ok, what now?

[milanmiracle]

He's staying...that's just the way it is. His contract will be honored, and when it's over, the administration will make an evaluation at that time. This is rock bottom. Can the program honestly get worse? Keep him for 10 more years, it's got nowhere to go but up. They've got 2 wins in 3 years. Granted, without Campbell they've be creeping up on Prairie View A&M status, but are they really that far off anyway?

Expect more of the same rhetoric and catch phrases in the next few years, but the end results will be the same. 

[usc4valpo]

this sounds like the South Central Louisiana State University Mud Dogs until Bobby Boucher saved the day

[LaPorteAveApostle]

[valporun]

Apostle, take same picture, and put "WE SUCK AGAIN" on it.

[LukePurcy]

I keep seeing "VU isn't truly committed to football". Well its about time they start committing to football and start getting serious. Every team in the athletics at VU is pretty competitive and it looks like our women's basketball team will be pretty solid this year with a new coach. Then there's the football team.....getting blown out the majority of their games  Our basketball team is riding high right now, just playing on ESPN in the 24 Hour Tip-off Marathon while our football team is enjoying winning one game a year. Changes need to be made. I'm sorry but going 2-30 in three years (most likely 2-31 after Morehead State) is atrocious! I know we don't have the best talent, we are never going to have tons of talent but there is a enough talent to win 3 or 4 games a year and not get blown out pretty much every game. There is no progress what so ever, 2 wins in 3 years!? That's progress!? Please.

[usc4valpo]

From all the information on this topic, I have to conclude that if VU is not truly commited to football, then they need to get out of that sport. It can be attributed to Carlson, and that is convenient to say, but the heavy hitter is that VU should get rid of football and take a different direction in athletics.  Perhaps more in soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, etc.  Or keep more focus on basketball - many schools are that way - Creighton, St. John's, Marquette, Gonzaga, St. Louis, St. Mary's, etc. and they are just fine.

I know this is upsetting, but I am objectively taking all this in and coming to this conclusion. I am trying to understand why VU should have football in the situation they are in. It doesn't make sense.

[covufan]

I'm not close to the football program at all.  Obviously, the W's and points for and against have not improved over last year.  The AD and his staff are in a much better position to determine if the football program has made improvements over the last three years, especially in areas away from the field. Based on Carlson's previous record, the number of Fr/So on the two deep, and the VU's history of sticking with Horne after his first three years, I'm for giving Carlson another year or two.  The PFL will have two new coaches and two new teams (football programs built from scratch), so the road should be primed for VU success the next few years.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

From all the information on this topic, I have to conclude that if VU is not truly commited to football, then they need to get out of that sport.

setshot? is that you?

[FWalum]

From all the information on this topic, I have to conclude that if VU is not truly commited to football, then they need to get out of that sport. It can be attributed to Carlson, and that is convenient to say, but the heavy hitter is that VU should get rid of football and take a different direction in athletics.  Perhaps more in soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, etc.  Or keep more focus on basketball - many schools are that way - Creighton, St. John's, Marquette, Gonzaga, St. Louis, St. Mary's, etc. and they are just fine.

I know this is upsetting, but I am objectively taking all this in and coming to this conclusion. I am trying to understand why VU should have football in the situation they are in. It doesn't make sense.

It appears that the "get rid of football" movement has gained a little more popularity on the board, but those in support of that action really have not thought this through.  Having been on an auxiliary board at the University of Evansville I can tell you that many people there wish the decision to drop football would have never taken place in 1997.  This decision had a much larger ripple effect then anticipated, fundraising was severely hampered and many disgruntled football alumni and current players spoke ill of the way things were handled by the administration.  Even student admissions was affected by a perception that the school was having money problems and was in decline. Just last month an "Athletic Leadership Team" consisting of Aces football alums, athletic department staff and faculty worked to make a report alongside experts from Carr Sports Associates, a consulting firm run by former University of Houston Athletic Director Bill Carr to the university trustees asking for a decision concerning bringing football back to UE.  They were turned down because of the estimated 10 million dollar price tag associated with restarting the program.  The wound still festers.  If anyone on this board thinks that shutting down the program would be a simple solution contained solely in the athletic department they are being extremely naive.

We hired a coach with a good track record of building programs. I doubt that he has forgotten how to coach. Perhaps there are external forces that have delayed the rebuilding process, I DON"T KNOW. If his contract is for 5 years then I say give him the full 5 years.

[chef]

well said Fort Wayne!

[IndyValpo]

It appears that the "get rid of football" movement has gained a little more popularity on the board, but those in support of that action really have not thought this through.  Having been on an auxiliary board at the University of Evansville I can tell you that many people there wish the decision to drop football would have never taken place in 1997.  This decision had a much larger ripple effect then anticipated, fundraising was severely hampered and many disgruntled football alumni and current players spoke ill of the way things were handled by the administration.  Even student admissions was affected by a perception that the school was having money problems and was in decline. Just last month an "Athletic Leadership Team" consisting of Aces football alums, athletic department staff and faculty worked to make a report alongside experts from Carr Sports Associates, a consulting firm run by former University of Houston Athletic Director Bill Carr to the university trustees asking for a decision concerning bringing football back to UE.  They were turned down because of the estimated 10 million dollar price tag associated with restarting the program.  The wound still festers.  If anyone on this board thinks that shutting down the program would be a simple solution contained solely in the athletic department they are being extremely naive.

We hired a coach with a good track record of building programs. I doubt that he has forgotten how to coach. Perhaps there are external forces that have delayed the rebuilding process, I DON"T KNOW. If his contract is for 5 years then I say give him the full 5 years.

FW, I completely agree about dropping football. Bad football is better than no football everyday of the week.  I keep waiting for RLH to chime in on this topic as he always did.

Now on to the coach forgetting how to coach.....you wouldn't think so but after watching the product you have to start to wonder.  The progress we have made, whatever the factors or reason, in 3 years is embarrassing small.

[usc4valpo]

Why did Evansville get rid of football?  Was it finances?  Lack of interest? 

[historyman]

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/08/08c01beard-col/?printer=1/

[LaPorteAveApostle]

HISTORY MAN ... HE DROPPETH THE HISTORY

[FWalum]

Now on to the coach forgetting how to coach.....you wouldn't think so but after watching the product you have to start to wonder.  The progress we have made, whatever the factors or reason, in 3 years is embarrassing small.

I would agree that based upon Coach Carlson's history this is not what I would have expected, but I am willing to look at the history and give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

[milanmiracle]

Now on to the coach forgetting how to coach.....you wouldn't think so but after watching the product you have to start to wonder.  The progress we have made, whatever the factors or reason, in 3 years is embarrassing small.

I would agree that based upon Coach Carlson's history this is not what I would have expected, but I am willing to look at the history and give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

His track record is with starting programs, not turning them around. Big difference. I'm not saying he can't coach (I don't agree with his methods, but that's a topic for a different day.) but this project is much different than forming a new team.

[usc4valpo]

Guys, I am just basing my conclusion in an objective manner. I took a systematic approach, looked at the program and their stakeholders to see where football fits in at Valpo to determine the right path.   I read through the Evansville situation and I have to wonder the biasness of the article.  Note that there were people asking to bring football back, with a past where they were losing significant funds and no one was going to the games. UE looks like they are doing just fine.  Also, a few hundred grand of donations at this day and age is a drop in the bucket, considering endowment in the 100's of millions.

If football stays, there must be significant changes, as the path is going into a black hole. Again, has there been improvement after 3 years to keep the same system?

[laura]

Stop with the drop football stuff...And stop questioning the ability of the players. The are as good as most teams in the PFL( look at their Bios). If you haven't figured out that a mistake was made in the hiring of Carlson three years ago , well then you have not been watching this team. 2-31 !!!!! Are you kidding me. Some of you want to give this coach 2 more years? Please!

[usc4valpo]

Laura,

I was never dissing the players abilities.

Also, why should a discussion of having football at Valpo be off limits?  You need to look at this holistically to see the effect football has on VU's vision. If there is no committment from the university for football and very low interest from students and alums, then how do you justify having a program?

Do it right or try to do it right, or don't do it at all.

[milanmiracle]

Stop with the drop football stuff...And stop questioning the ability of the players. The are as good as most teams in the PFL( look at their Bios). If you haven't figured out that a mistake was made in the hiring of Carlson three years ago , well then you have not been watching this team. 2-31 !!!!! Are you kidding me. Some of you want to give this coach 2 more years? Please!

Keep him for the length of the contract. It's just not worth it for a non scholarship football program. Really if the same thing continues for another few years, would the program be any worse? Why spend the money?

Dropping football would mean 100 less male students paying their way...VU won't drop football for that reason alone.

[valporun]

In terms of firing Coach Carlson before his contract is out, does Mark LaBarbara have the funds to pay for a new head coach for five years, plus two years of the Dale Carlson buyout? People throughout the state of Illinois are calling for Tim Beckman's head after one season, but Illinois isn't going to fire him because they are already in deep in buyouts for Ron Zook, Bruce Weber, and Jonette Law (Women's Basketball). Also, is Valpo still paying Keith Freeman the final years of his contract, while he assists Wright State basketball, or was his contract done when he was relieved? Does it make sense for Valpo to be paying for two coaches who aren't working here now because they were let go, when our athletic funds aren't the same as Illinois and other BCS schools that are deep in athletic debt because of the number of buyouts they've taken on??

[usc4valpo]

So the main reason Valpo has football is to bring in 100 male students a year. Thus, $4M a year into the kitty. This makes some sense!  It is used basically to bring in cash.

For those students forking out cash for football, perhaps it would be reasonable to provide a football staff that has stability and knows what they are doing.

[valporun]

usc, if we're only providing football to bring in 100 more male students to campus, who cares who is coaching at the games? Bill Veeck allowed fans to determine who started games one season in baseball, why not let the fans decide who are our 22 starters and gets to play on special teams for each game, or let the fans call the plays? Football is mostly there to help with income and Title IX anyway.

[crusadermoe]

Not a bad idea to let the fans pick the players and call the plays next year until the 5 years runs out.   

I agree we should NOT drop football.     
And i agree that restoring a good program is an uphill climb.   We need a FCS version of Bill Snyder.

But it CAN be done.   We are so close to CHICAGO.   Just get coach with some charisma and Chicago creds and network yourself to some good pipeline high schools.    When you are non-scholarship, I think you recruit kids in groups or two or three.  Then they can bring the friendships.   They aren't looking to be pros or get university town endorsement deals.

I don't know if the resume with Ohio Dominican Republic W-L record is optimal. 

[covufan]

A recent article in the Denver Post suggests firing of coach's doesn't always change things - Title  CU-led study: Firing head football coach doesn't change much

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_21998736/cu-led-study-firing-head-football-coach-doesnt

I don't think VU has the alumni support to "buy out" current coaching contracts to hire a new coach, as at some larger Universities.  This year's team has made slight improvements in points for and against, compared to last year.  Next year they will need to win 4-5 games, and be in 2-3 other games in the fourth quarter, or they will not be showing fourth year improvement.