If we were in Horizon we would have less transfers. Assuming we would not get as good a caliber of player as we do in MVC..could help us retain players and build a program...if we ever did get another Peters type player they would transfer whether we were in Horizon or MVC so no difference
Claiming I am stuck in the past when you are the one who wants to go back to the HL is rich. Also you are a pot calling the kettle claiming I am reverting to insults. You have belittled others for sharing their opinions and made less than flattering comments on players and coaches in the past. So claiming that I revert to insults is quite rich. In fact, you dont comment at all on the successes of Valpo. You only seem to come here to rant about the failures of Valpo. As a dedicated season ticket holder like yourself, why do you only want to spread negativity and failure? If I must have work on myself. My suggestion is a mirror for yourself.
You completely missed my point, or just dont want to acknowledge the point I was making because it doesnt fit your narrative. So once again I will become a broken record. The prestige of the MVC is exactly what gets you transfers and high level HS recruits. Sure, high majors aren't recruiting HS kids anymore and are electing to get them from places like Valpo, but your talent level of recruit in a league like the HL diminishes. The MVC is what gets you better transfers and better overall recruits. This isnt the 90s. Alec Peters doesnt look for a Valpo. Ryan Broekhoff doesnt look for a Valpo. Buggs doesnt look for a Valpo. You know what got them here? Prestige, and a little bit of misdirection on the account of the coaching staff. Back to prestige, Back then that prestige was the Valpo basketball standard and the fact that the HL was, at that time, a better than avg mid major conference with Valpo and Butler leading the pack. The Prestige of the coaching staff which, at the time, was Bryce Drew coming off of the success of both his father and brother. That prestige sells and historically sold well for Valpo in the late 2000s and early 2010s. Alec Peters turned down offers from BC, Mizzou, and Tennessee for Valpo, do you think he does that without the prestige the program had at the time? Similarly, the prestige of the MVC is a selling point for Powell and his staff to get recruits such as Pettigrew, Wright, Schwieger, and transfers such as Stafford. Link Academy was a well known feeder program for MO State before Powell came along. I doubt they would engage in good conversations, despite being friendly with Powell previously, if Valpo was in a league that currently ranks 19th on the pecking board. 19th, might I add, being a "good year" for the conference which regularly sits at the mid to high 20s. Learn it, know it, Live it.
Indiana State had completely different circumstances to Drake for getting in. Indiana State did not have a good non-Conference slate to boost their metrics, Drake had a convincing one. Now if you want to blame that on p5 schools refusing to play good mid major programs, be my guest. I whole heartedly think that is a reality in college athletics. Drake was able to get a lot of the opportunities they received because they weren't supposed to be good. KSU does not schedule a home game against Drake if they were slated to be top of the MVC. A home game that was originally a neutral site game until Drake protested the game. Drake was able to get that game because they were a school with a new coach and a DII roster. It just so happens that Drake hired the best coach in DII with one of the best rosters in DII and the CBB world underestimated that fact. Aside from K-State, the win against Vanderbilt proved useful. Looking at ISU, they had Bama and MSU on their resume, both of which were losses, with the Bama loss being a bad one. Drake also did not have as embarrassing of losses as ISU had in the conference slate. Back to back losses to a middling ISU and SIU team, one of those losses being at home, doesnt help your resume come march. Especially with a record number of bid stealers
You will have to work harder to rebuild in the HL. You dont get the level of talent in the HL that you have access to in the MVC. That talent is also much more willing to want to leave as there is a wider variety of "better leagues" in which to shine at and potentially get noticed. Instead of being a p5 feeder, you become a MM and p5 feeder. So there is even less incentive to stay at a lower league. Kinda hard to "Just win" when you still have the same problem of being gutted, and are in a situation where its either the same as before, or much worse than before. Sure, one could argue that everyone else is in the same boat as you, which you did, but tell me this. How would that situation be any different from the current one. Everyone having to rebuild every year at the MM level. You just trade out the current situation for one with less talent and in a worse conference. That fixes nothing. No one here is sidestepping the fact that getting gutted every year will happen. What you dont seem to aknowlege is that that happens regardless of if Valpo is in the MVC or the HL. So what you suggest VU does is trade out the MVC for the HL and solves nothing because everyone is getting gutted anyway. Accept it.
You claim you dont mind if people leave as long as we are in a lesser league. Well then. How would you replace players? Its as you said, you cannot guarantee success in the HL. Your Hyperbole and sayings are dodging the point. If Valpo were to move down, there is no guarantee of "Just Winning" like you want. You know what there is a gaurntee of, a quicker and more painful death of the D1 nature of VU. Look at what is happening to schools in the Northeast. They are moving out of D1 entirely. The HL is the 19th ranked conference in the country. Granted, schools that are leaving D1 are at the level of the MAAC MEAC, Patriot, ect, but the HL is having a "good year" at that 19th spot. They typically hover around that 25th spot. HL schools are closing D1 programs as we speak as well. Cleveland State has seen its last wrestling mat.
You claim you would rather finish in the top half of a lower league than the bottom half of a better one. Yet, as you said, there is no guarantee of "just winning" at that lower level. So the prospect of going to a lower level and "just winning" is immediately defeated right there without all the various reasonings provided as to why moving down is a horrendous decision. Like you said, its a 1 bid league, would you rather play in a league with a higher probability of making you more money, which can be used towards improving the student athlete experience, or would you rather use that 1 bid for a league with a lower probability of winning games in the big dance and earning less money to try and improve the current situation?
No other mid major has weight? I'd say the MW had weight, at least before they were poached by the PAC-whatever? However, since they are currently breaking into the new PAC and the MW, I guess we will all just have to wait and see how that situation turns out.
But here is the bottom line:
You cannot guarantee this top half finish in a lower league.
You cannot guarantee that the team "Just wins"
You cannot guarantee the situation improves'
However, staying in the MVC poses a higher chance of the situation improving for the reasons above, and the reasons many of the people who argue for staying suggest. So if you want to "just win" it would be more beneficial to stay in the MVC than move to the HL. The points you make yourself even prove this notion. Your "eight years of evidence" are under 1 coaching staff, and are plagued by multiple misfortunes that are not the fault of the basketball team. Valpo was and still is a bad team, at the wrong time in the era of NIL. Moving leagues will do nothing to improve that situation. In fact, the situation for a lot of schools, not just Valpo, and even MVC peers, is trending towards the current state of the Valpo program.
The only thing we can all do at this point is hope that the house settlement provides a path for regulation and compensation of the Mid Major programs.
Good lord 16 pages of 5-6 people repeating themselves. Let me paraphrase and shut this down
Some want to stay in the MVC
Some want to drop down
No matter how long the post no one is charging their mind.
No one is wrong
tl;dr
But i did see that conference prestige and getting more money from other team's success are high priorities for you.
I've repeated a few times that there are no guarantees of success in the HL. Yet you keep shouting that as a gotcha. We may stink in the HL too. But one thing is a guarantee. We do stink in the MVC. We are consistently the stinkiest. But hey, its a prestigious kinda stinky!
the team quality will decrease going to the HL, whether you win or not. As for just wanting to win, I don't deal well with particpation trophies for my experience as a dance dad.
Oh, and then consider endowments ... for what that's worth as an indicator of possible donors ... Valpo is ~200 million ... Drake is double that
Not sure where you are getting your numbers. 2024 numbers show Valpo's endowment at 312 million and Drake's at 306 million.
Oh, and then consider endowments ... for what that's worth as an indicator of possible donors ... Valpo is ~200 million ... Drake is double that
Not sure where you are getting your numbers. 2024 numbers show Valpo's endowment at 312 million and Drake's at 306 million.
VU's endowment could be in the Billons that it still won't get any push to be a heavy hitter in the NIL space not only in the MVC or any conference if we're being honest.
Concerning endowment: https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/Endowment/State/IN/
Looks like Ellis is portaling, eh?
Looks like Ellis is portaling, eh?
Id be surprised if if he wasn’t but don’t see him in quite yet. Not sure where he might land. Maybe down a level.
It looks like he entered the portal. He is now in the 247 sports portal tracker.
Oh, and then consider endowments ... for what that's worth as an indicator of possible donors ... Valpo is ~200 million ... Drake is double that
Not sure where you are getting your numbers. 2024 numbers show Valpo's endowment at 312 million and Drake's at 306 million.
VU's endowment could be in the Billons that it still won't get any push to be a heavy hitter in the NIL space not only in the MVC or any conference if we're being honest.
Until schools start using endowment money to fund sports, this has zero relevance to the argument. Not gonna happen.
No surprise that Ellis would enter the portal, and I have to believe that Louth will do the same. Both can get minutes at a lower level than the MVC, in order to finish their careers. I am surprised that Carson is not portaling as of yet, but maybe he is hoping to prove his own worth and fill Cooper's minutes, which would be a nice surprise. Tyler needs to be given one of the open scholarships, if he doesn't portal.
No surprise that Ellis would enter the portal, and I have to believe that Louth will do the same. Both can get minutes at a lower level than the MVC, in order to finish their careers. I am surprised that Carson is not portaling as of yet, but maybe he is hoping to prove his own worth and fill Cooper's minutes, which would be a nice surprise. Tyler needs to be given one of the open scholarships, if he doesn't portal.
With Ellis...I think there was more going on there than simply poor play. It's odd going from the guy playing the best on the roster at the start of the season to very spot usage that quickly without some other event(s). Carson should stay. He may get playing time when I'm not sure he gets it elsewhere. Schmidt staying would provide some stability.
the team quality will decrease going to the HL, whether you win or not. As for just wanting to win, I don't deal well with particpation trophies for my experience as a dance dad.
Kudos to you for being that rare Valpo fan who did not come aboard until we joined the MVC. Not common. The Bryce/Homer years were just participation trophies in the eyes of @USC4valpo. Just wow on that statement in diminishing the entire history that built the Valpo name in college basketball. Our origin is the Mid-Con which was an absolute bottom feeder in the college basketball world. Sad that you have no respect for it as a dance dad.
