Game #3: Trinity International

[VULB#62]

Next game; next man up. Let the discussion begin.

[Dojan123]

The kids need this one. Going into Davison 0-3 would cause panic to set in.

[VULB#62]

In the past (going back to the Carlson era even), it was my observation that after coming off two tough OOC games, one of which was always against an FCS  full scholarship team, Valpo had a tendency to somehow come into the third game against a lesser opponent with a strange (to me, at least) mentality:  instead of putting the pedal to the metal, they seemed to, many times, assume they would win ("heck, we're D-I and just played scholarship schools and they're just NAIA, D-III, D-II, whatever") and not come into the game with the necessary determination and instinct to dominate.  As a result games were closer than expected and in some cases turned into losses.  I hope the coaches and players realize how crucial this next game is to the overall immediate and long-term success of the program and act on that.

[usc4valpo]

Trinity is not College of Faith.

Trinity lost by 2 TD's to St. Francis (ind.), whm FWAlum has mentioned are really good and would defeat Valpo easily.

I think the Bill Hybels express will give the Saders a tougher game than most think. Valpo may be categorized as Div. I, but in reality they are Div. 3.

[VULB#62]

Precisely.

[VULB#62]

TIU 2016 record (1-1-0)

8/27 - St. Francis (IN) - LOSS - 20-34 (SFU had a 34-6 lead at the 10:50 mark of the 4th quarter; last 2 TIU TDs against scrubs?)
9/3  - Wisconsin Lutheran - WIN - 55-21 (built a 31 point lead into the 3rd quarter; total offense 693 to 326.  WLU is now 0-1 and plays NCAA D-III)
9/10 - OFF (coming off a solid win with plenty of time to heal wounds and prepare a game plan)

Tale of the Tape from the TIU Roster: obviously does not convey skill, strength, talent or speed levels

Number of players: 93

Average size (player totals do not add up to 93; e.g., I didn't include kickers or specialists):
DL/DEs (14): 5-11¾, 262
LBs(14):5-9½, 206
DBs(15): 5-10. 180

OL(14): 6-1, 277
WR(15): 5'11¾, 177¾
RBs(7): 5-8, 173
QBs (4): 6-1, 197
TEs(2): 6-½, 220

[VU2624]

TIU 2016 record (1-1-0) 8/27 - St. Francis (IN) - LOSS - 20-34 (SFU had a 34-6 lead at the 10:50 mark of the 4th quarter; last 2 TIU TDs against scrubs?) 9/3  - Wisconsin Lutheran - WIN - 55-21 (built a 31 point lead into the 3rd quarter; total offense 693 to 326.  WLU is now 0-1 and plays NCAA D-III) 9/10 - OFF (coming off a solid win with plenty of time to heal wounds and prepare a game plan) Tale of the Tape from the TIU Roster: obviously does not convey skill, strength, talent or speed levels Number of players: 93 Average size: DL/DEs (14): 5-11¾, 262 LBs(14):5-9½, 206 DBs(15): 5-10. 180 OL(14): 6-1, 277 WR(15): 5'11¾, 177¾ RBs(7): 5-8, 173 QBs (4): 6-1, 197 TEs(2): 6-½, 220

I've tried the "let's see who they play and convert that to who and how we play" in the past and it is tough to do. The conference they play in appears to be quite weak and they've had similar results against those two teams in the past so I don't know what we can tell from it.

The biggest issue the first two games has been the interior lines. That should, at the least, even out for this game if not go the other way. Need Kye Hall back. OLB struggling to get to the near side a couple of times yesterday. DL got pushed around. DBs under a lot of pressure because the QB had all kinds of time. RBs really haven't had much to work with in terms of holes. Announcers complimented the WRs that they had good speed and were open all game. Two effective TE/HBs and they actually ran a couple of nice screens yesterday IIRC. We'll see what happens at QB.

[78crusader]

Several posters have mentioned the small number of seniors on this year's team.  I got to wondering if this has been true of most VU teams. 

We are in the process of moving and, coincidentally, I found a 1970 homecoming program that for some reason I had in a box in my garage.  The 1970 squad (one of our better teams) only had 10 seniors.

Paul

By the way, we played Washington (St. Louis) that year and beat them.  US News will come out with its annual College Rankings tomorrow and Washington will once again be listed as one of the Top 25 National Universities. 

[VU2624]

In terms of class and eligibility I think there are 5 Srs or RS Srs but there are also 8 or 9 RS Jrs and I wouldn't expect too many, if any, to return other than Nunes.

[vu72]

TIU 2016 record (1-1-0) 8/27 - St. Francis (IN) - LOSS - 20-34 (SFU had a 34-6 lead at the 10:50 mark of the 4th quarter; last 2 TIU TDs against scrubs?) 9/3  - Wisconsin Lutheran - WIN - 55-21 (built a 31 point lead into the 3rd quarter; total offense 693 to 326.  WLU is now 0-1 and plays NCAA D-III) 9/10 - OFF (coming off a solid win with plenty of time to heal wounds and prepare a game plan) Tale of the Tape from the TIU Roster: obviously does not convey skill, strength, talent or speed levels Number of players: 93 Average size: DL/DEs (14): 5-11¾, 262 LBs(14):5-9½, 206 DBs(15): 5-10. 180 OL(14): 6-1, 277 WR(15): 5'11¾, 177¾ RBs(7): 5-8, 173 QBs (4): 6-1, 197 TEs(2): 6-½, 220

I've tried the "let's see who they play and convert that to who and how we play" in the past and it is tough to do. The conference they play in appears to be quite weak and they've had similar results against those two teams in the past so I don't know what we can tell from it.

The biggest issue the first two games has been the interior lines. That should, at the least, even out for this game if not go the other way. Need Kye Hall back. OLB struggling to get to the near side a couple of times yesterday. DL got pushed around. DBs under a lot of pressure because the QB had all kinds of time. RBs really haven't had much to work with in terms of holes. Announcers complimented the WRs that they had good speed and were open all game. Two effective TE/HBs and they actually ran a couple of nice screens yesterday IIRC. We'll see what happens at QB.

I don't really think Valpo is particularly small on the lines.  We are young and certainly not as strong as lines from ISU or SH.  We have 4 guys over 300 and 14 over 280.

[VULB#62]

Until the program really gets its feet under it and becomes a consistent winner, I doubt we will see significant senior retention. While recruiting has produced some improving results, I'm thinking we haven't yet recruited that "special class" that will put us over the hump.  That class will retain the 10-15 seniors who will be the foundation of teams to come.

[covufan]

Defense needs to step up.

Valpo   41
Trin Int  13

[VULB#62]

I don't really think Valpo is particularly small on the lines.  We are young and certainly not as strong as lines from ISU or SH.  We have 4 guys over 300 and 14 over 280.

Averages by way of comparison with TIU (again not taking into account specialists and skill, talent, strength, etc)

TIU                                        VALPO
DL/DEs (14): 5-11¾, 262         6-3, 250
LBs(14):5-9½, 206                   6-0, 218
DBs(15): 5-10. 180                  5-11, 184

OL(14): 6-1, 277                      6-2, 293
WR(15): 5'11¾, 177¾              5-11, 182
RBs(7): 5-8, 173                       6-1, 215
QBs (4): 6-1, 197                     6-3, 201
TEs(2): 6-½, 220                      6-3, 219

Generally, when the teams take the field on Saturday Valpo will look bigger overall, because we are taller pretty much across the board.  Most TIU OL and DL are < 6-0, i.e., Fire plug kind of guys.

[bbtds]

Several posters have mentioned the small number of seniors on this year's team.  I got to wondering if this has been true of most VU teams. 

We are in the process of moving and, coincidentally, I found a 1970 homecoming program that for some reason I had in a box in my garage.  The 1970 squad (one of our better teams) only had 10 seniors.

Paul

By the way, we played Washington (St. Louis) that year and beat them.  US News will come out with its annual College Rankings tomorrow and Washington will once again be listed as one of the Top 25 National Universities. 

I actually attended that Valpo vs WUSTL game. It was the first football game I ever attended at the age of 9 years old.

[usc4valpo]

2624 - my feeling is that Trinity will not be a gimme. This is a hunch.

Trinity played St. Francis (IN) and lost by 2 TDs. St. Francis would handle Valpo easily

Trinity will face St. Ambrose, another team that would handle Valpo easily.

Remember, Valpo is reality is a Div. 3 program in talent. But I think the Saders win as they are improved. Start Seawald and toss it up early and often.

Valpo 38, Trinity 21.

[VULB#62]

IMO, too early in the week to predict a score.  We'll have to wait for injury news, returns from suspensions, the Todd Ickow interview with Coach Cecchini (should be on the site tomorrow), and a clue or two in the newest two-deep (yeah, I know - can't really depend on it), etc. The big question:  who starts at QB?  Ryan or Jimmy?

USC --  that 2 TD loss to St. Francis came after falling behind 34-6 at the 10:50 mark of the 4th quarter; TIU's last 2 TDs were probably against scrubs during garbage time, so that might not be a good barometer.   

I also think the D will step up after being beaten into the ground by two scholarship opponents, so maybe just 14 for TIU. Can't even begin to guess what our O is capable of doing, so that is a big question mark.

[usc4valpo]

62 - you are amazing. How would you find out specific information on a St. Francis - Trinity matchup?

All I am saying is that we should not take this matchup for granted.

[IndyValpo]

But I think the Saders win as they are improved

Please quit calling us the Saders

Until the program really gets its feet under it and becomes a consistent winner, I doubt we will see significant senior retention. While recruiting has produced some improving results, I'm thinking we haven't yet recruited that "special class" that will put us over the hump.  That class will retain the 10-15 seniors who will be the foundation of teams to come.

As an fyi...Butler's roster lists 2 seniors and 10 5th year seniors.

[VULB#62]

62 - you are amazing. How would you find out specific information on a St. Francis - Trinity matchup?

All I am saying is that we should not take this matchup for granted.

Not really -- just went to the opponents' website and checked the box scores.  I did this for SHU as well.  For instance for TIU I looked at both the TIU AND the SFU sites for differences in how the different write-ups described the game (the box scores, of course, were the same). It was the opening game of the season for both and SFU definitely took their foot off the pedal and began evaluating backups. TIU kept their starters in well into the 4th to salvage some pride.

I personally believe that we have a slight edge in size and talent, but I agree -- they could beat us ..... IF the Valpo players continue to underestimate the less than FCS opposition.   TIU will also want to get a D-I scalp on their belt.  We, with our record over time, certainly don't make other teams, regardless of level of program, shake in their boots.  So.... Who has the greater motivation?

[Valpo89]

Please quit calling us the Saders

Thank you

[VULB#62]

Here's the Ickow/Cecchini preview for TIU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6p3RCKyReI

[usc4valpo]

What is wrong with Saders? Others have referred to them as that. I have also heard it on Sports radio

[VULB#62]

What is wrong with Saders? Others have referred to them as that. I have also heard it on Sports radio

USC, I think it goes back a year or two to a troll who used that term as a part of his handle (maybe sadersofthelostarc?) and made some outlandish posts.      He always referred to Valpo as the 'Saders.  It left a bad taste in many poster's mouths.  Somebody more familiar with that might have better info.

[VU2624]

I don't think we can draw any conclusions as to how good or bad or how much better or worse any of these NAIA teams are since there appears to be no crossover in games played vs teams which you can compare teams which Valpo has played. The only matchup is Missouri Baptist which is a fairly new program which all of these teams seem to dominate and that includes Valpo a few years ago.

With that said, Valpo should not be taking any team for granted.

[Valpo89]

Saders is bad. It's lazy. It sounds stupid.

Thank you.