Conference

[crusaderjoe]

I fear if the Horizon invites in someone like Northern Kentucky, we will back in the Mid-Con boat, which served as well for a time, but let's face it, at the end was not a particularly well-thought of conference and didn't do much to further the VU brand.

Paul

Considering that eight of the current nine Horizon League members were in the Mid-Con at one point in time, Northern Kentucky, if added, will have no effect at all in that regard. 

[VU75]

I keep wondering if all the TV spots on the Horizon League games for  Kentucky elk hunting are some kind of foreshadowing.

[oklahomamick]

This comes from the CSU fan forum,

"CSU is stuck in a pro sports town that caters to generally lower income commuter students."

I don't think CSU is the only one in our conference with this issue. 

"Just compare Valpo and CSU.  Valpo has a better campus, better athletic history, way better fan base, actual things to do on campus and it's a private school." 

As someone mentioned in other terms, we share the same neighborhood but are very different and our neighbors see it too.  There is a perception when school are categorized together. 

Besides more private schools, the MVC is just better in all sports.  Let's stay in the HL for a little while and win a couple more titles.  The HL will start changing the tournament format and add sub par schools.  Then we leave. 

Let's remember the HL is not what it once was when they asked us to join.  I'm not saying that because we lost 2 private school (some of you guys don't care and one of them being really competitive in men's bball).  I'm saying it because there was a time the HL regularly sent two teams and also won NCAA tournament games.  Not the case anymore, we send teams who have received 15, 14, and 15 seeds each of the last 3 years.  See the difference?  Let's have some success here and move on. 
 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

it could receive an automatic birth

yikes

[a3uge]

This comes from the CSU fan forum,

"CSU is stuck in a pro sports town that caters to generally lower income commuter students."

I don't think CSU is the only one in our conference with this issue. 

"Just compare Valpo and CSU.  Valpo has a better campus, better athletic history, way better fan base, actual things to do on campus and it's a private school." 

As someone mentioned in other terms, we share the same neighborhood but are very different and our neighbors see it too.  There is a perception when school are categorized together. 

Besides more private schools, the MVC is just better in all sports.  Let's stay in the HL for a little while and win a couple more titles.  The HL will start changing the tournament format and add sub par schools.  Then we leave. 

Let's remember the HL is not what it once was when they asked us to join.  I'm not saying that because we lost 2 private school (some of you guys don't care and one of them being really competitive in men's bball).  I'm saying it because there was a time the HL regularly sent two teams and also won NCAA tournament games.  Not the case anymore, we send teams who have received 15, 14, and 15 seeds each of the last 3 years.  See the difference?  Let's have some success here and move on. 
 

It's not impossible to have success in this league. We were given a 14 seed because the committed did us a 'favor' in placing us close to home. We had the best RPI to finish the season in the history of our program. We would've been a 13 seed the year we lost to Detroit. Last year Green Bay was almost an at-large. This year the Horizon League winner will have a 12 or 13 seed in a down year, and given one more win by Green Bay or Valpo, either team could have been an at-large. I honestly don't understand the superiority complex some of our fans have. Since we've joined the Horizon, we've made 1 NCAA tournament appearance and have won 1 postseason game if you include the CIT, CBI, NIT, and NCAA tournament.

Also, complaining about commuter schools and referencing the MVC is ironic. The #8 ranked Wichita State lost to Illinois State in the semi-finals, who got beat by #11 ranked Northern Iowa in the finals today. Last year Indiana State lost to Wichita State in the finals. The league isn't being propped up by Bradly, Evansville, and Drake. It's just incredibly hard to believe that there's people that are glancing at the bottom score ticker on ESPN and judging school's academic reputation on whom they play in basketball... or that there's people that see Valparaiso @ Evansville and go "damn, Valpo must be a good school if they're playing Evansville" and go "damn, Valpo must be a terrible school if they're playing 'Milwaukee.'" Or that there's a contingency of family members that would react to Valpo playing 'Wright State' one way and 'Drake' the other. I think if I told my friends Valpo was playing Drake, they'd think I was talking about a scrimmage against the Raptors. Who ARE these people that are actually judging Valpo's academics on whom they play in basketball? Parents? Friends? Cousins? If we join the MVC, what will my mother think of us playing Wichita State? I better lie to her and tell her we're playing Oral Roberts instead!

[bbtds]

it could receive an automatic birth

yikes

I heard it's much easier labor with an automatic birth.

The US govt classifies an automatic birth as a new born child that receives US citizenship when born outside the US to a parent with US citizenship.

[oklahomamick]

If we join the MVC, what will my mother think of us playing Wichita State?

Alright, don't bring your mother into this again.  We may not see eye to eye on this, but let's all agree to leave our moms out of this conversation. 

You simply don't agree or believe grouping by association exists.  You have made it clear that academics have nothing to do with athletics (Even though it's student/athletes participating in these events).  I'm sure the student/athlete majoring in liberal studies at CSU who ranks #646 in the nation and last in Ohio according to Forbes is putting the same effort and time into the classes as the student/athlete at #260 Valpo or even #17 Notre Dame and #91 Depauw.     

I'm not trying to put anyone down but instead trying to make a point about the differences the academics make on the student/athlete.  The rigor and expectations are more demanding at one school than another.

Now onto association by grouping.  Imagine Duke being categorized in athletics with NJIT, Chicago St, and NC A&M.  After years of being associated and grouped with those schools, would the mass be surprised by Duke's academic prestige?  Maybe that's a bad example, because everyone knows of Duke.  Valpo is not as recognized as Duke.  So those who don't know of Valpo or live thousands of miles from Indiana may assume that because Valpo is grouped athletically with those schools they must have a lot of similarities.

If you still don't understand, try this....When people ask who is in Valpo's conference and you say Butler and Loyola do you get the same reaction or response as when you responded with #646 CSU and #598 UWM?  If you get the same response with those two different answers I guess I'm wrong. 
   

[oklahomamick]

We would've been a 13 seed the year we lost to Detroit. Last year Green Bay was almost an at-large. This year the Horizon League winner will have a 12 or 13 seed in a down year, and given one more win by Green Bay or Valpo, either team could have been an at-large. I honestly don't understand the superiority complex some of our fans have. Since we've joined the Horizon, we've made 1 NCAA tournament appearance and have won 1 postseason game if you include the CIT, CBI, NIT, and NCAA tournament.

Someone said that we were only allowed one; woulda-coulda-shouldas.  I used mine earlier this year when saying how close were from being undefeated in conference play after losing by 1 point in GB and in overtime in Oakland. 

No superiorty complex from this fan...We have won a couple times in the HL but are no means dominant.  The points i'm trying to make about our conference headed by LeCrone Nodirection or LeCrone Contenment have been made in my above post. 

I understand I'm in the minority when it comes to this opinion on the HL.  But was just hoping people would understand what I'm trying to point out.   

[a3uge]

If we join the MVC, what will my mother think of us playing Wichita State?

Alright, don't bring your mother into this again.  We may not see eye to eye on this, but let's all agree to leave our moms out of this conversation. 

You simply don't agree or believe grouping by association exists.  You have made it clear that academics have nothing to do with athletics (Even though it's student/athletes participating in these events).  I'm sure the student/athlete majoring in liberal studies at CSU who ranks #646 in the nation and last in Ohio according to Forbes is putting the same effort and time into the classes as the student/athlete at #260 Valpo or even #17 Notre Dame and #91 Depauw.     

I'm not trying to put anyone down but instead trying to make a point about the differences the academics make on the student/athlete.  The rigor and expectations are more demanding at one school than another.

Now onto association by grouping.  Imagine Duke being categorized in athletics with NJIT, Chicago St, and NC A&M.  After years of being associated and grouped with those schools, would the mass be surprised by Duke's academic prestige?  Maybe that's a bad example, because everyone knows of Duke.  Valpo is not as recognized as Duke.  So those who don't know of Valpo or live thousands of miles from Indiana may assume that because Valpo is grouped athletically with those schools they must have a lot of similarities.

If you still don't understand, try this....When people ask who is in Valpo's conference and you say Butler and Loyola do you get the same reaction or response as when you responded with #646 CSU and #598 UWM?  If you get the same response with those two different answers I guess I'm wrong. 

We spent years with Chicago State being in our conference and it didn't impact our academic reputation. I'm not sure who this guy is that lives 1000 miles away from Indiana judging schools based on their mid major conference, but I'll say hay to this strawman if I ever meet him. I don't think I've ever been asked who plays in Valpo's conference, but if someone asked, I'd probably tell them 'UWM' if they're a friend from the Milwaukee area... they made a Sweet 16 run back in the day, maybe they remember that. Detroit-Mercy may draw some blank stares. If we were in this mythical scenario of joining the Big East, I'd probably say Butler because they made it to the finals a couple years in a row, or Georgetown, or Villanova, they've seemed to have some success playing basketball. But if we were in the MVC, I don't think my go-to answer would be 'Drake' or 'Evansville' - but maybe, I don't know, I'd pick a team a team that made the Final Four a couple years ago? Or the team that just won the conference and is ranked 11th? Or maybe 'Indiana State Larry Bird Went to School There'? Typically, if people are asking me about sports, I assume they're not cryptically asking me how decent a school Valpo is based on whom they play in basketball. You're right, I just don't agree that people make a connection between athletic conferences and academics because when it comes to mid-major sports, most people don't really care.

Do I think Oral Roberts is a crappy school because they play IUPUI and IPFW? No not really. Does anyone really care? Probably not. I think the notion that we should disassociate with Cleveland State or Wright State because we're academically superior just reaks of elitism and entitlement. Again, I think Valpo should make athletics decisions based on athletics, not based on being self-conscious about what people 1000 miles away will think about Valpo if they find out we play UIC in basketball.

[justducky]

Now onto association by grouping.  Imagine Duke being categorized in athletics with NJIT, Chicago St, and NC A&M.  After years of being associated and grouped with those schools, would the mass be surprised by Duke's academic prestige?  Maybe that's a bad example, because everyone knows of Duke.  Valpo is not as recognized as Duke.  So those who don't know of Valpo or live thousands of miles from Indiana may assume that because Valpo is grouped athletically with those schools they must have a lot of similarities.

98% of the world I live in would never think like this and the 2% who do would have as little desire to hang with me as I would to hang with them.

Let me rephrase this in a slightly different manor. I am a very confident individual who has no concern that my association with any of the morons on this board will reflect badly on either my character or accomplishments. 

My apologies to the entire board but sometimes you just get a punchline gift wrapped and handed to you.

[historyman]

If you still don't understand, try this....When people ask who is in Valpo's conference and you say Butler and Loyola do you get the same reaction or response as when you responded with #646 CSU and #598 UWM?  If you get the same response with those two different answers I guess I'm wrong.     

You are wrong. Besides that who really cares what people think if they don't care enough to know about a school like Valpo. Those that know enough about Valpo's academic reputation and athletic success are probably the kind of intelligent people I want to be friends with. I don't really care what people think who don't go to the extent of knowing about a good school such as Valpo!

[oklahomamick]

I guess I'm in the minority with the guy from drake that came over and started the thread.  But I gave my    regardless of private schools in the mvc, it's a better conference and I hope that we are always trying to improve ourselves and are reaching out to them.

[a3uge]

I guess I'm in the minority with the guy from drake that came over and started the thread.  But I gave my    regardless of private schools in the mvc, it's a better conference and I hope that we are always trying to improve ourselves and are reaching out to them.

This I can get behind... But be careful what you wish for. Wichita State spends twice as much as Valpo on basketball and we could be waiting years to ramp up and be contenders in that league.

[FWalum]

I guess I'm in the minority with the guy from drake that came over and started the thread.  But I gave my    regardless of private schools in the mvc, it's a better conference and I hope that we are always trying to improve ourselves and are reaching out to them.

This I can get behind... But be careful what you wish for. Wichita State spends twice as much as Valpo on basketball and we could be waiting years to ramp up and be contenders in that league.

Having not watched much MVC basketball outside of a few Evansville games, are you saying that the current status of our program is not equal to an Illinois State or Indiana State?  I am talking about performance and not spending.

[a3uge]

I guess I'm in the minority with the guy from drake that came over and started the thread.  But I gave my    regardless of private schools in the mvc, it's a better conference and I hope that we are always trying to improve ourselves and are reaching out to them.

This I can get behind... But be careful what you wish for. Wichita State spends twice as much as Valpo on basketball and we could be waiting years to ramp up and be contenders in that league.

Having not watched much MVC basketball outside of a few Evansville games, are you saying that the current status of our program is not equal to an Illinois State or Indiana State?  I am talking about performance and not spending.

Not at all - I'm saying that it may be hard to contend for a championship with Wichita State dominating the conference, and now maybe UNI. Illinois State just beat Wichita State and was rewarded with playing UNI and missed the tournament. We'd essentially need to be an at-large team. Right now we have a legitimate shot each year of making the tournament. I fear that in a top-heavy MVC we'd have a much more difficult time truly elevating the program by getting back into the tournament. When we left the Summit, we had won the league consistently and outgrew the league. I don't think you can say that about us in the Horizon. I'd just be cautious with expectations if we jumped leagues.

[oklahomamick]

This I can get behind... But be careful what you wish for. Wichita State spends twice as much as Valpo on basketball and we could be waiting years to ramp up and be contenders in that league.

Yeah, and then I'll have something else to complain about. 

[a3uge]

This I can get behind... But be careful what you wish for. Wichita State spends twice as much as Valpo on basketball and we could be waiting years to ramp up and be contenders in that league.

Yeah, and then I'll have something else to complain about.

:p

[valpo84]

There were three reasons for moving from the Summit to the Horizon: (i) proximity of alumni base to where the schools are located, (ii) travel costs and student-athlete travel, and (ii) more schools like us. As to (i), we have now lost Indianapolis and half of Chicago. As to (ii), we lost two of the schools most like us. Three has remained constant and is still an important reason the Horizon works. The schools we lost however were "rivals" both athletics and academics. We compete for students with those schools (and Miami of Ohio, Dayton, Illinois, Purdue and Indiana as other examples). UWGB, UWM, CSU, UIC and YSU are historic athletic foes (at least some part of the past nearly 30 years). Wright St for parts of the past 20 years. Their locations overlap with about 65% of our alumni base now that Butler/Indy is gone, but one would not consider them rivals for students or for athletes. (The Duke argument as an aside is now kind of funny when you think that in their neighborhood have been 3 schools with some of the biggest hoops scandals of the past 20 years or so -- UNC, Syracuse and NC State. The ACC has private and public schools (Wake, BC, ND, GaTech, Miami and Duke). Their strength historically was geographic proximity and traditional rivalries.)

I digress. There are 2 conferences that we could compete in immediately and have some of the attributes of why we moved to the Horizon -- the Big East and the MVC. I am not a fan of the MVC for us because it does not cover our alumni geographic footprint. Iowa, Kansas, Southern Indiana and central-southern Indiana are not the same as Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee. Many of those schools also play scholarship football. Frankly, it's where YSU should go. If STL and Creighton were in the MVC, then it may make more sense. The Big East does give us Milwaukee, Chicago, Indy and the East Coast. That's better and they are private, mostly Christian/Catholic Universities, some of which play non-scholly FB. What I am most concerned with is ending up another Summit. That was why I was opposed to Oakland. These lower-tier state schools are not with whom we should be playing or in a conference. If we add a NKU or IPFW or IUPUI then we are resigned to the old Summit. That's disappointing. If we could add a Belmont or a SLU, then maybe we save what the Horizon was. We need to step up for the stability and because the athletic department deserves better. Butler jumped to the Big East after they had lost a bunch to us so we could compete, our RPI would be better and we would have better chances at at large. At a minimum, better TV contracts and more prestige, and yes it matters when they scroll Valpo beats Providence or DePaul or Butler, especially when one of those schools has a number in front of it.

The other location is A-10. As many positives, there are a few negatives -- travel and alumni base overlap being the two biggest. But, we should schedule more of those schools -- Dayton, Davidson come to mind because we are in the same fb conference.

Bottom line is Valpo has to do what's best for Valpo. We need a strong, stable conference that meets are primary goals. The Horizon was that, but continuing on with CSU and WSU and YSU doesn't interest me. There is no commonality. I've been to those arenas many times and it gets tougher every year because our players, coaches, students and alumni deserve better. Someone complained about student attendance, would there be more enthusiasm if schools like Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, etc. came into the ARC? Or, for NKU and IPFW?

[chef]

I think most people who are informed know that Valpo is a good academic school and that the Horizon League is an above average mid-major basketball conference based in the midwest. The two issues are independent. I almost never think about the two at the same time, nor is it important to me what is the academic reputation of any opponent. Why are there conferences? Would there be conferences if athletics didn't exist? Doesn't it seem the two most important issues involving what conference a school is in are:
1. Are the schools similar in athletics (especially men's basketball)
2. Are the schools in the same geographic region

[crusaderjoe]

I think most people who are informed know that Valpo is a good academic school and that the Horizon League is an above average mid-major basketball conference based in the midwest. The two issues are independent. I almost never think about the two at the same time, nor is it important to me what is the academic reputation of any opponent. Why are there conferences? Would there be conferences if athletics didn't exist? Doesn't it seem the two most important issues involving what conference a school is in are:
1. Are the schools similar in athletics (especially men's basketball)
2. Are the schools in the same geographic region

This sentiment and feeling may be true for most fans on this board, including myself.  However, honestly, I also think it is a little naive to state plainly that academic and athletic considerations are entirely separated where conference affiliation is concerned, even at the D-I level.  Consider the following.  There is a reason why the WCC is made up entirely of private, faith based institutions.  There is a reason why the Big East is all private and near all Catholic.  There is a reason why the Big Ten is near all AAU.  There is a reason why the A-10 is near all private, and there is a reason why the Ivy League consists the way it does.  These conference configurations show clearly that there are academic and athletic considerations in play in athletic conference formation at the D-I level in some instances. 

Consider this also.  When Valpo moved to the HL, one of the reasons why we moved was because a more geographically compact conference meant that there would be a reduction in the amount of class time missed by the student athletes--a purely academic consideration in the context of an athletic conference discussion.  Again, these issues were not necessarily independent.

For Valpo, as I have maintained for years on this board, the question becomes whether the public vs. private distinction is important to the Administration so much so that it would prefer that VU align itself with other peer like institutions when exploring athletic conference affiliation.  In its D-I history, before VU moved to the HL, Valpo was conference mates with only two private schools in its history (Centenary and ORU) and was a charter member of a conference where it was the only private school for many years.  HL membership provided VU with more private collegial exposure athletically for a while, which was generally inconsistent with VU's D-I conference history. It remains to be seen what happens moving forward if another offer from another conference is extended, IMO.

Not sure where I got automatic birth from...I meant bid.

[classof2014]

The MVC still makes the most sense. They're the most "like" us. Geographically speaking, academically, and athletically. The MVC doesn't have the big cities like the HL does but it still has Chicago, basically the whole state of Illinois, pick up much of Indiana, and the Des Moines area as well.

Yes, we lose Milwaukee, Detroit, and Ohio fanbases but we pick up just about the whole state of Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, parts of Kentucky, Missouri, and Kansas.

Obviously the best option would be the HL to pick up two like schools to us but if that doesn't happen the MVC wouldn't be a bad option at all.

[a3uge]

There were three reasons for moving from the Summit to the Horizon: (i) proximity of alumni base to where the schools are located, (ii) travel costs and student-athlete travel, and (ii) more schools like us. As to (i), we have now lost Indianapolis and half of Chicago. As to (ii), we lost two of the schools most like us. Three has remained constant and is still an important reason the Horizon works. The schools we lost however were "rivals" both athletics and academics. We compete for students with those schools (and Miami of Ohio, Dayton, Illinois, Purdue and Indiana as other examples). UWGB, UWM, CSU, UIC and YSU are historic athletic foes (at least some part of the past nearly 30 years). Wright St for parts of the past 20 years. Their locations overlap with about 65% of our alumni base now that Butler/Indy is gone, but one would not consider them rivals for students or for athletes. (The Duke argument as an aside is now kind of funny when you think that in their neighborhood have been 3 schools with some of the biggest hoops scandals of the past 20 years or so -- UNC, Syracuse and NC State. The ACC has private and public schools (Wake, BC, ND, GaTech, Miami and Duke). Their strength historically was geographic proximity and traditional rivalries.)

I digress. There are 2 conferences that we could compete in immediately and have some of the attributes of why we moved to the Horizon -- the Big East and the MVC. I am not a fan of the MVC for us because it does not cover our alumni geographic footprint. Iowa, Kansas, Southern Indiana and central-southern Indiana are not the same as Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee. Many of those schools also play scholarship football. Frankly, it's where YSU should go. If STL and Creighton were in the MVC, then it may make more sense. The Big East does give us Milwaukee, Chicago, Indy and the East Coast. That's better and they are private, mostly Christian/Catholic Universities, some of which play non-scholly FB. What I am most concerned with is ending up another Summit. That was why I was opposed to Oakland. These lower-tier state schools are not with whom we should be playing or in a conference. If we add a NKU or IPFW or IUPUI then we are resigned to the old Summit. That's disappointing. If we could add a Belmont or a SLU, then maybe we save what the Horizon was. We need to step up for the stability and because the athletic department deserves better. Butler jumped to the Big East after they had lost a bunch to us so we could compete, our RPI would be better and we would have better chances at at large. At a minimum, better TV contracts and more prestige, and yes it matters when they scroll Valpo beats Providence or DePaul or Butler, especially when one of those schools has a number in front of it.

The other location is A-10. As many positives, there are a few negatives -- travel and alumni base overlap being the two biggest. But, we should schedule more of those schools -- Dayton, Davidson come to mind because we are in the same fb conference.

Bottom line is Valpo has to do what's best for Valpo. We need a strong, stable conference that meets are primary goals. The Horizon was that, but continuing on with CSU and WSU and YSU doesn't interest me. There is no commonality. I've been to those arenas many times and it gets tougher every year because our players, coaches, students and alumni deserve better. Someone complained about student attendance, would there be more enthusiasm if schools like Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, etc. came into the ARC? Or, for NKU and IPFW?

Not trying to go overboard, but talking about Valpo joining the Big East might be the most delusional thing I've read on this board.

[valpo84]

"Delusional?" Cockeyed Optimist may be? Who would have thought we'd be where we are in basketball in 1988?

Who would have thought Butler would be in the Big East a few years ago?

If you don't have aspirational goals as an organization then how do you know where you want to be?

[a3uge]

"Delusional?" Cockeyed Optimist may be? Who would have thought we'd be where we are in basketball in 1988?

Who would have thought Butler would be in the Big East a few years ago?

If you don't have aspirational goals as an organization then how do you know where you want to be?

Aspiring to have back to back finals appearances, over twice the athletic budget, and geographically reside in a large TV market where we're essentially the only D1 team? Yes, that would be delusional.

[wh]

There were three reasons for moving from the Summit to the Horizon: (i) proximity of alumni base to where the schools are located, (ii) travel costs and student-athlete travel, and (ii) more schools like us. As to (i), we have now lost Indianapolis and half of Chicago. As to (ii), we lost two of the schools most like us. Three has remained constant and is still an important reason the Horizon works. The schools we lost however were "rivals" both athletics and academics. We compete for students with those schools (and Miami of Ohio, Dayton, Illinois, Purdue and Indiana as other examples). UWGB, UWM, CSU, UIC and YSU are historic athletic foes (at least some part of the past nearly 30 years). Wright St for parts of the past 20 years. Their locations overlap with about 65% of our alumni base now that Butler/Indy is gone, but one would not consider them rivals for students or for athletes. (The Duke argument as an aside is now kind of funny when you think that in their neighborhood have been 3 schools with some of the biggest hoops scandals of the past 20 years or so -- UNC, Syracuse and NC State. The ACC has private and public schools (Wake, BC, ND, GaTech, Miami and Duke). Their strength historically was geographic proximity and traditional rivalries.)

I digress. There are 2 conferences that we could compete in immediately and have some of the attributes of why we moved to the Horizon -- the Big East and the MVC. I am not a fan of the MVC for us because it does not cover our alumni geographic footprint. Iowa, Kansas, Southern Indiana and central-southern Indiana are not the same as Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee. Many of those schools also play scholarship football. Frankly, it's where YSU should go. If STL and Creighton were in the MVC, then it may make more sense. The Big East does give us Milwaukee, Chicago, Indy and the East Coast. That's better and they are private, mostly Christian/Catholic Universities, some of which play non-scholly FB. What I am most concerned with is ending up another Summit. That was why I was opposed to Oakland. These lower-tier state schools are not with whom we should be playing or in a conference. If we add a NKU or IPFW or IUPUI then we are resigned to the old Summit. That's disappointing. If we could add a Belmont or a SLU, then maybe we save what the Horizon was. We need to step up for the stability and because the athletic department deserves better. Butler jumped to the Big East after they had lost a bunch to us so we could compete, our RPI would be better and we would have better chances at at large. At a minimum, better TV contracts and more prestige, and yes it matters when they scroll Valpo beats Providence or DePaul or Butler, especially when one of those schools has a number in front of it.

The other location is A-10. As many positives, there are a few negatives -- travel and alumni base overlap being the two biggest. But, we should schedule more of those schools -- Dayton, Davidson come to mind because we are in the same fb conference.

Bottom line is Valpo has to do what's best for Valpo. We need a strong, stable conference that meets are primary goals. The Horizon was that, but continuing on with CSU and WSU and YSU doesn't interest me. There is no commonality. I've been to those arenas many times and it gets tougher every year because our players, coaches, students and alumni deserve better. Someone complained about student attendance, would there be more enthusiasm if schools like Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, etc. came into the ARC? Or, for NKU and IPFW?

Not trying to go overboard, but talking about Valpo joining the Big East might be the most delusional thing I've read on this board.

I think '84's post deserves more than a short, dismissive response. I agree with '84 that we shouldn't pigeonhole our considerations strictly to the MVC. Butler certainly didn't, and they are in closer proximity to the heart of the MVC than Valpo is. Personally, I find the idea of joining the A10 kind of intriguing. I don't have time to get into it right now, but hopefully we can that thought around a little bit.

Get post, '84 - we'll articulated, out of the box...