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Some Faculty Members are trying to get rid of the Crusader & Change the Mascot..

Started by VU2014, March 28, 2017, 12:53:02 PM

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Are you in favor of changing the Valparaiso University Mascot?

No
Yes
I have no opinion either way

vu84v2

I am not a huge fan of the Crusader nickname, but I agree that this is not the time and place for a name change. I have never heard that the university and its population engages in any bias towards Muslims, though I am sure as part of society there are probably a few isolated (and repugnant) cases at the university. Heck, the root of my knowledge on Islam (which proved invaluable later in my prior career) was my learning at Valparaiso. So while I might argue that the nickname is problematic, the gain of changing the name is minimal and the cost of trying to change it could be great. There would be a vocal minority in favor of it and a vocal minority against it. They may well create publicly visible tensions that are likely to turn off many potential applicants. This is regardless of the potential applicants' position on the issue - they would just not want to go into an environment with a lot of heated emotions when they have many other options. The whole ballgame for the next year or more is to attract students, get them to attend the university, and provide great value (within and outside the classroom). This is what keeps the university financially sustainable.

I really don't understand why some faculty don't see what is really important right now. Wouldn't they create more "good" by teaching an extra class (to generate incremental revenue for Valpo) or by taking part in the massive issues of logistic planning or building relationships with prospective or incoming students? If they taught an additional class, they could: take the pay, if they need it, and then spend it in the Valparaiso area; defer the pay (via a future teaching load credit) and create near term margin for Valpo; or take the pay and then donate it back to the university for minority scholarships.

Bottom line: our priority right now needs to be sustaining the institution, because so much is lost if the institution fails.




valpo95

Quote from: wh on June 30, 2020, 11:44:13 AM

These individuals are trying to "catch the wave" of national dissonance and anarchy and leverage it for their own purpose. If anyone else is clamoring for a name change right now, I certainly haven't heard of it.  I have 2 HS grandsons (cousins) considering Valpo's Engineering program. They are bright, serious-minded young men. Believe me, the last thing they or their parents are thinking about is the name of the mascot.   


Two quick points: First, I can't speak to leverage, yet some momentum for the change is visible. There is a Facebook group titled "Coalition to Retire the Crusader" that was started on June 24, 2020 and as of a few minutes ago had 1,950 members. That group is talking about the mascot, yet also has many side discussions about issues happening at the University. (BTW, I've been invited to join that FB group, yet have only lurked and read the posts.)

Second, as a VU Engineering alum, I can attest to the quality of education at Valpo. I received a world-class engineering foundation and a well-rounded liberal arts background that has allowed me to be very successful. There are only two main downsides to Valpo Engineering. First,  it does not have the name cachet of say MIT, Purdue or Northwestern, especially outside of the region. Second, VU engineering has a smaller course catalog, so someone who wants to do Chemical Engineering would need to find a different location. That said, the undergraduate engineering is at least as good or better than any of the bigger schools I mentioned. 

vu84v2

Second, as a VU Engineering alum, I can attest to the quality of education at Valpo. I received a world-class engineering foundation and a well-rounded liberal arts background that has allowed me to be very successful. There are only two main downsides to Valpo Engineering. First,  it does not have the name cachet of say MIT, Purdue or Northwestern, especially outside of the region. Second, VU engineering has a smaller course catalog, so someone who wants to do Chemical Engineering would need to find a different location. That said, the undergraduate engineering is at least as good or better than any of the bigger schools I mentioned. 

[/quote]

I am also a VU Engineering alum. I fully agree with valpo95's comments, but add that the faculty (back in my time and now) really make the difference for Valpo's engineering students. They are consistently committed to engineering education and the students. They're not going to make it easy for any student, but they will personally endeavor to help every student achieve. To anyone considering Valparaiso's College of Engineering, I strongly recommend meeting with faculty to develop their own impressions.

Valpo95's comments about the mix of liberal arts with a great engineering program are also spot on. Years ago, I was involved in recruiting new Valparaiso engineering graduates for the company that I worked for. The managers who hired these graduates without exception said that Valpo engineers had very good engineering skills, but differentiate themselves in their ability to communicate and work effectively as part of a larger team.

vu72

So I am NOT a Valpo engineering grad!  I'd like to hear those who are, and know what's going on right now, as to the engineering facilities.  The Don Fites addtion as well as having the only undergraduate solar furnace in the country, would lead me to expect the facilities to be just fine.

Too many Valpo grads seem to have inferiority complexes. You know, "Valpo is fine but it is no where near the Ivy league".  Clearly there are many areas of study at Valpo that are just "OK", but there are others that are every bit as good as institutions with much higher profiles.
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Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

vu84v2

Quote from: vu72 on June 30, 2020, 03:45:33 PM
So I am NOT a Valpo engineering grad!  I'd like to hear those who are, and know what's going on right now, as to the engineering facilities.  The Don Fites addtion as well as having the only undergraduate solar furnace in the country, would lead me to expect the facilities to be just fine.

Too many Valpo grads seem to have inferiority complexes. You know, "Valpo is fine but it is no where near the Ivy league".  Clearly there are many areas of study at Valpo that are just "OK", but there are others that are every bit as good as institutions with much higher profiles.


Can't say that I am an expert on equipment and facilities in engineering colleges, but here are my impressions:

-The Don Fites addition is excellent space. The layout focuses on great working and lab space for students.
-Valpo is probably as good as most and better than many undergraduate programs for engineering facilities (equipment, etc.).
-Having a great piece of equipment or lab likely is only valuable to a small percentage of students. A solar furnace may make a real difference for a mechanical engineering student, but is likely to have a lot of value for an Electrical and Computer Engineering student (they would probably use it to try to make a pizza in 30 seconds). You need good equipment across all the disciplines, which I believe Valpo has for an undergraduate-only engineering school.
-Valpo is probably far short of schools like Purdue on engineering facilities, but that is not the main issue. I am sure that Purdue has some of the very best equipment, but it is prioritized for graduate work and Professors' research. At Valpo, the priority for all equipment and labs is for student learning.

usc4valpo

I was a EE grad. Comparing Valpo to Purdue or MIT is like comparing an apple to an orange. Valpo is a university for education, not research. My only issue was the limited, not as diverse  classes you can take senior year compared to the bigger schools. There is not much Valpo can do to accommodate this.

Again the mascot debate during these times is stupid. Time to get priorities straight.

wh

'95, 84v2, '72 and USC,
Your personal comments are much appreciated. I've already passed them on. A little more information is probably in order. First, both families are looking for a smaller private university for exactly the reasons you mentioned - a strong engineering program combined with a solid liberal arts foundation, the potential to build mentor/mentee relationships, smaller campus life experience, etc. BTW Purdue is great; it's just not the fit they're looking for. As to focus areas, the guys are interested in mechanical and computer engineering, respectively. They told me Valpo offers both.

valpopal

Quote from: usc4valpo on June 30, 2020, 05:42:16 PM
Again the mascot debate during these times is stupid. Time to get priorities straight.


Agree. At a time when unity is needed in the university community to deal with a financial crisis, let's instead introduce something divisive and costly!  ???

valpo64

I have had enough of these do-gooders!  They should be worried about doing their jobs better and more effectively.  I would guess that most of those complaining never go to a sporting event either...who knows.  The next thing they will complain about will be our colors.  Peddle your wares somewhere else because some of us are tired of your noise.  Sorry...I had to vent. :)

usc4valpo

Thank you - we have bigger problems than partitioning a mascot name. Let's get this university stable again.

mj

I'm seriously concerned about Valpo. I've heard the university needs to cut $25 million from its budget and that entire programs are on the chopping block.
I believe that we will win.

NotBryceDrew

When you say "I've heard" does that mean directly from an inside source familiar with the issue.

And TBH I could think of a few programs that provide little to no opportunity that removing wouldn't be horrible. Short term optics are of course different. 

crusader05

I haven't heard 25 million but I have heard that the university wants to make cuts now that will ensure that even if there is another resurgence of the pandemic they will not have to continue to make cuts through the years. That could lead to some severe cuts in the future. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if the board and had decided it was more comfortable being a smaller university instead of choosing to try to grow larger to ensure financial stability. Now it seems the best way to survive this time is to shrink and focus on what you do very well.

vu84v2

Taking the financial/budget impacts that have been released by other private universities and then adjusting for Valpo's size, $25M sounds too high. Add in that Valpo has already undertaken other cost mitigation moves (i.e. graduated temporary salary reductions) and it is really difficult to believe that the current budget shortfall is anything close to $25M. This, of course, assumes there are not any additional unexpected financial shocks (e.g., all students not being able to return to campus in the fall). My guess is that Valpo (like any responsible university) is planning what they would do in a "far worse" scenario...but not taking those steps unless it is absolutely necessary.

That said, pruning programs which have little demand is probably a good move.

wh

Quote from: crusader05 on July 01, 2020, 10:09:14 AM
I haven't heard 25 million but I have heard that the university wants to make cuts now that will ensure that even if there is another resurgence of the pandemic they will not have to continue to make cuts through the years. That could lead to some severe cuts in the future. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if the board and had decided it was more comfortable being a smaller university instead of choosing to try to grow larger to ensure financial stability. Now it seems the best way to survive this time is to shrink and focus on what you do very well.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I think it's pretty clear now that the university lost its way when your president rolled out a new strategic plan to increase enrollment to 6000 students. This came at a time when every indicator - declining population trends, increasing online competition, tuition increases outpacing the rate of inflation, student debt load, etc. - all pointed in the opposite direction.  They gambled the university's entire future on tapping into a burgeoning, lucrative foreign student market, which someone naively believed could be leveraged and sustained over the long term at a level of 2000 students per year.  IMO, this was a remarkable strategic blunder, the kind for which business case studies are produced and dissected in MBA programs.     

crusader05

It actually wasn't just Heckler's choice. He presented two options to the board and higher level admin. We need to either shrink a bit or grow larger because our current path was unsustainable. A majority of stake holders opted to grow there is more than enough blame to pass around for this situation and a lot of it has to do with board members and other Valpo people who long predated Heckler who missed the boat on this as well.

valpopal


If you haven't seen the poll Paul Oren conducted on twitter:

A Facebook group aimed at changing Valparaiso's mascot started up last week and more than 1,700 people joined in four days. Do you think Valparaiso should move away from the Crusader nickname?


Yes
18.7%


No
81.3%


475 votes ยท Final results

crusadermoe

Glad to hear that the 1,950 person "mascot" Facebook group voted 75% against the change.  Good.  That sounds like a group I would enjoy tormenting.

Anyway, the idea that the VU budget cut faces a $25m budget cut is likely a big exaggeration.  But...the CFO did publicly state a $9m operating defciit and that was pre-pandemic.   So it may have grown higher.  But $25m is highly doubtful.

Once again, WH nails the core issue succintly.  The leaders missed the 6,000 student target by about 2,000, kept all their overhead, and even added pointless positions like vice-provosts etc.   


Pgmado

To be clear, the poll I ran was on Twitter. The group with 2,000 people is on Facebook. I'm not sure there was a lot of crossover.

a3uge

What would they change it to? I think they'd have to have something decent and meaningful in mind before making the change, otherwise you end up with something stupid like "Golden Eagles."

valpo64

The "something stupid" thing is that they want to change the name.

vu72

Quote from: a3uge on July 03, 2020, 04:56:30 PM
What would they change it to? I think they'd have to have something decent and meaningful in mind before making the change, otherwise you end up with something stupid like "Golden Eagles."

How about "Bulldogs" ?Hardly anyone uses that one!   :rotfl:
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

valpotx

If it was ever changed, I'd be fine with going back to the Uhlan.  Definitely unique.  Heck, we're already on the Wiki for an Uhlan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uhlan
"Don't mess with Texas"

valpopal

FYI: Representatives of both the Student Senate and the Faculty Senate are preparing and circulating for signatures resolutions to be sent to President Heckler and the Board of Directors at the start of fall semester that demand removal of the Crusader.

crusadermoe