Chapel renovations and addition

[agibson]

The posters are down, but the brown and gold bunting has stayed.  It's OK, I guess.  A bit... autumnal.  It was a nice service, and nice to have the local ELCA bishop on hand to preach and preside at the installation.  Two things came to mind.  1)This never would have happened when I first came to VU as a student.  2)I've never heard the the LCMS District President visiting campus.

On Pastor C, what's he up to these days?   I thought I even saw him on campus recently, from a distance.

[vu72]

The President of the LCMS spoke at the 150th anniversary service.

http://www.valpo.edu/news/news.php?releaseId=3904

[vuweathernerd]

On Pastor C, what's he up to these days?   I thought I even saw him on campus recently, from a distance.

i think he still pops up on campus from time to time, especially since (at last i knew) he was still living in valpo. he actually just took a new position at a church in north judson.

[agibson]

The President of the LCMS spoke at the 150th anniversary service.

http://www.valpo.edu/news/news.php?releaseId=3904

I stand happily corrected!  Maybe it took a "reformer" like Kieschnick?  Or, in some ways, maybe easier for the president of the synod than for a district president?

[historyman]

The President of the LCMS spoke at the 150th anniversary service.

http://www.valpo.edu/news/news.php?releaseId=3904

I stand happily corrected!  Maybe it took a "reformer" like Kieschnick?  Or, in some ways, maybe easier for the president of the synod than for a district president?

And in case you hadn't heard Pastor Kieschnick's "reformer" views were too much for the more conservative part of the LCMS and he was voted out. The new LCMS president is Matthew Harrison, who is actually from Ft Wayne. Although his leanings are mostly to the conservative side he is trying hard to be appreciative of the part of the LCMS that favored Kieschnick's "reformer" leanings.

[agibson]

Have we talked about the chapel pews?  As well as replacing the clear (not, AFAIK, the stained glass) windows, and making a significant addition to the building (office and meeting space, etc.), they're planning to remove the pews.  Already this summer?  And replace them with chairs.  At least informally, the condition of the pews was cited.  And, the flexibility of chairs (for reconfiguring the room, etc.).

It's certainly possible to move the pews.  It's done every year for Advent Christmas Vespers, right?  But, I guess chairs might be simpler.

[okinawatyphoon]

I am not sure about the plans for the pews, but they were supposed to switch to individual seats that can be connected to resemble pews, I think. If that is what I'm thinking of, I hope I'm not disappointed. I think the old pews give the Chapel some ambiance that could be lost. Either way, at least the Chapel renovations are already paid for.

[agibson]

I like pews well, myself.  I'll miss them.  I wonder especially about organ recitals, where it was long the tradition to swing around backwards, to look at the organ as you listened.  I suppose, in principle, they could turn some chairs around.  Not sure if it'll happen.

[FWalum]

Aesthetically I think that pews give a look of substance and permanence.  Chairs not so much.  I personally like the pews, they are somewhat configurable and have worked for a long time.  I wonder why the need to change to chairs?

[vuweathernerd]

during the spring 10 semester, we tried out some sample chair designs during weekly services and sunday night candlelight, and the chapel staff asked for feedback. what ultimately came out of that was that none of the samples were particularly popular and so it was going to become a longer term issue. govalpogo can chime in on this too, but i believe that some of the pews were starting to break, resulting in less available seating and requiring more folding chairs for large events (at least that's what it looked like to me). while i'm glad they finally have that taken care of, i'll be sad to see those pews go. they weren't that uncomfortable. but they were a to move.

[78crusader]

A chapel like ours requires pews.  Not chairs.  This should not be subject to debate.  If our present pews are broken, then get 'em fixed.  Chairs are not acceptable, and would look out of place. 

Paul

[agibson]

they weren't that uncomfortable. but they were a to move.

I didn't do it very often.  And, maybe, when I did it, I didn't move very many.  But, was it so bad?  There was a cart/trolley.  You needed a couple of people to lift a pew onto the trolley, but then you could wheel it around without too much difficulty, no?  Maybe not more difficult than moving the equivalent number (6? 8? 10? I've forgotten where the pews break) of chairs?

[vu72]

Let's not get too worked up over the idea of chairs v. pews until we see the options.  This website (totally arbitrary in selection) shows chairs with wooden backs that when puttogether would resemble pews and be much more comfortable.  Just an idea. The donor's of the money are both clergy so I'd doubt they would allow a cheap look to the seating.

http://www.pews.com/pews/Pew_Bodies.aspx?gclid=CPXS-_vx0asCFSOAgwodfjn0UQ

[vu72]

Don't really have an opinion on pews v. chairs, but came across a slide show concerning the change made at St. Paul's in New York City.

Very interesting and thoughtful presentation:

http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/news/slideshows/pews

[vuweathernerd]

they weren't that uncomfortable. but they were a to move.

I didn't do it very often.  And, maybe, when I did it, I didn't move very many.  But, was it so bad?  There was a cart/trolley.  You needed a couple of people to lift a pew onto the trolley, but then you could wheel it around without too much difficulty, no?  Maybe not more difficult than moving the equivalent number (6? 8? 10? I've forgotten where the pews break) of chairs?

once you got them up on the little cart they weren't so bad. but it definitely took planning to maneuver them around adequately. and it was a fairly timely endeavor.

[FWalum]

i know firsthand that the bit about the chapel is true. when pastor jim was up here over spring break with students working on flood relief, we talked about it some, and he mentioned it. they're also not holding any weddings there this summer.

When I talked to President Heckler in March he told me that he had a number of future brides very mad at him because of the closure of the chapel this summer.   

[vuweathernerd]

i know firsthand that the bit about the chapel is true. when pastor jim was up here over spring break with students working on flood relief, we talked about it some, and he mentioned it. they're also not holding any weddings there this summer.

When I talked to President Heckler in March he told me that he had a number of future brides very mad at him because of the closure of the chapel this summer.   

i was actively trying to persuade two of my best friends, who met during our time at vu, to get married in the chapel this summer. but that was before the decision had been publicized. so i guess it worked out for them. though i'm still kinda bummed, i won't lie.

[78crusader]

I realize this is a bit removed from this thread, but ... the Chapel work will include removing the pews and replacing them with chairs.  This is a mistake.  There is a sense of "community" when you sit in a pew with other worshippers.  You don't get that with chairs.  Plus it would be hard to keep them all in a straight line, unlike pews. 

Paul

[vu72]

I realize this is a bit removed from this thread, but ... the Chapel work will include removing the pews and replacing them with chairs.  This is a mistake.  There is a sense of "community" when you sit in a pew with other worshippers.  You don't get that with chairs.  Plus it would be hard to keep them all in a straight line, unlike pews. 

Paul

Don't have any idea what they are planning for seating, but the pews needed to be replace.  One totally collapsed recently and fortunately no one was hurt.  Because of the multi-faceted use of the Chapel the pews needed to be moved and rearranged often and they are VERY heavy.  Finally, most new seating has some sort of way to lock it together so the "straight line" issue shouldn't be a problem.

[vuweathernerd]

Don't have any idea what they are planning for seating, but the pews needed to be replace.  One totally collapsed recently and fortunately no one was hurt.  Because of the multi-faceted use of the Chapel the pews needed to be moved and rearranged often and they are VERY heavy.  Finally, most new seating has some sort of way to lock it together so the "straight line" issue shouldn't be a problem.

as somebody who has recently worked in the chapel, i could not disagree more. sure, the pews were heavy, but comparing that to thousands of chairs, i'd take the pews in a heart beat. and i believe that most of my contemporaries in the chapel feel the same way (govalpogo, feel free to chime in here). connecting the seats is not the answer - many times those things get separated with minimal effort, and then what was maybe a 30 minute job (for 2 or 3 people) to rearrange the majority of the chapel becomes easily double or triple that, figuring the same number of workers. and that's generally all that's available. one person can fairly easily make the slight adjustments that are typically needed from day to day.

and the pews actually do not need to be rearranged frequently. many times, the arrangement frequently photographed and published online during morning prayer is the same setup that's used on sunday mornings and at candlelight.

on top of that, there's a sense of community in the pews, a closeness that cannot be matched, even remotely, by chairs. a couple years back, there were some sample chair designs available for use, and the reports i heard about them were overwhelmingly negative, for a whole host of reasons, to include what i've already mentioned. i'm not necessarily against replacing the pews currently there, but if it happens, it should be with new pews.

[78crusader]

Not sure how to say this, but this effort to bring chairs to the chapel is, I think, another small effort by VU to secularize the Chapel. 

Paul

[okinawatyphoon]

my church switched to chairs a few years ago, and I didn't feel any less of a sense of community or distance from others. they interlock and look like pews, allowing you to sit just as close as if you were on pews. I do have some doubts that the chairs will be aesthetically appealing in the historic chapel though...

[vu72]

if nerd feels that strongly about pews then count me in the pew category!   

As a member of an ELCA congregation that has a sanctuary seating capacity of about 600, and who rearranges the seating three times a year for liturgical reasons, I can tell you the rearrangement can be a huge process but done fairly easily with the help of about 25 guys.  Now, the Chapel seats just a few more thaty 600 so perhaps 75 to 100 students could get it done fairly quickly.  This could mean new employees at the Chapel!!

[vuweathernerd]

if nerd feels that strongly about pews then count me in the pew category!   

As a member of an ELCA congregation that has a sanctuary seating capacity of about 600, and who rearranges the seating three times a year for liturgical reasons, I can tell you the rearrangement can be a huge process but done fairly easily with the help of about 25 guys.  Now, the Chapel seats just a few more than 600 so perhaps 75 to 100 students could get it done fairly quickly.  This could mean new employees at the Chapel!!

if we could get even 25 students, that'd be fantastic. but frequently, it's only a couple, to 5 at most, to rearrange the seating. maybe i'm just a purist, but i'd take the pews over chairs even with all other things being equal.

[okinawatyphoon]

Could someone please move the posts in the Huegli/Miller thread to this one?

Does anyone have pictures of what the chairs are supposed to look like? To me, that is the biggest factor since I think the thoughts about moving the pews and the thoughts about intimacy over chairs/pews don't play that big of a factor.