Teams on the Horizon League's horizon

[VULB#62]

Wondering the same things myself.  18 Sports (9 Men's teams, 9 Women's teams) which is the same as Valpo except VU has Bowling for the 19th. BB Arena 5,000+, nice baseball stadium, and a real track.  267 miles from Valpo;  Valpo's two longest trips are YSU 365 and UWGB 259.  For YSU, it's only 10 miles more to Macomb than to UWGB. Oakland and WIU have flipped RPI Rankings these past two years. But I was not following Crusader sports when VU was part of the Mid-Con, so there might be some history there that I am unaware of.

MBB 2012-13             Conf    All  Valpo RPI Rank 60
South Dakota State      13-3   25-10
Western Illinois      13-3   22-9  RPI Rank 137
North Dakota State      12-4   24-10
Oakland         10-6   16-17  RPI Rank 166
Fort Wayne         7-9   16-17
Omaha         6-10   11-20
South Dakota         5-11   10-20
Kansas City         5-11   8-24
IUPUI             1-15   6-26

MBB 2011-12       Conf   All  Valpo RPI Rank 115
Oral Roberts   17-1   27-7
South Dakota State   15-3   27-8
Oakland   11-7   20-16  RPI Rank 133
North Dakota State   9-9   17-14
Western Illinois   9-9   18-15  RPI Rank 169
Southern Utah   8-10   14-17
IUPUI   7-11   14-18
Fort Wayne   5-13   11-19
South Dakota   5-13   10-18
Kansas City   4-14   10-21

[classof2014]

Honestly I don't want Western Illinois. They are in the middle of nowhere, I mean that part of the state wanted to secede and become "Forgotonia" and besides the past 2-3 seasons they have never done anything basketball wise. I think the HL can do much better than replacing Loyola with replacing the Loyola of Forgotonia. Very few road fans will be able to visit, and I would imagine not many alumni from WIU live in Macomb.

Obviously like everybody knows, Oakland is ideal. I think to fill the 10th spot we can get somebody better. I think we could go after NKU or RMU, which are both pretty close to HL schools, while WIU is pretty far from Chicago. Even the alphabet schools are better fits in the HL than WIU. If WIU can show they can play some basketball over the next couple of seasons, then I would reconsider them as an option. But right now, it doesn't make sense to go after them. I would rather have the Indy or even Fort Wayne market than the Macomb market (if such a thing exists).

[historyman]

a new field house will fix track/cc & tennis issues.

It is already slated that a new arena for basketball will be built in the next capital drive (2020 roughly).

Certainly there is no need for this to be in the Horizon League. Of course you will need to keep promising to put money into athletic facilities but you can act like Valpo and keep making speeches and promises and just keep constructing academic & dorm buildings that will keep the cost of tuition up and your student body as small as possible and far away in the no man's land that is Macomb, IL.

How does one even drive to Macomb, IL?

Oh yeah,

      

[Western4Life]

If I were driving to Macomb I would use the four lane high way? By next year the new bypass exits will be completed if you want options on where to enter the booming city of Macomb    I must point out that Macomb is a classic college town and we have support when the product is worth it. I am not going to apologize for being a teachers college, direction school, or anything else. To be blunt the way I see it is if you are not in the BCS you are the rest...

There hadn't been much reason to attend basketball games before Molinari addressed the programs issues. It took time but we are very solid now and I don't see that changing. Basketball is what we are talking about here right? The improved hoops at Western put a smile on the new school President's face. His focus is on athletics to market the school better so don't be shocked to see some major changes and not just promises. I will be shocked if we don't have a new AD within the next few months as well. Western has spent tens of millions to make the campus more efficient (mostly steam lines) and savings will now propel the next projects. Western does have priorities though, that being football. The basketball arena would be next.

It has been a while since I have heard anyone drop Forgottonia, I suppose something from the 1960's & 1970's like that would be relevant though in 2013. Its not like the state system we are involved in is about to go bankrupt, focusing on the hippie era sounds just about right  I would question the legitimacy of anyone with a college degree in the Chicagoland area that doesn't know how corrupt politics are and how much of a slant Chicago has against the rest of the state of IL. Are we left behind at times? Yes. Has it become much better? Yes.

Between other colleges and professional sports teams in HL markets it doesn't seem like that big of an issue IMO. Recruiting is helped by markets but national acclaim? Is the HL missing just one final school addition that will land the HL a 50 game ESPN contract? Nope. There are a lot of options, it will forever be changing. I just wanted to offer my ideas, it would be good for Western and I think in time the HL would see a lot of benefit from adding us as well.

[classof2014]

I don't think WIU is ready yet for the HL. They have only had 2 seasons where they have shown some improvements in a much weaker Summit League. Am I saying they aren't good, no because they had 2 decent seasons. Nothing spectacular but decent, is that an improvement from what WIU has done, yes. I just don't believe WIU is the right fit for the HL, yes it would greatly benefit WIU in being in a much stronger HL but they don't fit the demographics. They play pretty much in the middle of nowhere.

I would still consider Western Illinois (as a state) as still being well behind the times and in the forgotten land of Illinois. Me being from Illinois and not the Chicago area, the 3 regions in IL are: Chicago, Central, and Southern.... oh yeah there is a western part too.

WIU plays in too small of a town, in an area with no cities that are large enough to make an impact on the HL viewing ratings. If WIU was closer to St. Louis then it might be a fit but where Macomb is in IL there is nothing around it. Not a good fit for any of the HL teams.

[StlVUFan]

I was at the bracketbuster game against Cleveland State and I was impressed with the fan turnout.  While I still think you have to go "'round robin hood's barn" as the saying goes to get there from the Valpo area, the path there is definitely not of the back woods variety.  All of it is fairly smooth highway.  I had no trouble finding the place, and the parking is still plentiful and free.

The fans still seem to think any contact whatsoever is a foul, but Valpo fans were that way in the old Mid-Con too.

As for being out in the middle of nowhere, there's little WIU can do about that except establish a winning tradition, and I suspect they are doing a pretty good job of setting that in motion.

[wh]

I think our WIU guest makes a respectible case.  Adding WIU would give us a broader presence in IL which would help our recruiting efforts there even more and give us a bigger edge over most of the rest of the conf in one of the strongest bb states in the country.  You know where it's hard to get to?  Belmont- get on I-65 and drive 1 million miles and you're there.  You and their 1500 fans.  Can you imagine them hosting the HL tournament?  This is a mid major conf. People need to quit trying to make it something it's never going to be. 

[crusaderjoe]

As charter members of the old Mid Con, VU, UWGB, Cleveland State, UIC and Valpo share history with WIU that is substantial.  I'm sure that Oakland is first on the list of replacement schools from the Summit League, but there's no reason why WIU couldn't be second given the historical angle IMO--unless of course football is a sticking point.  They would need a reasonable travel partner though.

[historyman]

If I were driving to Macomb I would use the four lane high way? By next year the new bypass exits will be completed if you want options on where to enter the booming city of Macomb    I must point out that Macomb is a classic college town and we have support when the product is worth it. I am not going to apologize for being a teachers college, direction school, or anything else. To be blunt the way I see it is if you are not in the BCS you are the rest...

Just to get to cities around Macomb is a hassle. Can you drive straight from Macomb to Peoria, Springfield, Quad Cities or St Louis on any interstate or "interstate-like" highway? No because no interstate goes to Macomb. People don't pass through that part of western Illinois to get anywhere.

I wonder how many posters on this board know exactly where Macomb is and know a highway, 4 lane or not, that goes through Macomb without looking on a map.

If the deal were being made today on where to put Western Illinois University I'm sure it would have been put in Quincy because, at least, Quincy has an interstate highway from Springfield that goes to it.

[classof2014]

I'd rather have IUPUI over WIU, the Indy market is much bigger than maybe some people driving from Peoria, Bloomington, and from the northern fringe of St. Louis area. WIU hasn't done much basketball wise, besides the past two seasons they have done nothing. Maybe if they had a better basketball resume I wouldn't mind seeing them in the HL, but they don't.

I think adding the Indy market would do more for recruiting, then adding Macomb and surrounding areas, in the least populated part of Illinois.

[Western4Life]

I am simply arguing that before UIPUI and IPFW the Leathernecks are a FAR better option. We aren't moving back on campus rec centers like commuter schools etc. Many of the mentioned teams would be great additions but considering all factors like football etc (no OVC member with football is gonna get in the MVFC). The SL isn't as bad as you think and we have a great recruiting class coming in. Will we beat out Robert Morris? No. Can Murray St. get football done? No. Do we have history? Yes sir.

WIU is on the upswing in terms of hoops, we are coming around for our facility upgrades in turn, and we offer all the right sports without horrible travel. We aren't going to change the globe but Quincy, Quad Cities, Galesburg, Peoria, and Springfield offer us areas to recruit from. The four lane from Spring field to connect Macomb is under way. You can already go north through Galesburg or southwest to Quincy. It is the route for KC to Chicago. I'd love to see a four lane to Peoria done but we aren't on another planet.

The HL teams should not host their own tourney IMO. I am not sure what the popular opinion on that is here. A fun destination city seems like the way to go. Even the SL has huge ticket sales etc hosting in Sioux Falls.

[valpotx]

Not only no, but HELL NO!  We would much rather have WIU than IUPUI or IPFW.  It doesn't matter how much larger Indianapolis or Fort Wayne are compared to Macomb.  Those two schools will NEVER be relevant in their markets.  WIU can at least get some fans out to the games that are HL size comparable, as demonstrated when they have had success (2,000-2,500 fans for some past Valpo games).  I didn't mind the drive to Macomb for baseball either.  Even though we were a perfect 10-0 against WIU while I was in school (men's basketball), they still bring more to the table than either of the alphabet schools

[valpotx]

I am simply arguing that before UIPUI and IPFW the Leathernecks are a FAR better option. We aren't moving back on campus rec centers like commuter schools etc. Many of the mentioned teams would be great additions but considering all factors like football etc (no OVC member with football is gonna get in the MVFC). The SL isn't as bad as you think and we have a great recruiting class coming in. Will we beat out Robert Morris? No. Can Murray St. get football done? No. Do we have history? Yes sir.

WIU is on the upswing in terms of hoops, we are coming around for our facility upgrades in turn, and we offer all the right sports without horrible travel. We aren't going to change the globe but Quincy, Quad Cities, Galesburg, Peoria, and Springfield offer us areas to recruit from. The four lane from Spring field to connect Macomb is under way. You can already go north through Galesburg or southwest to Quincy. It is the route for KC to Chicago. I'd love to see a four lane to Peoria done but we aren't on another planet.

The HL teams should not host their own tourney IMO. I am not sure what the popular opinion on that is here. A fun destination city seems like the way to go. Even the SL has huge ticket sales etc hosting in Sioux Falls.

There are a few people who disagree, but most on here would say that the #1 seed (or highest remaining seed) hosting the HL tournament makes the most sense to protect seeding.  It makes absolutely no sense to play an entire regular season conference schedule, and then to only allow one of your worst performing teams the chance to steal an NCAA bid on their home court, simply by 'buying' the rights to hosting.  The team that has the best record through 16-18 games is much more deserving than the team that gets hot over 2-4 games...

[classof2014]

I want to see some consistency out of WIU before I jump aboard. Two good seasons in a weak SL isn't enough for me to say, "I want them." The location does hurt, I don't know much about the program. If they continue the success for another 2-3 seasons. Then I would look at them as a legitimate option as future HL expansion. But for next year I don't think I want them. I'd rather just get Oakland and see if we can get somebody much better, like an RMU type school.

I think the HL should pay attention to WIU, but if they fall back into anonymity then forget about it. Two good season IMO doesn't prove to me that they belong in a better league. If they can perhaps win the SL and have 4 or 5 consecutive successful seasons then, I think it would be time to actually consider WIU as a possibility for future HL expansion.

[Western4Life]

There are a few people who disagree, but most on here would say that the #1 seed (or highest remaining seed) hosting the HL tournament makes the most sense to protect seeding.  It makes absolutely no sense to play an entire regular season conference schedule, and then to only allow one of your worst performing teams the chance to steal an NCAA bid on their home court, simply by 'buying' the rights to hosting.  The team that has the best record through 16-18 games is much more deserving than the team that gets hot over 2-4 games...
[/quote]

That is fair, I like rewarding the regular season champion in some manner. I am not sure what would keep Western from being capable of hosting such an event. Games saw over 4k fans on numerous occasions this year and students have begun to show up which is a difficult task for any Mid Major. If we played Valpo next year you'd see over 4k fans there easy, book it. Same with UIC.

I like playing Valpo, I can get to the school easy and respect the institution. We would offer a good game and you'd be able to get to Macomb without as much hassle as I think it is made out to be.

And finally, this... Just sayin' http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1273.0

Hold off on smashing Macomb too much, we are more of a classic college town than most. Pros and cons to everything. I support the watch and wait mentality as the program has gotten better for hoops and the coach isn't going to leave anytime soon. WIU will show they can compete. It will give the school time to get a new AD and football renovation completed. Hopefully a new arena plan will be on the table as well sooner than later. If a new AD is put in charge IMO I could see a lot of donors coming back that have been a little too quiet as of late. That could be another positive with a move, I keep looking for things to sell us on. We won't all be pros but the cons shouldn't qualify us for a veto IMO.

PS, Hearing a lot of chatter on those UIPUI and IPFW boards...  Overwhelming fan support from what I have read.

[valpotx]

I want to see some consistency out of WIU before I jump aboard. Two good seasons in a weak SL isn't enough for me to say, "I want them." The location does hurt, I don't know much about the program. If they continue the success for another 2-3 seasons. Then I would look at them as a legitimate option as future HL expansion. But for next year I don't think I want them. I'd rather just get Oakland and see if we can get somebody much better, like an RMU type school.

I think the HL should pay attention to WIU, but if they fall back into anonymity then forget about it. Two good season IMO doesn't prove to me that they belong in a better league. If they can perhaps win the SL and have 4 or 5 consecutive successful seasons then, I think it would be time to actually consider WIU as a possibility for future HL expansion.

You keep saying a weak SL.  Over the last 2 seasons, they have been only 4-5 conference spots below us, which is a pretty minimal difference on the whole.  NDSU and SDSU have been able to beat BCS programs, while we have not.  Oakland has beaten us a few times in a row for some god awful reason, and IPFW/IUPUI have also beaten us in recent years.  It is not that large of a difference between the better teams in the SL, and the middle/low end of the HL.  Also, RMU is in an even less successful league, the NEC, and hasn't done anything spectacular recently either.

[Big D]

The biggest problem is who would they be travel partners with.  Most of the conference already has natural travel partners: UWGB/UWM, UIC/Valpo, Detroit/Oakland, CSU/YSU.  WIU does not work with Wright State as a travel partner.  NKU makes much more sense at this time.

[Western4Life]

I do understand the travel partner issue. I am not sure if any other micro region team could do. EIU would be a good squad for us to team up with to join but they have the football issue (MVFC is too legit). Western won't go to the OVC because the step down in football but I had hoped we had a shot in the HL. With UMKC gone and adding DU the SL will bump considerably in RPI etc so I am not here begging. I just feel WIU could be better off in the Great Lakes area rather than Great Plains of the MidWest.

We will see, I wouldn't mind seeing Valpo and WIU have a home and away regardless.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

We will see, I wouldn't mind seeing Valpo and WIU have a home and away regardless.

Agreed.  I still have the 3OT game on VHS tape.  CLASSIC.

Thanks for representing your school (and fan base) on here so well.

[StlVUFan]

That is fair, I like rewarding the regular season champion in some manner. I am not sure what would keep Western from being capable of hosting such an event. Games saw over 4k fans on numerous occasions this year and students have begun to show up which is a difficult task for any Mid Major. If we played Valpo next year you'd see over 4k fans there easy, book it. Same with UIC.

Not sure what the capacity is, but they have upper level on both sides, and both end zones have healthy capacity, so they might actually do better than the ARC in these regards.  The only thing about the upper level is I think there are pillars getting in the way of sight lines (unless I'm remembering wrong).

How about Hotel capacity?

[VULB#62]

That is fair, I like rewarding the regular season champion in some manner. I am not sure what would keep Western from being capable of hosting such an event. Games saw over 4k fans on numerous occasions this year and students have begun to show up which is a difficult task for any Mid Major. If we played Valpo next year you'd see over 4k fans there easy, book it. Same with UIC.

Not sure what the capacity is, but they have upper level on both sides, and both end zones have healthy capacity, so they might actually do better than the ARC in these regards.  The only thing about the upper level is I think there are pillars getting in the way of sight lines (unless I'm remembering wrong).

How about Hotel capacity?

WIU Athletic web site says 5,139.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

How about Hotel capacity?

WIU Athletic web site says 5,139.

...that's pretty big.


also, since a3uge judges you based on your wikipedia page, WIU's is crap.  Just giving it a cursory glance, they claim "Western Illinois University is the only non-military university to use a military nickname" (false; Ave Maria University is the Gyrenes) and the number one alum listed is Don Beebe, which, false.  Any hardcore Bills fan (such as myself) could tell you he went to Chadron State.  It's in Nebraska, and makes WIU seem like Michigan State in comparison.

Imagine the good I could do for society if I spent as much time on Wiki as on here.

[wh]

I want to see some consistency out of WIU before I jump aboard. Two good seasons in a weak SL isn't enough for me to say, "I want them." The location does hurt, I don't know much about the program. If they continue the success for another 2-3 seasons. Then I would look at them as a legitimate option as future HL expansion. But for next year I don't think I want them. I'd rather just get Oakland and see if we can get somebody much better, like an RMU type school.

I think the HL should pay attention to WIU, but if they fall back into anonymity then forget about it. Two good season IMO doesn't prove to me that they belong in a better league. If they can perhaps win the SL and have 4 or 5 consecutive successful seasons then, I think it would be time to actually consider WIU as a possibility for future HL expansion.

You keep saying a weak SL.  Over the last 2 seasons, they have been only 4-5 conference spots below us, which is a pretty minimal difference on the whole.  NDSU and SDSU have been able to beat BCS programs, while we have not.  Oakland has beaten us a few times in a row for some god awful reason, and IPFW/IUPUI have also beaten us in recent years.  It is not that large of a difference between the better teams in the SL, and the middle/low end of the HL.  Also, RMU is in an even less successful league, the NEC, and hasn't done anything spectacular recently either.

The HL finished 12th this year, the Summit 19th.  7 places is a huge difference.  By the way, that's 12th in our 1st season w/o Butler vs. the Summit with the Dakotas carrying the RPI load. Anyone moving from the Summit to the HL is getting a big boost.  For instance, I think Oakland will immediately get a big boost in recruiting, as we know from our own experience. 

Note: the 2 conf's were only 2 places apart last year, but 10 places apart 2 years ago.

[Western4Life]

Macomb has enough hotel capacity etc. The square is classic America and has a lot of places worth visiting. I can't argue the access because it is limited (however much better than the Mid-Con days for sure). Macomb is a quality place that honestly lacks a lot of the problems larger cities have. Macomb's size allows it to cater to the needs of the school better than most communities as well IMO. A little splash of money and a new face or two and Western like any school can have legit success. Within the next 15 years Western and Macomb will increase what they have to offer but so will everyone else. The main point I want to make is we are understanding of our own issues but none of them should limit us from joining any mid major conference. Some schools and leagues constantly forget unless you are in the BCS there isn't a lot of opportunity out there to make a huge impact. Western is focused on producing scholar athletes and seems to do a good job with those goals in mind. I hope that would help us in this process for what it is worth.

Hypothetically, what would change the perception of Western? Macomb growing by 5k-10k in population? More access to Peoria/Springfield? New arena? NCAA/NIT appearance and run? All of the above lol?

FYI, if you swapped DU and UMKC which we will next year the SL would have jumped four spots higher in the ranking. Add UIPUI and Omaha are improving and the SL is on the uptick. No more Southern Utah or Centenary. The Dakotas offer some stability and the SL could always add Chicago St. if worst came to worst. I just want to see more success and stability for Western, I believe that lies in the Horizon. Less travel and more natural rivals.

[valpopal]

From the Wright State Board:

I just got the word that Oakland was voted into the HL today by the presidents.  The HL should have an official announcement this week.