperclassman and 2 underclassman. With 1 underclassman being a 6'7'' 270lb big man
UIC runs out a 4-1 split usually
It takes time to develop talent. Unfortunately, most athletes now consider MM basketball to be the "minor leagues" where they stay until greener pastures come calling with a paycheck. Until regulation comes(which likely will not occur seeing as the supreme court has something against the NCAA) this will continue and mid majors will be picked for parts.
I wouldn't say Valpo is "uninterested" in providing resources for the MVC. I think its more of a case that they just can't get the cash flow to try and fund those resources. That massive debt on the non-athletic sector affects the athletic sector as well. Athletic purchases and advancements cannot be made until the financial situation improves. Unfortunately, in order to improve the financial situation, you have to improve the enrollment situation. Unless VU is interested, and other Indiana institutions are going to allow them to (doubtful!), in pulling a "Rutgers". Valpo will remain an enrollment funded institution. They are at least trying to provide some form of athletic funding. Particularly in the realm of corporate sponsors. Much like the deal with U Chicago Med replacing Northwest Health. How much UCMed is providing in funding and where, I am still unaware, but hey, its something at least.
As for attendance. Any level of sports org can live by these words. "If your product is not good. No one will buy into it." The one exception to this rule that I have found is the NFL. Even the Bears can still sell tickets to Soldier Field. But this is the only exception. Across all other sports, especially the big 3 in America. If you are not providing a good product, people will not show up. IN the early 2000s and 2010s, VU was providing a good enough product that people would come to the games. Now, they are not. If you want to see people show up, win games. This year alone can prove that more people were showing up while the going was good. Especially students.
As for the MVC. It was a good decision at the time. Valpo had a good resume to join the MVC, and the MVC has a much higher payout potential than the HL does. VU makes more money in the MVC than they did in the HL from both MM units and the MVC tv deals. I would not take the downgrade. That downgrade gets you less exposure, less money, and does not guarantee you dominate like years past. Arguing for a downgrade is a reflection on how much fans reminisce on the glory days of the HL and Mid-Con instead of facing the reality at hand. The MVC is a top 10 conference and a top 3 mid major conference. The HL barely cracks top 20.
Rez - excellent, let’s face reality post. I agree that Valpo should stay in the MVC and try to improve their product. I also believe PoweLLLLLLLLL is doing all he can, but is certainly not free of critique in his coaching and direction of the program. The downfall of the program is certainly caused by recent issues at Valparaiso University, but also past decisions and leadership in past decades. Heckler was obviously the wrong president in establishing a vision and direction for the university, and this has affected the downswing of the flagship program.
Another perspective could be the separation of have and have nots in D1 mens basketball with recent NIL and liberal transfer policies. Mid majors are becoming minor leagues for the power 4 conferences, and IMO this will be more and more detrimental to the college basketball product at a national level.
Regarding recruiting, this is volatile - team rosters have been and will continue to change significantly on an annual, perhaps within a season, basis. Keeping players for a full 4 years is an exception. The transfer rules need serious regulation.
As for the MVC. It was a good decision at the time. Valpo had a good resume to join the MVC, and the MVC has a much higher payout potential than the HL does. VU makes more money in the MVC than they did in the HL from both MM units and the MVC tv deals. I would not take the downgrade. That downgrade gets you less exposure, less money, and does not guarantee you dominate like years past. Arguing for a downgrade is a reflection on how much fans reminisce on the glory days of the HL and Mid-Con instead of facing the reality at hand. The MVC is a top 10 conference and a top 3 mid major conference. The HL barely cracks top 20.
So the reason to stay is that we can collect more money finishing in the bottom three which is preferable to being competitive with less revenue. Not sure that I am sold. I am also not sure that the added exposure of the MVC has yielded better recruiting classes relative to the rest of the league.
If your only reason to be in the MVC is to get more money, then next you have to explain how that money is resulting in better consistent results in basketball and other sports.
.and playing in a gym that is smaller than high school gyms in the same state. (not even the big gyms. Avg high school gyms beat that 5k mark. Tiernan Center in Richmond used to be a big gym until the fire marshal forced them to reduce capacity during a renovation. Even then it still seats more.) It is really difficult to recruit high caliber talent when you play in a crummy facility
This age old argument is laughable. Sure there are bigger, nicer facilities but kids play for a coach or style, not seating capacity. You focus on high school gyms being bigger. I could show you dozens of high school football stadiums in Texas that were bigger than 90% of college stadiums.
So let's take a look at some well known A-10 schools and their basketball arenas:
LaSalle seats 3400, last renovated 1998
George Washington seats 4738 built in 1975
St. Joes seats 4200 built in 1949
St. Bonaventure seats 4860 built in 1966
Fordham seats 3200 built in 1925
Davidson seats 5223 built in 1989
Duquesne seats 3500 built in 1988
Richmond seats 5765 built in 1972
and Valpo seats 5000 built in 1984.
Sure we would like to have smoothies and lattes at the game but we have a lot of fish to fry first. Like putting a winning team on the floor. Seating capacity is certainly not our problem.
@vu72 You should add
Loyola (Gentile Arena) 4,381 for BB built 1996, renovated 2011
Of note is that the 2011 renovation reduced the capacity from 5,200, but upgraded the quality of seating along with concessions and stuff.
.and playing in a gym that is smaller than high school gyms in the same state. (not even the big gyms. Avg high school gyms beat that 5k mark. Tiernan Center in Richmond used to be a big gym until the fire marshal forced them to reduce capacity during a renovation. Even then it still seats more.) It is really difficult to recruit high caliber talent when you play in a crummy facility
This age old argument is laughable. Sure there are bigger, nicer facilities but kids play for a coach or style, not seating capacity. You focus on high school gyms being bigger. I could show you dozens of high school football stadiums in Texas that were bigger than 90% of college stadiums.
So let's take a look at some well known A-10 schools and their basketball arenas:
LaSalle seats 3400, last renovated 1998
George Washington seats 4738 built in 1975
St. Joes seats 4200 built in 1949
St. Bonaventure seats 4860 built in 1966
Fordham seats 3200 built in 1925
Davidson seats 5223 built in 1989
Duquesne seats 3500 built in 1988
Richmond seats 5765 built in 1972
and Valpo seats 5000 built in 1984.
Sure we would like to have smoothies and lattes at the game but we have a lot of fish to fry first. Like putting a winning team on the floor. Seating capacity is certainly not our problem.
Look, I know Its a laughable argument to claim size alone matters. But size isn't the only argument against the ARC. It has a "high school feel" as some have noted here. Heck there are testimonies from Valpo fans here that brought buddies to games and said "This is a D1 gym". The ARC looks and feels like a high school gym. Those gyms you listed from the A-10 BIL feel like a D1 facility. You may have a few outliers here and there, but we Hoosiers are spoiled with our HS gyms so our viewpoint of what a "HS gym" is going to be different than other states. To a potential recruit. The ARC is a tough sell. Obviously VU does not need to have a 10k seat megaplex with all the bells and whistles, but the ARC is still an arena that most feel like is not a D1 facility. Drake was fortunate to have renovated the Knapp center into a facility that looks and feels like a D1 arena. Drake is also spoiled with having a Major arena in Des Moines that they can play in if a Marquee game comes around. However, like I said, you have to have green to improve it. Valpo is stuck with the ARC for the foreseeable future. Powell and Co are going to have to find new ways to get high level talent in the building and ignore the glaring issues of facilities. For the most part, he has been able to do so.
As for the MVC. It was a good decision at the time. Valpo had a good resume to join the MVC, and the MVC has a much higher payout potential than the HL does. VU makes more money in the MVC than they did in the HL from both MM units and the MVC tv deals. I would not take the downgrade. That downgrade gets you less exposure, less money, and does not guarantee you dominate like years past. Arguing for a downgrade is a reflection on how much fans reminisce on the glory days of the HL and Mid-Con instead of facing the reality at hand. The MVC is a top 10 conference and a top 3 mid major conference. The HL barely cracks top 20.
So the reason to stay is that we can collect more money finishing in the bottom three which is preferable to being competitive with less revenue. Not sure that I am sold. I am also not sure that the added exposure of the MVC has yielded better recruiting classes relative to the rest of the league.
If your only reason to be in the MVC is to get more money, then next you have to explain how that money is resulting in better consistent results in basketball and other sports.
The exposure does matter. It matters to potential corporate sponsors. It matters to potential donors who are not school affiliated. In more recent years, that exposure matters to potential NIL opportunities for potential players. Valpo probably would not have been able to secure their sponsorship with UChicago med if not for the help they get from being in a Creme of the Crop Mid Major league. As for the money, Most mid majors spend that money to fund scholarships for their basketball programs. I do not know if Valpo spends that money on scholarships or not, but March madness units and TV deals sure help the bottom line. MVC generates more potential national TV games, which means more money for the conference to be distributed as conferences like the MVC and A-10 leverage their high caliber for better deals than leagues like HL, and more potential for multiple bids come time for the "Big Dance". You get 2 million dabloons for just making the tournament and more money for each round the league representative progresses. I don't know exactly how the MVC distributes that, some leagues distribute on incentive based models, but it is definitely a lot more money(and a potential for a lot more money) than the HL provided
DePaul makes around 4.5 million from the Big East. They are a bottom feeder in the Big East and have been for longer than Valpo has been in the MVC. I don't see them wanting to go back to the C-USA anytime soon. Largely due to the reasons above.
There are many A-10 programs that have crappier gym setups than us, when you look at the pictures
