RETURN TO THE HL? AKA: WILL VALPO EVER BE SUCCESSFUL IN THE MVC???
There, Rez, I fixed the original title for us. 😃 I did this for two reasons: The first is that, as we have learned just recently, the 12th slot in the HL has been taken by NIU, so that makes the original title obsolete. The second reason is that I reread all the posts in this thread, and it became abundantly clear that the two full pages of posts can be easily slotted into two camps: those who think Valpo can make it in the MVC and those who think it can’t — hence the AKA.
And at the end of the day, without a crystal ball, nobody knows, but sometimes it’s fun to go through the speculative exercise.
@cmack You quite literally a few replies ago equated the program downturn to the MVC move.
Nope. I've repeated in many posts that we are in over our heads in NIL/financial security/transfer rules. We can't compete. I can't scream it into your face louder if you can't hear it.
There is infinitely more that goes into building a sports program than wins and losses, and that goes for any level of play. Most of the other small private schools in the valley are doing just as poorly both NIL and School health. Heck, before the Wardle hire, Bradley build a small on campus arena and was considering dropping to the D2/D3 level and play out of it. They made a good coaching hire and saw success. Valpo made a bad coaching hire and saw decline.
Yep there is also collecting money from other MVC team successes, which is oddly really more important than our own wins and losses to some here. We made an arguably very good hire. We are still a bottom team. Why can other teams turn around almost immediately, but Valpo needs 3-5 years. Never makes a lot of sense to me.
We did used to dominate MVC opponents,
Yes I know. Three games were cited for proof that we would have been dominant in the MVC. As long as we ignore the 8 years of evidence since. The move was good at the time. My case is not that we should time machine backwards. It was definitely the right move at the time. My question is what is good for us now. Based on the last 8 years, what is good for us now?
I see no reason why VU cannot have success in the Valley. VU has had 2, yes 2, coaches in the entire Valley life cycle. Judging the success of a program in a league based off of two coaches is a wild take
This is what I challenge. Saying "just two coaches" is semantics to avoid saying 8 years. We've had 8 years. If you don't see an issue with the transfer portal, NIL, and the university's financial issues as a problem. Then it is your rose-colored glasses that struggle to see what's really happening.
Bradley was never "considering dropping to the D2/D3 level" and other MVC private schools like Drake/Bradley/Belmont aren't "doing just as poorly in both NIL and school health". A genuine conversation can't be had if people are just going to make up things that aren't true.
So I’m getting pummeled by suggesting we are in the right conference. Think about this:
Your buddies in Indiana and Illinois (where the majority of our students come from) and they are discussing where to go to school. So our kid says Valpo and his buddies say, oh, they are in the same conference as schools I’m thinking about, Illinois State, Southern Illinois and Bradley. Would they have the same reaction if they were looking at Cleveland State, Robert Morris and IUPUI?
And remember, our academic reputation is certainly part of it. Do you want to be associated with schools Drake, Evansville, Bradley, UIC or Belmont or Youngstown State, Cleveland State or Purdue Fort Wayne?
Bradley did consider a move to D2/D3. Here is the proof of such right here actually! So don't come to me about "making stuff up" here is the evidence right here. The reason the faculty considered a move is because of, get this, budget concerns related to academics. Which I just outlined above. Bradley is not in good health financially.
https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1720072144506277954
That's not "Bradley considering a move to D2/D3". That's anti-athletics faculty who have no power coming to the school with absurd proposals. Faculty don't have any power or real input regarding the divisional classification of athletics. That's like if a student union came up with a proposal to move to D2/D3.
The only thing that actually represents what "Bradley is considering" is the administration/BOT. And the Bradley administration/BOT have NEVER considered moving to D2/D3.
You're fundamentally miscomprehending these things.
Bradley is not doing well financially. The faculty suggested a move to D2 and a study to see what would happen. That is considering a move to D2. However. You can go as far back as when I suggested, IE the Wardle hire and find studies and reports that Bradley was considering the move.
Bradley is not doing well financially. The faculty suggested a move to D2 and a study to see what would happen. That is considering a move to D2. However. You can go as far back as when I suggested, IE the Wardle hire and find studies and reports that Bradley was considering the move.
No, what anti-athletics faculty say and make noise about regarding the divisional classification of athletics is meaningless. They have no power in that decision. The people who have power, and actually represent what Bradley is considering, are the administration and BOT. The Bradley administration/BOT never considered a move to D2/D3.
And, no, you cannot find reports that the Bradley administration or BOT was considering a move to D2/D3 because that never happened. You're fundamentally not understanding how these things work.
Bradley is not doing well financially.
I would say they're not doing well at all. Their "embattled" president essentially gave a two weeks' notice last year, and their board chair is still serving as interim president eight months later.
No one is misunderstanding anything 🤣 . Anyone can understand that Staff don't make decisions at an institution. Bradley was horrible before the Wardle hire. Renaissance was built in 2010 largely because
1. MBB wasn't drawing numbers to justify use of Carver long term and Peoria was selling dates to concerts that Bradley had asked to hold for basketball
2. After a few seasons with RenCol. Word came out that usage of RenCol was being used as a trial run to either move games back on campus where you could make more money off ticket sales than an arena you don't own, or move down to the D2/D3 level if the program didn't improve.
So I’m getting pummeled by suggesting we are in the right conference. Think about this:
Your buddies in Indiana and Illinois (where the majority of our students come from) and they are discussing where to go to school. So our kid says Valpo and his buddies say, oh, they are in the same conference as schools I’m thinking about, Illinois State, Southern Illinois and Bradley. Would they have the same reaction if they were looking at Cleveland State, Robert Morris and IUPUI?
And remember, our academic reputation is certainly part of it. Do you want to be associated with schools Drake, Evansville, Bradley, UIC or Belmont or Youngstown State, Cleveland State or Purdue Fort Wayne?
"Academic reputation" haha...yeah..people think ...Stanford...Northwestern...Notre Dame...Valpo???? you really are out of touch...and there is no distinct difference in the schools in either conference as far as reputaion...no one cares...
Heckler and previous AD moved to this conference...when they had Loyola...then Loyola leaves and its a one bid conference again...so no revenue coming from 2 teams in tournament plus the addition of our other sports teams getting knocked around and becoming cellar dwellers.
Academic reputation" haha...yeah..people think ...Stanford...Northwestern...Notre Dame...Valpo???? you really are out of touch
Just another Valpo grad with an academic inferiority complex.
Most of the other small private schools in the valley are doing just as poorly both NIL and School health. Heck, before the Wardle hire, Bradley build a small on campus arena and was considering dropping to the D2/D3 level and play out of it. They made a good coaching hire and saw success.
I don't feel like touching anything else in this thread, but this level of wrong should be called out.
1. Bradley has played at Carver (Peoria Civic Center) since 1982. Here is a photo of them in 1983 
?width=660&height=453&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp
2. The "small on-campus arena" opened in 2009 and hosts one game per year, or when Carver isn't available. They play exceptionally few men's basketball games there. They played one season in that arena, 13/14, and then were back in Carver for a season or two before Wardle was hired.
3. Wardle was hired in 2015. They were struggling at because they had Geno Ford in over his head after the Jim Les era blew up in the way only Jim Les could. Time feels like it's moving faster but 1981 to 2015 is not just before Wardle was hired.
4. They were never seriously in danger of moving D2 removed link Sensational headlines are always great for fodder, but not great in reality. There was an opinion piece written by an anti-athletics person in 2014. No actual talk of it happened. The faculty "looked" at the move in 2023. Again, great headline, was never going to happen. Faculty at every single D1 institution are going to take yearly pot shots at athletics. Most of the time it's drowned out because no one gives them the time of day, or it is happening at schools with larger football programs where the pot shots are meaningless and a "pay attention to us" move. They, like every school, had some financial issues in the post covid world. Rather than cut academic programs that hemorrhage money, they wanted to gut athletics like all academic faculties. Instead Bradley did the right thing and cut a handful of majors including: Apparel Production, Ceramics, Entrepreneurship, Hospitality Leadership, Print Making, Professional Sales, Internationl Studies, Acurarial Science and programs that would be moved from majors to areas of concentration like French, Philosphy, Physics and Econ. Within one month of the faculty writing that Op-Ed calling for it Bradley voted and rejected the athletics related issues while addressing wasteful spending within the academic side as well as athletics. This happens at schools all the time. Remember when Valpo had a law school?
5. Yes, they made a good hire. They also invested in their program. They had Carver for games. They had the new on-campus facility to practice in and use as needed for random one-off situations. They upgraded their practice facilities. Paid coaches to keep them win they were winning. Even at their lowest attendance average they were more than double what Valpo has right now and would have been over capacity in the ARC.
6. Even if "faculty calling for cuts" so the department looks at it for 5 minutes and goes "No" then, again, every school considers a D3/D2 move at least once a decade if not more. Schools, off the top of my head, in the last 10 years that have conducted studies of "Should we move FBS, stay FCS, go non-scholarship D1, drop football, or drop D2 or below" based on academic faculty misrepresenting numbers and being loud about it are Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Murray State, Western Illinois, Eastern Washington, Montana, Southern Utah, Stephen F Austin, McNeese, Indiana State, Portland State, essentially every smaller school in the northeast. Almost every non-SEC school in the gulf/Appalachia region, Eastern Kentucky, Holy Cross, Idaho, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, South Dakota, Sac State, SC State, SEMO, I can keep going but I think you get the picture. That is just the "FCS" schools. Not to go into the schools like Bradley, Valpo, Drake, Stetson, San Diego, Presbyterian, Georgetown, Boston, the entirety of the Cal and Cal State system, Evansville, etc. There was never an actual threat to the Division 1 status of Bradley, or UNI, or any of the schools listed above, sans Presby.
Academic reputation" haha...yeah..people think ...Stanford...Northwestern...Notre Dame...Valpo???? you really are out of touch
Just another Valpo grad with an academic inferiority complex.
Hmm ..well..just so you are aware..when you "brag to your pals or people you meet that you went to VU...they know that you are pompous and out of touch.No one thinks VU is a premiere institution except dudes like you that think it impresses people.
My degree from Valpo has served me well. Sorry to see that it hasn't done the same for you
