Other schools in the MVC are also being picked apart. Eville and SIU amongst the biggest losers with ISUb following close behind. In fact. Evansville is seeing the same ho him and scrooge behavior from their fans as well and some are calling for Evansville to move down a few pegs. ISUr seems to be the only real winner so far as their star big man just confirmed he will be staying with the Redbirds.
Curious, do you guys have some plan for continuing the basketball team if the uni goes under? I DO care and enjoy rooting for the sports teams from time to time, but I admit I am somewhat further from the fandom as some of you, so a lot of this conversation seems kind of like a gambling enterprise (where to put $ money to get wins that may or may not materialize, how to buy $ players that may or may not stay long term, etc). So as somebody more familiar with and invested in the academic programs, and pretty worried about the entire uni going under because of the cratering of the academics and enrollment, I am wondering how you see the sports apparatus continuing if the university is not there to continue it? Are there precedents either in the old era or under the new NIL system where basketball or football teams have gone independent and continued to participate in college sports without a college attached?
Big "NO" No Way!!!
Ask St. Joseph College, Rensselaer, IN, Oh you can't because the school closed and the athletic teams ended too.
Ask McMurray College, Jacksonville, IL nope can't ask them either, they also don't exist.
Get the idea?
As I mentioned before, 14 of 15 All-Conference MVC players transferred or graduated, last year. Did anyone besides Cooper from the All-Freshman team stay for their sophomore year? I’m really curious what will happen this year, as well as, other Mid-major conferences. Everyone keeps thinking that we will be so better off in another conference, but in the world NIL, I don’t see how that helps us. Won’t we be in the same predicament? Our best players will move on for more NIL money than we have.
Yes, correct. The problem will remain with NIL/Transfer Portal. The case for dropping down to a lower conference is so that the gap between the Haves and the Havenots gets smaller. We will still see our stars bolt and a new roster every year. But the goal would be to remain competitive year in and year out with schools that do not have a sizable financial advantage over us.
In fact. Evansville is seeing the same ho him and scrooge behavior from their fans as well and some are calling for Evansville to move down a few pegs.
I am all in for bringing Evansville with to the Horizon. Four Indiana schools in conference would be great! Honestly their experience in the MVC has been very similar to ours, but many more years of misery in the Missouri.
Some on the forum wanted to know Coach Powell's strategy going forward. During an interview in today's NWI Times, Powell offers a few glimpses into his thinking for the future. First, he mirrors comments on here about the sad state of mid-major basketball and a sense of frustration with NCAA rules that cause disparity and harm mid-major schools when he states about Wright and Schwieger:
"(The players) wouldn't have had that opportunity if I hadn't found and developed them and got them to that level," Powell said. "You just got to do it again and I think that's where these mid-major programs in this day and age. Until they change some things, that's kind of where they're going to be."
Although it sounds exasperating to hear Powell once more vow to "do it again," there was an iota of hope in another part of the article where the reporter writes: "Powell feels that with the success Valpo had this year, higher-caliber prospects will start to consider the Beacons more and more, including players from the benches of Power 5 programs." Though not a quote by Powell, I assume this is a paraphrase of Powell acknowledging he might aim to obtain experienced D-1 players from others' rosters rather than prioritizing freshmen recruits.
Powell finally seems to have given up on the "rebuild" model: "It's a different way to build because the way college basketball is now you have to build a new team from scratch every year." The interview ends with Powell acknowledging the obvious, he needs a better arsenal of players: "We got to put the right pieces on the floor and do it with a lot more ammunition than we had last year."
In fact. Evansville is seeing the same ho him and scrooge behavior from their fans as well and some are calling for Evansville to move down a few pegs.
I am all in for bringing Evansville with to the Horizon. Four Indiana schools in conference would be great! Honestly their experience in the MVC has been very similar to ours, but many more years of misery in the Missouri.
Your incessant need for us to be in the HL is persistent Mr Scrooge. Why would EVille go the the HL. Why would anyone want to go to the HL. Less money. Which has been outlined here before. Less exposure. Which has been outlined here before. But on top of that. The level of talent you can recruit is lower. The level of retention for players becomes even more of an issue as, instead of being a platform for P5 programs. You become a platform for P5 programs and a multitude of other leagues who are noe viewed as "better" than yours.
You don't get All Wright if not for the MVC. You don't get Cooper Schwieger if not for the MVC. You don't get JFL if not for the MVC. The notion that Valpo would still be competitive in a lower league is silly. The school would still have taken a nose dive in MBB.
@valpopal it's not giving up on the rebuild model. Powell simply gave his definition for a rebuild. The rebuild was never about the scorebook. But about the reputation of Valpo as a program where basketball is tradition. Hence the, "If this guy can build a nobody. Maybe I will consider his offer as a bench P5 guy." Once again Mr Scrooge, please reread the comment made by Powell to the MVC reporter, where he clearly outlined the "do it again" is in reflection to the fact that you can't dwell on the past and the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" of college athletics, but instead must keep pushing forward and find new guys. Or will you continue to misconstrue Powell's words?
@rezynezy Nobody is disputing Powell's desire to rebuild the reputation of the program. You tend to want to create an either-or confrontational and name-calling debate. However, it is also possible to see Powell's altering of strategy in recruiting individual classes each year.
In Powell's first interview with The Torch when he was hired, he prioritized a traditional four-year rebuild for players: "I’m huge in development. Some family is going to entrust their child to me at 18 years old, and when he leaves our program he’s going to be 22 years old." That varies from his comment today: "It's a different way to build because the way college basketball is now you have to build a new team from scratch every year."
The difference in his words reflects reality and the change many in this forum have experienced in their attitudes toward the current state of mid-major basketball.
None of the suggested fixes (car dealerships, Horizon League etc.) are likely to happen or be effective if they did. In the current environment, Valpo and similar schools will be like minor-league baseball - an occasional good player for a year or two who is more concerned with moving up than embracing their current situation. Interest from the community and student body was almost non-existent this year when there was still hope Coop and All could lead a team in future years that could be competitive and fun to watch. If we can't keep promising freshmen, do we think new power 5 benchwarmers (or worse Holy Cross, Maryland Eastern Shore nobodies) every year will create success or interest?
Was the seemingly premature departure of Charles Small and Jose Padilla an indication of doom?
FYI Purdue- FW just lost their returning leading scorer and top player in the Horizon League to the portal. He is a FW kid(Northrop) who started at UIC then transferred to P FW. He averaged 20 ppg
@valpopal it's not giving up on the rebuild model. Powell simply gave his definition for a rebuild. The rebuild was never about the scorebook. But about the reputation of Valpo as a program where basketball is tradition. Hence the, "If this guy can build a nobody. Maybe I will consider his offer as a bench P5 guy." Once again Mr Scrooge, please reread the comment made by Powell to the MVC reporter, where he clearly outlined the "do it again" is in reflection to the fact that you can't dwell on the past and the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" of college athletics, but instead must keep pushing forward and find new guys. Or will you continue to misconstrue Powell's words?
any particular reason you feel the need to refer to those who disagree with you as Mr. Scrooge? It's not helping you land your point(s).
In Powell's first interview with The Torch when he was hired, he prioritized a traditional four-year rebuild for players: "I’m huge in development. Some family is going to entrust their child to me at 18 years old, and when he leaves our program he’s going to be 22 years old." That varies from his comment today: "It's a different way to build because the way college basketball is now you have to build a new team from scratch every year."
The difference in his words reflects reality and the change many in this forum have experienced in their attitudes toward the current state of mid-major basketball.
The concern that Valpo's better players would leave for greener pastures has existed for a while...at least amongst some on the board. So losing Cooper and Wright is no surprise. Powell in the past has talked about building a program and maybe thought he could pull it off. Apparently it isn't something which can be done to any great degree.
Those concerned now are mostly commenting on what is the plan moving forward. Powell's comments to this point have mostly focused on wording that can certainly be read as nothing is going to change. Maybe, and I hope this is the case, he's just leaving this out there to attract really good potential freshman while also recruiting the best upper classmen he can find from other sources. As has been stated by more than one poster, Valpo had consecutive freshman of the year and an all conference player on the roster and finished next to last in the conference. It is difficult to win with underclassmen at any level of basketball and my opinion is that until Valpo can get some talented upperclassman on the roster, the program will continue to flounder.
I don't think there are many on the board who wish to see a program which is developmental only and not competitive within the conference they are in.
As an aside, I don't see how a return to the Horizon, move to OVC, etc. helps.
Because of these reasons that are not really disputable. Unlike you, I don't get excited to get more money for finishing last. I'd rather get less money and be competitive.
1.) We are light years behind in NIL compared to the MVC.
2.) Our results in the MVC have been consistently terrible.
3.) MVC is a one bid league just like the Horizon.
4.) There are no donor saviors coming to save the day.
5.) Competing in a lower level conference puts us in better alignment to compete for championships and tournament bids.
6.) Lower level conference allows our non-MBB teams to be more competitive.
7.) Horizon offers geographic benefit at least equal to the MVC.
You seem not to fully understand that the MVC is a one-bid league just like the Horizon. It didn't used to be, but it sure is now. Come to grips with that. You apparently would rather get all that exposure as the last place team in THIS one-bid league instead of the exposure for finishing in the top half of THAT one-bid league. I don't get that.
In the sense that a 15-19 year helps position us for recruits much better than a 7-25 year, he is definitely correct. If we have a winning record next year, I do think we can become like a Drake and/or Bradley, that is able to reload with quality recruits each season. I can't imagine that their NIL is much higher than ours, but could be way off. Therefore, putting it into this context, thanks to All and Cooper for elevating us to a level that we should be more competitive for disgruntled P4 transfers, on top of the selling pitch we already have with incoming FR.
For what its worth.....
Seth Davis in an interview yesterday with Dan Patrick stated he thinks the system is working well and he said players have always transferred up when questioned how this helps the mid majors. He said DII Juco's transfer up to mid major. Of course he is a Duke graduate and not bothered with the mid majors loosing transfers. Patrick thought that players should have to sit out a year if they transfer a second time.
I will add, this is the last year of the extra covid year for players.
