Interesting comments on the Murray State message board at the end of the Missouri State game thread bemoaning their decision to join the MVC and hoping their coach gets fired. I would guess Belmont fans are feeling the same. The team that destroyed us most certainly would have won the OVC, yet they got their butts kicked in the MVC quarterfinals. No one knows this feeling of despair better than we do. What really caught my attention were the negative NIL comments. Someone said that MSU players were getting $15k across the board. Another poster claimed 1 player was getting $40k. Across the board in men’s fb and bb, NIL has turned into pay-for-play. Teams aren’t getting out recruited, but out bid. I have no clue how Valpo will ever be able to compete in this crazy, out-of-control environment. Thoughts?
Interesting comments on the Murray State message board at the end of the Missouri State game thread bemoaning their decision to join the MVC and hoping their coach gets fired. I would guess Belmont fans are feeling the same. The team that destroyed us most certainly would have won the OVC, yet they got their butts kicked in the MVC quarterfinals. No one knows this feeling of despair better than we do. What really caught my attention were the negative NIL comments. Someone said that MSU players were getting $15k across the board. Another poster claimed 1 player was getting $40k. Across the board in men’s fb and bb, NIL has turned into pay-for-play. Teams aren’t getting out recruited, but out bid. I have no clue how Valpo will ever be able to compete in this crazy, out-of-control environment. Thoughts?
Schools cannot pay you NIL money. A lot of schools have adopted NIL collectives including Valpo. These NIL collectives are paid for by local businesses, alumni, and brands. These NIL collectives at a sort of portal to allow athletes electing for NIL money to obtain money in the "alumni pool" which is usually distributed amongst students equally, or to meet with brands and buisnesses. You cannot view these collectives until you
A) Physically attend a school.
B) Elect to take part in NIL
There is no "pay for play" per se, more so the more exposure your team gets, the more money you get. This largely changes nothing as students are already more likely to attend programs that are historic, or known to be good in their respective sports.
There is a lot of misconception surrounding NIL. The most prominent is that the schools take part in NIL ventures when it is illegal to do so. Most low major programs dont even offer these NIL collectives. It's just like a contract with a NBA, MLB, NFL, etc. The better you play, the more money you will be making. In my opinion, the transfer portal is the real enemy of the sport as you can transfer up to 2 times before penalties are accrued for disloyalty to your schools.
EDIT: I would like to aknowlege the comments you provided from message boards.
Murray state players each receive 15k is largely because of the alumni portion of their NIL portal. The player receiving 40k is probably a star player who was able to secure a deal with a local shoe brand or something similar. As I said in the unedited portion, you get more money the better you play in the end.
Here is an example. John Basketball receives an offer from both Purdue and Valpo. At Valpo, he is being promised a starting job, and a full ride, and is going to be entering the NIL portal that Valpo provides. At Purdue, he will be a red-shirt freshman, and Purdue is also recruiting a multitude of other players at his position. He is also attempting to enter NIL at Purdue.
Where do you think John Basketball should go to get the best shot at earning NIL money.
In my opinion, he should go to Valpo. The starting job will be able to boost his numbers and give him the best shot at earning money. Purdue, while having more money and bigger NIL deals on the market, would not be very beneficial to his situation as he is probably going to get the same amount of money from the Purdue alumni pool, and he isn't going to be able to grow his NIL for another year at least. Purdue is also able to replace him faster and is ultimately a higher risk for John with no clear path to the court and to the money!
As for their teams probably winning the OVC. The current teams could, but OVC is a low-major conference, and they left to join a premier mid-major conference. This increased their talent pool significantly with the jump in recognition via conference. The MVC payouts are also very generous to reflect the high standing the conference is in across the NCAA.
I know how NIL is supposed to work, and it isn’t working that way in many cases. Some collectives are guaranteeing payouts for recruits. They line up NIL opportunities after-the-fact that require next to nothing from the athletes to make the whole thing look legit. That has to be what’s going on at Murray State; otherwise, NIL payouts would vary from player to player. Even at schools where no up front money is guaranteed, school with big collectives are paying out disproportionate large amounts. That leaves little old Valpo with its tiny alumni base that hails from everywhere but locally in an impossible situation. College kids are no different than adults. If another employer is willing to give you a big fat pay raise to do the same job, 9 out 10 people will jump at the chance. It’s the biggest hurdle Valpo has by far as it tries to resurrect its program from the ashes. Just add it to the list of disadvantages - destroyed image and reputation, HS gym, terrible fan/student support, laughing stock of the conference, tiny alumni base, no major donors, declining enrollment, cutting program after program, bad credit rating, small town/ limited NIL donors, on and on.
I said this topic would be negative. Sometimes negative and reality are synonymous. This is one such time.
@whvalpo With the alumni pool, they basically can guarantee money as the alumni pool is split between all athletes who participate in NIL. Also the 15k that you mentioned is just a guarantee, the players could be receiving more from their respective NIL portals. The alumni pool is split evenly between all participating NIL athletes. The big collectives are largely built up by community support which Valpo lacks. The teams/players that are good will be able to get more money. Valpo is what you would call a "small market" team in terms of MLB and NBA. The good thing about the NCAAMB is that "small market" team can grow into a bigger market as long as they perform well. Take ISU for example. All those players probably got a huge boost to their paychecks after people cared about them again. We just need to hope that Powell can make the team better, and marketing can eventually build up a good standing with the area that businesses will become part of the NIL portal.
EDIT:
Forgot to mention, but incentives for joining a certain program aren't new. Nick Saban was doing it for basically his entire career at Bama. Did that stop other people from not being competitive for the College Football title? In my opinion, NIL wont change the landscape as much as people are going to think. Sure some things will change, but Mid Majors wont die when it comes to college basketball.
Enough. FBS programs knowingly funneled booster funds to players for years. Acknowledged. Dead issue.
Now, schools who are capable of providing NIL $$$ pass-thus from local sources are doing so, but now it’s “Legal” cuz the barrier has been dropped. Acknowledged. It is what it is.
So freakin what!
That is not the issue for Valpo. The issue is whether VU wants to jump into this swamp and somehow keep from drowning.
When Valpo opted for DI back in the day, I believe it never intended to participate in the current S#!+ show.
Screw the ESPN SportCenter DI crawler. Personally, I’d rather see us in DII and competing for national championships at that level than having to confront the crap that is modern DI sports.
Of course a $20+ million donation to Valpo athletics and a new $45 million arena popping up overnight might change my mind.
As predicted on this board for years, the damage done by NIL has only begun. Conferences and programs are separating into unofficial tiers based upon the ability to provide NIL money to athletes. In fact, NCAA President Charlie Baker has already proposed a possible official creation of tiers in the future. The top tier of Division I programs would require a minimum annual investment of $30,000 per athlete into an "enhanced educational trust fund" for at least half of a school's NCAA-countable athletes. The funds would be paid directly from the schools, making the payments subject to Title IX compliance, which means half the money must go to female student-athletes.
It is not feasible for many Division I programs outside the FBS to pay their athletes $30,000 annually. Therefore, the 360-plus Division I schools will be split into two tiers, upper-level schools receiving insurmountable advantages over those in lower tiers. The top revenue generating powerhouse conferences will compete in tier 1, which would compensate its players with $30,000 salaries to start plus bonus NIL money. Tier 2 would consist of programs that generate just enough revenue to sustain athletics but not to directly compensate student-athletes outside of scholarship fees.
For example, it is reported that the Big Ten's media deals pay nearly one hundred million dollars annually to each of its member institutions, while other conferences pay less than a tenth of that amount to their schools: for example. the Mountain West Conference's media deals pay seven million annually to member schools. [I am not sure how much the MVC pays its member schools, but I am curious.] Combined with the unrestricted transfer portal, this establishes a system in which the smaller programs become nothing more than a version of baseball's minor leagues with the larger programs as the "major league." Add to this the complication that college athletes will be choosing to unionize and demand direct salaries and other monetary or supplemental benefits from universities. Northwestern football tried to unionize a couple years ago but were denied after the university pressured the union. However, now Dartmouth's basketball team voted last week to join SEIU Local 560.
@vulb62 I never claimed anywhere that these would solve VUs issues or make them anything less than they were. OP asked for thoughts on NIL and I gave them. In regards to VY, they are currently surviving off of non profit donors to a separate NIL collective and that is atrocious for a D1 school. Go talk to marketing if you have issues with businesses not supporting. If you want the Valpo Exchange to work, you need marketing to make businesses care to give their money to local athletes. Why do you think we hired a coach whose entire stchick was getting local talent and building a community Prescence? Better late than never.
@valpopal These decisions were also done with only College Football in mind. They did not take into account CBB or any other college sport. Its no wonder the NCAA never wanted to allow NIL in the first place and had to be sued to do so. They knew the integrity of college sports would be threatened. While I still believe the effects wont be as monstrous as some claim, this will leave the 16 seed beating the 1 seed a lot more rare of an outcome
As predicted on this board for years, the damage done by NIL has only begun. Conferences and programs are separating into unofficial tiers based upon the ability to provide NIL money to athletes. In fact, NCAA President Charlie Baker has already proposed a possible official creation of tiers in the future. The top tier of Division I programs would require a minimum annual investment of $30,000 per athlete into an "enhanced educational trust fund" for at least half of a school's NCAA-countable athletes. The funds would be paid directly from the schools, making the payments subject to Title IX compliance, which means half the money must go to female student-athletes.
It is not feasible for many Division I programs outside the FBS to pay their athletes $30,000 annually. Therefore, the 360-plus Division I schools will be split into two tiers, upper-level schools receiving insurmountable advantages over those in lower tiers. The top revenue generating powerhouse conferences will compete in tier 1, which would compensate its players with $30,000 salaries to start plus bonus NIL money. Tier 2 would consist of programs that generate just enough revenue to sustain athletics but not to directly compensate student-athletes outside of scholarship fees.
For example, it is reported that the Big Ten's media deals pay nearly one hundred million dollars annually to each of its member institutions, while other conferences pay less than a tenth of that amount to their schools: for example. the Mountain West Conference's media deals pay seven million annually to member schools. [I am not sure how much the MVC pays its member schools, but I am curious.] Combined with the unrestricted transfer portal, this establishes a system in which the smaller programs become nothing more than a version of baseball's minor leagues with the larger programs as the "major league." Add to this the complication that college athletes will be choosing to unionize and demand direct salaries and other monetary or supplemental benefits from universities. Northwestern football tried to unionize a couple years ago but were denied after the university pressured the union. However, now Dartmouth's basketball team voted last week to join SEIU Local 560.
A couple of relevant thoughts come to mind. Only conferences that have big time football are going to be able to afford to pay $30k salaries for student athletes. Thus, the scuttlebutt is that tier 1 will limited to the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, and ACC. There is a recognition by the SEC and Big 10, who are controlling the whole show, that March Madness is a huge moneymaker; thus tier 2 schools would be invited to participate, albeit they would have no chance given all the best athletes will be playing for the money schools. Presumably, the biggest loser in this would be the Big East, which could never meet the $30k floor w/o fb. Again, this is scuttlebutt.
The power conferences control and will increasingly control the direction of sports within the framework of the current NCAA...which may not be in existence in its current form in 5 years.
As far as Valpo is concerned, the chances of Valpo's MBB program being competitive within that framework...or perhaps even part of it... is very small. However, having said that, whatever lower level competition comes out on the other side of things there is opportunity to be competitive. This would be the MVC or wherever Valpo and the mid majors end up when the dust settles. NIL is likely to be part of that although less so than at the power conference schools.
The NCAA leadership and the cronyistic decision making, particularly under Emmert, has caused the NIL situation. The NCAA has little power today and the power conferences are creating this scenario. Requesting the NCAA to take any action is a hopeless cause.
Ultimately, The CBB Committee needs to fight the CFB Committee. Every decision going forward is being made with the expressed interest of College Football over everything else when College Basketball is just as big of a deal as college football. CBB is built with Mid-Major participation in mind, CFB only cares about the power conferences, or rather the B10 and the SEC.
IN my opinion, there is going to be a major suit in the future if the B10 and the SEC intend to form their athletic association or the NCAA intends to make the "money tier".
The NCAA is only powerless because every time they try to make rules to crack down on exploitation, they get suid. Just look at Tennessee V NCAA or Ohio et al vs NCAA. The NCAA tries to crack down on the transfer portal and the boosters, but gets sued for trying to protect the integrity of their sports. Hell even NIL being allowed was caused via a lawsuit.
As for the unions developed by the Dartmouth team, since they are employees of the school, they can be fired as employees of the school, or they can be contracted to never transfer ect...
IN my opinion. The perfect case is if CFB becomes its sector of the NCAA (ie NCAAF). They get to make their own rules, conferences, and post-season, and whatever else they deem necessary. NCAA already has minimal control over CFB because of the Oklahoma lawsuit in the 90s. Every other sport is controlled under the current NCAA format.
CBB is built with Mid-Major participation in mind...
College basketball administrators do not care about the health of mid-majors or the participation of schools not among the top six conferences. In fact, they are antagonistic toward guidelines that have assisted programs in smaller conferences. This was made crystal clear in the changes to NIT selection announced at the start of this season, which guarantees selection of at least two schools from the top six conferences, "regardless of win-loss record," and rewards them as hosts of a first-round game.
"For the 2024 NIT, conference regular-season champions that do not win their conference tournament or are not otherwise selected to the NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Championship will not receive an automatic bid to the NIT.
"Instead, the NIT will guarantee two teams (based on the NET rankings) from each of six conferences (Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and Southeastern). The top two teams in the NET rankings not qualifying for the NCAA men's basketball tournament from each conference, regardless of win-loss record, will be selected. Additionally, the 12 teams automatically selected will be guaranteed the opportunity to host a game in the first round of the NIT.
"Once the 12 automatic qualifying schools have been selected, the NIT Committee will select the 20 best teams available to complete the tournament's 32-team field. Based on the NIT Committee's evaluation, the best four teams of the 20 at-large teams selected will complete the 16 first-round hosts, with deference given to the "first four teams out" of the Division I Men's Basketball Championship, as determined by the NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Committee. Additional teams from the six conferences with automatic qualifications are eligible to be selected as at-large teams and can be selected as hosts."
@valpopal THe 12 auto bids also get selected for the NIT as hosts, I do not think this changes exactly who will get selected as the 12 auto bids are still going to be the teams that won their conferences but not the tournament. the NIT has been dying, and guaranteeing 2 Power 6 schools a bid was a decision made with the effort to boost ratings of the NIT, and will get more exposure to the schools involved in the NIT. I am, however, not a fan of using the NIT as an experimental rules league. That hurts the integrity of the NIT tournament as a championship event.
The NCAA makes way too much money off of mid majors upsetting power 6 opponents to act against them in my opinion. Just look at the multitude of clips that still circulate when march madness comes around. You see The Shot played over and over again on TV because people eat those moments up.
@valpopal THe 12 auto bids also get selected for the NIT as hosts, I do not think this changes exactly who will get selected as the 12 auto bids are still going to be the teams that won their conferences but not the tournament.
This simply is not true. Read the text again: "...conference regular-season champions that do not win their conference tournament or are not otherwise selected to the NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Championship will not receive an automatic bid to the NIT."
